Why doesn't Rogaine add Azelaic Acid ?

[Life_sucks]

I've been reading quite a bit for last few days. And noticed positive things about Azelaic Acid.

Why doesn't Rogaine add maybe 2% Azelaic Acid if it'll be more effective?

 

[skyghost]

possibly because its not FDA approved?

i think azelic acid is more of an experimental addition to minoxidil.

 

[Bryan]

Why doesn't Rogaine add maybe 2% Azelaic Acid if it'll be more effective?

Simple. There's no scientific evidence that topical azelaic acid works as a 5a-reductase inhibitor (DHT suppressor, in other words) when applied to living animals.

 

[Life_sucks]

^ Ahh. Thanks Bryan and skyghost.

Bryan, I've noticed you make informative posts, do you mind sharing your regiment?

 

[sapinho]

I'm new on this forum but this isn't the first time I've seen (Bryan in particular) casting doubt on Azelic Acid. Not sure if he's casting doubt on its effectiveness or on the particular mechanism by which it is claimed to work (be it a DHT blocker, or whatever). My two cents... I was once in a situation where I was off my regimen for 6 months, scalp was red, and shedding. Azelic Acid cream was the only thing available. It stopped everything. No more shed. No more redness.

 

[Life_sucks]

^ I'm assuming Bryan is specifically referring to scientific evidence/studies, not going by random individual success stories.

It's just hard to know what works cause there are so many things out there, and everyone trying different things, some having success with certain things while others not, maybe it's best to just go by scientific/fda/clinical data.

For example I see that you use Grape seed extract and Homemade Spironolactona. I've never heard that before.

 

[sapinho]

I didn't tout by experience as scientific evidence, as I said, just my "two cents".

If you just want to go with FDA approved products, I'm sure that will work fine for you, but searching for clinical data on Azelaic acid would have taken all of 30 seconds and sort of negates your reason for asking the question on this forum if you're going to discount random individual experiences. FDA approved is a pretty short list, it's not that confusing.

That being said, yes, the actual clinical data on Azelaic acid is mixed (mostly against AA). Doing some searches, it's a pretty old topic on the forums. On one side you have Dr. Lee who doesn't give evidence but quotes his years of experience:

http://www.hairlosshelp.net/forums/...d=222754&parentid=0&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Branch

And on the other side, you have (to a large part) Bryan quoting 4 studies showing it does very little to reduce sebum production, the ensuing the debate that neither does finasteride, and Bryan admitting (tongue-in-cheek perhaps) that it's just his gut feeling:

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=54996

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=45020

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=54996

So you had some people saying it was blocking 98% of DHT, but I think most people have moved to a more realistic conclusion that it's a weak blocker at best. Despite being a popular ingredient for so long, there still aren't any clinical studies, only theories as to how it might work (which include theorized anti-fungal/bacterial properties, etc).

With regard to Grapefruit Seed Extract, I'm not using this to grow hair, it's only to (theoretically) provide a cleaner scalp (ant-yeast, anti-bacterial) which 'could' contribute to reduced inflammation (a theorized mechanism of how the hair root is destroyed). If you trust *individual experience*, you can wet two identical rags, one with plain tap water, one with tap water with some drops of GSE included. Wait a few days and see which one smells worse. ...Junk science perhaps, but easy to do.

 

[Life_sucks]

^ I appreciate the references, very informative.

The issue is that all the links are old (2004,2005,2008). There is so much new information, I was hoping there is something new and 'concrete'. I did google alot but gave up cause I couldn't find any recent info.

After doing more thinking, and after reading one of your links, it just might have to do with the business side. I guess there are no 'patents' for mixing in AA.

The marketing effective aspect about Rogaine is that it's fda approved (they invested the money for it). If they wanted to add AA then they'd have to invest money to get it fda approved OR sell it without fda approval (which is not their business model).

Which leads me to believe that Rogaine R&D team doesn't believe AA has significant effectiveness, hence can't justify investing for trials/fda approval.

Just my 1 cent, I could be wrong :dunno:

PS. I am curious what Rogaine will come up next.

 

[knowingyou]

With regard to Grapefruit Seed Extract, I'm not using this to grow hair, it's only to (theoretically) provide a cleaner scalp (ant-yeast, anti-bacterial) which 'could' contribute to reduced inflammation (a theorized mechanism of how the hair root is destroyed). If you trust *individual experience*, you can wet two identical rags, one with plain tap water, one with tap water with some drops of GSE included. Wait a few days and see which one smells worse. ...Junk science perhaps, but easy to do.[/quote]

Can you please tell me how do you use GFSE? Do you mix it with water? If so, would you be so kind to tell me the ratio of the mixture, ie how many drops in how many ml of water? Thanks in advance!!

 

[sapinho]

The GSE I buy actually comes with instructions for a so-called "scalp rinse", in which 5 to 10 drops are mixed with shampoo and rubbed into the scalp. I prefer to 5-10 drops that I simply run through my wet hair after I shut the shower off, occasionally I'll mix some some in with a moisturizer.

Whether or not it's capable of reducing microflora is unknown (similar to the theorized mechanism of Nizoral killing lipophilic microorganisms Malassezia and Stapkvlococcus in the infundibulum). Likely not, but my idea is to simply provide a cleaner scalp since I often sweat and sometimes use a hat (I live in the Northeast of Brazil).

EDIT: Though initially ignoring the reports of chemicals in GSE due to complete lack of people reporting toxic effects, I am now going to abandon GSE.

On the issue of GSE containing benzalkonium chloride (highly toxic) or if it was mistaken for diphenol hydroxybenzene (active ingredient and quaternary compound from Grapefruit Bioflavonoid), I find the idea of more than one manf using toxins too much of a conspiracy to believe. However, the fact remains that diphenol hydroxybenzene is not exactly 'natural' and I have some doubts as to its effectiveness for inflammation topically.

 

[knowingyou]

The GSE I buy actually comes with instructions for a so-called "scalp rinse", in which 5 to 10 drops are mixed with shampoo and rubbed into the scalp. I prefer to 5-10 drops that I simply run through my wet hair after I shut the shower off, occasionally I'll mix some some in with a moisturizer.

Whether or not it's capable of reducing microflora is unknown (similar to the theorized mechanism of Nizoral killing lipophilic microorganisms Malassezia and Stapkvlococcus in the infundibulum). Likely not, but my idea is to simply provide a cleaner scalp since I often sweat and sometimes use a hat (I live in the Northeast of Brazil).

Thanks for your information. I used to mix it with water, and sprayed it on the scalp after washing hair. I do not know if it helped. I think I will pick up a new bottle and try it again for a longer time.