Why Propecia could ruin some peoples hair.

[Guest]

Hi guys,

I'm a pharm. reg. adviser in Australia who has become in recent years interested in the hair loss world. I myself suffer from hairloss, but merely don't take the cosmetic side to life very seriously, however I may be from the minority.

Upon reading different forums, I found many users complaining that DHT Inhibitors such as Propecia/Proscar etc was having the adverse effect on their hair, increasing thinning and shedding.

Typical responses to these complaints were "stick with it, your just shedding".

This is proving to me, to be untrue.

You see as you should know, receptor sites on the dem. of the follicle attracts DHT. DHT sends an immune signal, the hair is killed off and weakened for the cycle (in lamons terms).

So scientists and companies put their primary focus on DHT as the culprit. What shocked me was the fact they could of bypassed the sideaffects and headaches and gone after TGF-Beta instead, but since Proscar was out, hey little research for more gain.

What your not being told.. is this: (explained in lamons)

I recently injected DHT into pool-stream with a glisp of follicles. As expected the DHT attached itself to the receptor sites.

I ALSO injected Testosterone into the pool-stream. THIS also attached, and at a much rapid rate.

For some people, Testosterone is the culprit, DHT is a minor factor. And when you take a DHT inhibitor, your allowing more Free Test to roam your body. People taking these inhibitors were exceeding their max 750nL Free Test readings.. So if this is the culprit, your arming him.

I suggest people who aren't responding to finasteride, do a few things.

1. Get a blood test to test for
a. Your Free Test level
b. Your SHBG level
c. Your est. level

If Free Test is killing your hair, without the DHT factor, then a healthy diet will raise SHBG and lower your Free Test... The only solution is now Antiandrogens to beat the Free Test to the receptor sites.

Dr. Youseff Hamoud.

 

[Guest]

Just quickly in addition:

I noticed that "test affected" hair loss is seen more in diffuse hair loss.

I'd throw an estimate that 15 to 25% of hair loss sufferers should blame Test.

 

[Lucky_UK]

Hi

What Antiandrogens are we talking about?

 

[Guest]

Hi

What Antiandrogens are we talking about?

Topical spironolactone proves helpful. It attaches to the receptor sites and I'm in the middle of verifying whether it really does convert test to estrogen.

Vit B6 is good. Olineoic Acid is good. Azelaic acid is good. Zinc is mild-to-moderately good.

Theres a substance nicknamed RU.. thats great.

Licorice was meant to prove good.. still testing it.

 

[ripple-effect]

This is some pretty good information. What are you're thoughts on Revivogen...it has B6, Az acid, and zinc....seems to be staving off my hair loss so far. I felt like topical spironolactone cream made my hair line worse even though I didn't use it too long. I have diffuse hair loss. Do you recommened TGF-beta inhibition along w/ topical?

 

[Guest]

Revivogen seems in theory to be a strong case for hair loss.

I will be ordering some to test.

 

[ripple-effect]

Have you read the study on it?

 

[Guest]

I have.

But I also have a biasness against pretty much all unofficial studies. If it isn't registered with the Drugs Commission, not interested, I'll do the test myself.

 

[Aplunk1]

Rambo.

 

[bigblackattack]

The only solution is now Antiandrogens to beat the Free Test to the receptor sites.


And how exactly do I do that? I am 22 and was just about to ask my dr for Propecia. I have an awful receeding hair line.

 

[Guest]

The only solution is now Antiandrogens to beat the Free Test to the receptor sites.


And how exactly do I do that? I am 22 and was just about to ask my dr for Propecia. I have an awful receeding hair line.

Theres no telling what group you belong to. Before you jump on Propecia, I suggest you dedicate 4 to 6 months on Topical spironolactone, and just topical spironolactone alone.

 

[philly]

...

 

[IBM]

Youssef what do you think of oral spironolactone?

 

[ThaDude]

Dr. Hamoud, are you a physician? Out of interest, how can you be certain T is even binding to the same receptors? Even if it is the same receptor how do you conclude T even has the same effect in binding to receptors? How do you conclude this may mostly apply to diffuse hairloss? Since you are providing clinical advise are there clinical trials to support their significance? In any case thank you for sharing your findings and thoughts. I would be interested in obtaining reference to any relevant studies.

 

[Pondle]

I think Bryan has posted a few times that there are in-vitro experiments showing T can affect hair follicles directly. However, we still have the conundrum that 5AR-deficient men have normal or slightly-elevated T levels and don't appear to lose their hair.

 

[Nathaniel]

Finasteride has had an okay impact on my regimen but this is why I'm also considering a topical anti-androgen product like spironolactone or revivogen for added benefit.

 

[RaginDemon]

Hi guys,

I'm a pharm. reg. adviser in Australia who has become in recent years interested in the hair loss world. I myself suffer from hairloss, but merely don't take the cosmetic side to life very seriously, however I may be from the minority.

Upon reading different forums, I found many users complaining that DHT Inhibitors such as Propecia/Proscar etc was having the adverse effect on their hair, increasing thinning and shedding.

Typical responses to these complaints were "stick with it, your just shedding".

This is proving to me, to be untrue.

You see as you should know, receptor sites on the dem. of the follicle attracts DHT. DHT sends an immune signal, the hair is killed off and weakened for the cycle (in lamons terms).

So scientists and companies put their primary focus on DHT as the culprit. What shocked me was the fact they could of bypassed the sideaffects and headaches and gone after TGF-Beta instead, but since Proscar was out, hey little research for more gain.

What your not being told.. is this: (explained in lamons)

I recently injected DHT into pool-stream with a glisp of follicles. As expected the DHT attached itself to the receptor sites.

I ALSO injected Testosterone into the pool-stream. THIS also attached, and at a much rapid rate.

For some people, Testosterone is the culprit, DHT is a minor factor. And when you take a DHT inhibitor, your allowing more Free Test to roam your body. People taking these inhibitors were exceeding their max 750nL Free Test readings.. So if this is the culprit, your arming him.

I suggest people who aren't responding to finasteride, do a few things.

1. Get a blood test to test for
a. Your Free Test level
b. Your SHBG level
c. Your est. level

If Free Test is killing your hair, without the DHT factor, then a healthy diet will raise SHBG and lower your Free Test... The only solution is now Antiandrogens to beat the Free Test to the receptor sites.

Dr. Youseff Hamoud.

Testorsterone isn't the cause of hair loss, there is zero evidence to back up that theory, its been discussed MANY times here... where did you get your medical degree? lol

 

[abovedagame]

Hi guys,

I'm a pharm. reg. adviser in Australia who has become in recent years interested in the hair loss world. I myself suffer from hairloss, but merely don't take the cosmetic side to life very seriously, however I may be from the minority.

Upon reading different forums, I found many users complaining that DHT Inhibitors such as Propecia/Proscar etc was having the adverse effect on their hair, increasing thinning and shedding.

Typical responses to these complaints were "stick with it, your just shedding".

This is proving to me, to be untrue.

You see as you should know, receptor sites on the dem. of the follicle attracts DHT. DHT sends an immune signal, the hair is killed off and weakened for the cycle (in lamons terms).

So scientists and companies put their primary focus on DHT as the culprit. What shocked me was the fact they could of bypassed the sideaffects and headaches and gone after TGF-Beta instead, but since Proscar was out, hey little research for more gain.

What your not being told.. is this: (explained in lamons)

I recently injected DHT into pool-stream with a glisp of follicles. As expected the DHT attached itself to the receptor sites.

I ALSO injected Testosterone into the pool-stream. THIS also attached, and at a much rapid rate.

For some people, Testosterone is the culprit, DHT is a minor factor. And when you take a DHT inhibitor, your allowing more Free Test to roam your body. People taking these inhibitors were exceeding their max 750nL Free Test readings.. So if this is the culprit, your arming him.

I suggest people who aren't responding to finasteride, do a few things.

1. Get a blood test to test for
a. Your Free Test level
b. Your SHBG level
c. Your est. level

If Free Test is killing your hair, without the DHT factor, then a healthy diet will raise SHBG and lower your Free Test... The only solution is now Antiandrogens to beat the Free Test to the receptor sites.

Dr. Youseff Hamoud.

Testorsterone isn't the cause of hair loss, there is zero evidence to back up that theory, its been discussed MANY times here... where did you get your medical degree? lol

um mr. ragin demon,

before you go around criticizing other peoples degrees you should do some more research yourself. it has been talked about TONS about how other androgens (besides dht) affect hair. even bryan himself has stated this MANY times. if male pattern baldness were purely just a problem of dht attatching to receptor sites then avodart would be the answer to hair loss WHICH IT ISNT. so please do some reading before attacking this gentleman that has obviously done his homework on the subject.

To Dr. Hamoud, thank you, it's very refreshing to hear other takes on hairloss besides the anti-dht approach. Please keep us updated on your research/experiments.

 

[Dogs3]

dr,

i think thats interesting what you say about testosterone being linked to hair loss.

However, posting that propecia could ruin some peoples hair is a bit of a stretch, dont you think? Propecia is effective for the overwhelming majority of men. And i know people whine about not halting their hair loss or not being able to grow a full head of hair, but when i say effective i mean either helping slow down the balding process at the least.

Id like to see what bryan has to say about this too.

 

[Guest]

Dr. Hamoud, are you a physician? Out of interest, how can you be certain T is even binding to the same receptors? Even if it is the same receptor how do you conclude T even has the same effect in binding to receptors? How do you conclude this may mostly apply to diffuse hairloss? Since you are providing clinical advise are there clinical trials to support their significance? In any case thank you for sharing your findings and thoughts. I would be interested in obtaining reference to any relevant studies.

Great set of questions.

Test/DHT can only bind to one type (Rh-2) of receptors within the follicle. So you can't rule in a chance of similar action/wrong path.

I am a Pharm. Scientist with a PhD in Medical Science.

My diffuse hairloss conclusion is derived from the fact that diffuse hairloss thinners are of different nature than conventional male pattern baldness. When analyzing the dem. of a diffuse thinner follicle, it's rh-2 receptor sites were abnormally figured as compared to male pattern baldness. And when injecting Test into the culture, it seemed to "rendevous" with the diffuse thinning follicle quicker and in larger quantity than the dem. of the male pattern baldness follicle.

There are no clinical trials, because there is no funding. Theres alot you don't know in the medical world because it cannot translate to $$, and when it can't translate to $$, it's irrelevant.