Why Minoxidil Makes Your Scalp Itch

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IdealForehead

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Minoxidil works by increasing PGE2 levels, and PGE2 then stimulates hair growth (ref).

However, PGE2 is also a pro-itch mediator, and along with histamines directly increases skin itch (ref).

Probably adding a topical antihistamine like cetirizine or desloratadine would be the best way to counter this negative side effect. 1% cetirizine has also been proven effective in promoting hair growth at least in two small studies (ref, ref), so it shouldn't likely weaken the growth effect.

In some men, minoxidil itch may also be caused by irritation due to propylene glycol sensitivity. However, the point of this thread is that even if you do not have an issue with propylene glycol, it is normal to expect an itch with minoxidil, as that is an expected side effect of its mechanism of action.
 
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Trichosan

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IdealForehead said:
Minoxidil works by increasing PGE2 levels, and PGE2 then stimulates hair growth (ref).

However, PGE2 is also a pro-itch mediator, and along with histamines directly increases skin itch (ref).

Probably adding a topical antihistamine like cetirizine or desloratadine would be the best way to counter this negative side effect. 1% cetirizine has also been proven effective in promoting hair growth at least in two small studies (ref, ref), so it shouldn't likely weaken the growth effect.

In some men, minoxidil itch may also be caused by irritation due to propylene glycol sensitivity. However, the point of this thread is that even if you do not have an issue with propylene glycol, it is normal to expect an itch with minoxidil, as that is an expected side effect of its mechanism of action.
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Encouraging info IdealForehead. I wonder if it would be efficacious adding it to Minoxidil. Certainly it would not create adverse effects according to the studies. What would you suggest to make such a 1% solution?
 
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Trichosan said:
Encouraging info IdealForehead. I wonder if it would be efficacious adding it to Minoxidil. Certainly it would not create adverse effects according to the studies. What would you suggest to make such a 1% solution?
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As discussed in this thread:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...izine-in-alcohol-vehicles.66061/#post-1567807

Cetirizine has a potential for degradation in alcohol based vehicles. Although the studies did have some alcohol in their formulation, I am unclear of how much.

As a result, I have personally ordered some desloratadine powder from Alibaba and will be testing that instead. Desloratadine should be very stable in alcohol/DMSO. It also has a very long binding time to histamine receptors, so it is great for topical application. Ie. Each saturation of the scalp will last a long, long time.

Both are very safe over the counter drugs so shouldn't be an issue either way. I will be curious to see if it improves or solves the minoxidil itch.

Unfortunately, due to the issues discussed here:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ol-will-make-your-face-look-like-sh*t.109593/

I think the only long term solution with minoxidil is to not use it. It degrades collagen and has negative effects like puffy and dark eyes. That's a harder egg to crack. How to effectively replace minoxidil long term.

My best theory is that my final topical solution once I have full regrowth on minoxidil will be:

- 0.5% darolutamide
- 7.5% RU
- 5% niacinamide
- 2% GHK-Cu
- 1% desloratadine

Maybe that will do it. We will see. Still researching alternative growth stimulation pathways so I can more confidently ditch minoxidil. I'm looking into stemoxydine at the moment...
 
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yetti said:
Not for most users, it doesnt. Nor the other negative effects you talk about.
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Try taking it orally and you'll see what I mean pretty fast.

The problem with something that can create dramatic negative effects in high doses is it may very well create those same problems if taken in low doses for long term.

Maybe some guys can use Minoxidil 50 years topically and never have major cosmetic problems. I don't know.

I do know that if you take 5 mg orally twice a day for a few weeks, and you're anything like me, you'll see everything I'm describing clear as day.

For me that's good enough reason to stay away. I have no interest in any compounds with pro-aging effects. As discussed in the other thread, minoxidil's mechanism of action (inducing PGE2) is by definition pro-inflammatory and pro-aging.
 
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yetti said:
Where is it specified in the thread that this is what you're talking about?
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I've been posting hundreds of times in the past month. If you want my whole life story, knowledge base, and a comprehensive sense of where I'm coming from you'll have to read them all.

Again, this is based on the mechanism of action discussed here. If you've got any scientific grounds to refute the pro-aging mechanisms of minoxidil discussed therein, please share.
 
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yetti

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IdealForehead said:
I've been posting hundreds of times in the past month. If you want my whole life story, knowledge base, and a comprehensive sense of where I'm coming from you'll have to read them all.
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I want none of those things. But I, and I'm sure some others, not to mention potentially hundreds of people who will google a word and link to this thread specifically, have no clue that you're talking about 5mg orally twice a day, rather than, say, 1mg topically twice a day, if you don't mention it. Huge difference.
 
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yetti said:
I want none of those things. But I, and I'm sure some others, not to mention potentially hundreds of people who will google a word and link to this thread specifically, have no clue that you're talking about 5mg orally twice a day, rather than, say, 1mg topically twice a day, if you don't mention it. Huge difference.
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Nope. Studies showed topical use can be associated with a 2.4 to 5.4 mg systemic daily dose.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamadermatology/article-abstract/545803

But keep being obtuse and cherry picking sentences out of my posts to argue for the sake of arguing. Like you said, you want none of my knowledge or experience.
 
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yetti said:
Whatever dude. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with minoxidil.
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For me, this is about finding solutions that will preserve and enhance my skin's condition as well over the duration of the probably 50+ years I will be treating my baldness before I die. Minoxidil works well both orally and topically but it comes with certain potential costs. Thousands of guys have posted online about the problems of haggard faces and baggy eyes. I'm sure everyone will develop these problems at different rates. Maybe some won't at all. When you're talking about developing baggy eyes and haggard skin over the course of 20 years, then there is no objective way to be sure it is even the cause. Everyone gets older.

But the systemic absorption is proven fact, and the mechanism of action is definitely known to be pro-inflammatory and anti-collagen, so in an ideal world, we should in my opinion try to find treatments with similar results but none of these potential drawbacks.

I am still using minoxidil topically at ~4-5% but it is my goal to stop it as soon as I can. It isn't about immediate problems or hard times. It's about the long term.
 
yetti

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IdealForehead said:
Thousands of guys have posted online about the problems of haggard faces and baggy eyes. I'm sure everyone will develop these problems at different rates. Maybe some won't at all. When you're talking about developing baggy eyes and haggard skin over the course of 20 years, then there is no objective way to be sure it is even the cause. Everyone gets older.
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I think thousands is probably an exaggeration, but what is sure is that hundreds of thousands or millions take the product, topically and in much smaller doses than you're taking, never post about it and keep on buying it. The drug is sold everywhere, in every drug store in the USA and all over the world. What you see in this forum and the one or two other similar ones is an incredibly tiny population of nervous or dissatisfied people. I'm not saying that the side effects you describe are impossible (though many other members here would), but I will say that when you describe them as an inevitable result for most users of the drug you are confusing your own personal experience and guesswork with science.
 
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yetti said:
I think thousands is probably an exaggeration, but what is sure is that hundreds of thousands or millions take the product, topically and in much smaller doses than you're taking, never post about it and keep on buying it. The drug is sold everywhere, in every drug store in the USA and all over the world. What you see in this forum and the one or two other similar ones is an incredibly tiny population of nervous or dissatisfied people. I'm not saying that the side effects you describe are impossible (though many other members here would), but I will say that when you describe them as an inevitable result for most users of the drug you are confusing your own personal experience and guesswork with science.
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We have no long term studies on minoxidil and skin aging and never well. So theory and personal experience are the best things we have. I think the science backs what I am saying, what I have experienced, and what all those other men have posted online complaining about.

There is no known scientific mechanism by which minoxidil can improve your collagen. But there is a very well known scientific way by which it can destroy it.

That's as far as the science goes.

As for the doses, a 5% solution of 2 mL twice a day is equal to applying 200 mg a day to your scalp. And as stated, we also know from the science the amount that absorbs from that type of use is in the same range as the oral doses people often take for hair.
 
yetti

yetti

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IdealForehead said:
We have no long term studies on minoxidil and skin aging and never well. So theory and personal experience are the best things we have. I think the science backs what I am saying, what I have experienced, and what all those other men have posted online complaining about.
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A very, very small number.
 
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Trichosan

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I know. My insecurities and probably unfounded bias has vacuumed my wallet on various things over the years. I can afford it but a bit imprudent for sure. If you have a good analytical lab recommendation please let me know if you can. I have some bulk supplements I would like to get tested. PM me if preferred.
 
HairCook

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Minoxidil is terrible at penetrating so the avg minoxidil comes with PG which usually makes the scalp itch.
 
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