why isn't propecia the ultimate solution for male pattern baldness?

[cyberprimate]

what's missing in its action on male pattern baldness?

 

[bombscience]

what's missing in its action on male pattern baldness?

2 things.

1) It doesn't eliminate all serum DHT in your body.
2) DHT is not the only cause for hairloss.

 

[cyberprimate]

DHT is not the only cause for hairloss.

What are/would be the other causes of male pattern baldness?

 

[bombscience]

DHT is not the only cause for hairloss.

What are/would be the other causes of male pattern baldness?

Ah grasshopper, you have asked the question we don't know the answer to, and a key reason why nobody has found a cure for bladness. Whe dont know everything that causes it.

However most likely its other hormones suchs as testosterone, estrogen and the balance between them all

That and irritation.

 

[cyberprimate]

you have asked the question we don't know the answer to, and a key reason why nobody has found a cure for bladness. We dont know everything that causes it.

However most likely it's other hormones suchs as testosterone, estrogen and the balance between them all

From that perspective, what role has minoxidil in it?

 

[HairlossTalk]

Growth stimulation, and nobody is quite sure how or why it works, specifically.

That, in a nutshell, is an explanation of treating hair loss in 2004.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[Jack_the_Lad]

Even castration will not make a very bald man regrow all his hair, Which is where must of a man male hormones are produced from. This is why it is improtant to catch it early and not let it goo too far.

 

[cyberprimate]

Even castration will not make a very bald man regrow all his hair

i challenge you to find any studies proving this!

 

[VoRteX]

its true, but i'm too lazy to find "studies"

basically, once the follicles start miniturizing, they can only recover so much. Even if you eliminate all androgens from the body. This is where the immunilogical role of male pattern baldness plays a role.

 

[Bryan]

Even castration will not make a very bald man regrow all his hair

i challenge you to find any studies proving this!

I accept that challenge!! Here is an old post of mine from alt.baldspot:


From: Bryan Shelton (bryan@pointecom.net)
Subject: The effect of castration on hair-growth!
Newsgroups: alt.baldspot
Date: 1999/12/17

Guys, I found another very interesting study today that has profound implications for all of us, even though it's nearly 40 years old. This study supports what Dr. P has been telling us about the limitations of antiandrogens. The title is: "Effect of Castration in Adolescent and Young Adult Males Upon Further Changes in the Proportions of Bare and Hairy Scalp". James B. Hamilton. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, Volume 20, October, 1960. I'll give you the full abstract, and then some selections from the body of the article:

"A study of 21 adolescent and young adult males, before castration and for eight to eighteen years afterwards, showed that after orchiectomy there was no development of male pattern baldness (male pattern baldness) nor of any grossly recognizable denudation of the scalp. There was no expansion of bald areas in existence at the time of castration. At the end of the study the eunuchs, compared with intact males of similar age, exhibited a significantly lower incidence of male pattern baldness (P=.01) and had no further loss of coarse hairs in the pattern that in most males results in recession of the frontal hairline (P<.01). After castration, no increase in the number of coarse hairs was detected in bald or sparsely-haired areas of the frontal hairline. It is concluded that the remedial value of drastic reduction in androgenic stimulation is probably nil with regard to return of coarse hairs which have been lost along the frontal hairline in young men. In 3 men with baldness of the crown of the head at the time of orchiectomy, a limited increase in the number of coarse hairs occurred after the operation in 1 but not in the others. Further study is required to ascertain the potential for partial regrowth of coarse hairs in subjects with late-appearing forms of male pattern baldness involving the dorsum of the head."

And some selected passages from the body of the article:

"It was first necessary to establish that androgenic stimulation had been markedly and permanently reduced after orchiectomy. Studies of 15 of the eunuchs, including data obtained eight to eighteen years after castration, showed that androgenic stimulation had not only been markedly decreased but had remained so.
"The area of denudation did not increase after castration in any subject, regardless of the presence or absence of bald areas at the time of orchiectomy.
"Even the usual frontal and frontoparietal recessions of the hair line failed to appear in the 3 males who had been castrated at 15 or 16 years of age when they still had Type 1 scalp hair. Failure of hair-line recession to develop in these 3 males during the succeeding 16 to 17 years is noteworthy, since 94% of intact males would have acquired bare areas on at least the anterior scalp.
"The 14 males with small frontoparietal recessions at the time of orchiectomy did not acquire bare areas on the crown of the head or further extensions of frontal...recessions of the hairline.
"In the 3 subjects who had acquired male pattern baldness before orchiectomy no new nor expanded bare areas developed after castration.
"Regions of the scalp which are in the process of becoming bald, or are adjacent to bald areas, tend in intact males to be most susceptible to spread of baldness. The present observations clearly indicate that after castration such regions are no more prone to...male pattern baldness than are other portions of the scalp."

But the kicker is the failure of castration to regrow much, if any, hair:

"The failure to regenerate coarse hairs was as definite in subjects with slight recession as in those with more pronounced recession...
"The lack of regrowth of coarse hairs in areas of frontal and frontoparietal recession of the hairline could not be attributed to a prolonged interval between sexual maturation and castration, since the lack of regrowth was as absolute in subjects castrated at the age of 16 to 20 years as in those not operated upon until the age of 30 to 38 years.

And remember that of the three with balding in the crown, only one showed a little regrowth after many, many years.

"The present data are relevant to a previous report of 2 eunuchs who were bald when first seen by the author several years after their testes had been removed. In the years since the published photographs were taken, there has been no grossly recognizable addition to the number of coarse hairs. The period of time since castration is now 29 an 37 years, respectively.
"These studies of eunuchs indicate that, even in the absence of testicular secretions and of any detectable increase in androgens from extratesticular sources, regrowth of coarse hairs on the frontal hairline is nil if the hairs have been lost when the subject was young. Therefore in males who lose coarse hairs along the frontal hairline when young, anti-androgenic treatment probably has little remedial value.
"In contrast to the poor prognosis when male pattern baldness has been established in young men, prophylactic therapy might be rewarding. It now seems certain that castration entirely prevents development or extension of male pattern baldness."

Bryan

 

[cyberprimate]

cool post

... but depressing though. Unless there's a miraculous breakthrough I'll never get my temples back. Larger forehead forever.

Still you wrote:

of the three with balding in the crown, only one showed a little regrowth after many, many years

What happened to this guy's hair? Also why "after many, many years"? What would a product like minoxidil do to this man now? (i'm not expecting an answer)? And to the 2 other guys?

 

[Thinning]

Interesting read, since a lot of people here claim that hairs are never completly dead, they are just resting and they can be revived.

I read a story once of a bald guy who went to visit his insane brother in a sanitorium. His insane brother had been castrated ( they do that to keep them from jacking off and assaulting other inmates ) and still had a full head of hair.

So while some form of the male hormone is clearly the cause of male pattern baldness, reducing that hormone level doesent regrow that much hair ( as most of us propecia users have noticed ) unless used in conjunction with a growth stimulant like Minoxidil.

 

[Jimmy5000]

my grandfather was completely bald for probably 35 years when he started taking hormone related therapy for skin cancer a few years back. He started growing new hairs all over his head. It was rather amazing... He literally had to start cutting the hair on top because it was growing to full length.

 

[cyberprimate]

my grandfather was completely bald for probably 35 years when he started taking hormone related therapy for skin cancer a few years back. He started growing new hairs all over his head.

What!?!?!?!

What hormone was it? I suspect you're joking.