Why Are Credible Posters Optimistic About Shiseido?

[nameless]

Shiseido is doing phase 2 studies so IMO their technology can't possibly contain solutions to the problems standing in the way of a breakthrough. Since they're starting phase 2 that means their technology has already gone through phase 1 and that means their technology is at least 1 1/2 years old. That means their technology goes back to a time when they were still fighting with hair inductivity problems.

Plus, it's my understanding that Shiseido's technology is the same crap that Replicel ran through a clinical trial a few years ago and produced dismal results.

It looks to me like Shiseido is another Aderans. And Aderans failed bad because they didn't have solutions to some technological problems.

If I'm wrong will someone please tell me why I'm wrong. I would like some hope that Shiseido might produce a breakthrough treatment.

 

[luiza]

I think Shiseido ia far from being a cure, unfortunately.
Replicel has always been very responsive to emails, which gives them some credibility but in my opinion the results from their trials were very poor in terms of regrowth.

 

[That Guy]

The primary goal of this treatment is to stop further hairloss. If it does that, it is a success and in combination with conventional transplants or pre-balding immunization, it would be a cure for a great many.

Also, Aderans' treatment was successful in stopping further loss, but did not achieve regrowth, which was their desired outcome. They didn't really fail as much as they just gave up and stopped funding the project.

 

[KO1]

I don't think any credible posters are optimistic on Shiseido. These Replicel jokers managed to swindle Shiseido (a company with zero expertise) into providing a cash injection. Now that cash injection can be used to do some actual work which may be of use, but that is a long road.

#TrickoscienceLOLWUT

 

[GoldenMane]

This is the Dermal Sheath cup cell injections right? What technological barriers exist? It actually sounds like a very straightforward process. The only remotely challenging part is replicating the cells before the injection.
I have t seen the results but I never expected it to cure baldness, I do expect it to rejuvenate shrinking hair follicles and restore then to full health so that they can be making maintained for a lifetime with finasteride

 

[Folliman]

Phase 1 trials were for safety, they were not testing efficacy, so their "poor results" are understandable. Phase 2 results will be the turning point for this company.

 

[nameless]

Phase 1 trials were for safety, they were not testing efficacy, so their "poor results" are understandable. Phase 2 results will be the turning point for this company.

One problem is how can they get the injected cells into the follicle at the right spot on the follicle?

Also, I think that the only way to improve over the dismal results achieved by Replicel is to do repeat follow-up injections, say perhaps once a month or something like that.

 

[Gone]

I think even if it worked perfectly you would need to reinject after however many years anagen lasts. Then again that's not too massive a burden in my opinion. I'd love to think that replice/shiseido work, but I just don't know.

 

[mghrs]

It is based on solid science. they grew hair with this method on mice in areas no hair is supposed to be. they tested it on human for safety and disappointing results(if you call it this way) but achieved efficacy and now they have to test the required dose for a cosmetically significant results. after this trial we can judge them. it is more reasonable to believe in them than Brotzu Lotion. It is not 1 year old technology it is 16 years old but biotechnology isn't computers and phones. they don't evolve as quickly. 16 years is pretty young in biotechnology. think about it, it is not just hair loss that is nt being cured. it is also diabetes, cancer , HIV and the list can go forever

 

[Roberto_72]

I don't understand why some people are eager to try out PRP (which I did twice, and the doctor did not even suggest when I should do it again: "in a couple of years?" he shyly murmured) but are not willing to try out Replicel because "it has to be repeated".
Everything as of today needs repetition, even hair transplants.

 

[Dench57]

RepliCel and Lee Buckler are a joke tbh. But Shiseido are not. With their resources, the fact they are conducting a P2 trial right now is encouraging. The hair counts from the P1, like 10% growth or whatever? This isn't a treatment for regrowth, it's for maintenance. If those subjects are still at or above baseline 1-2 years after the injections then that would be a functional cure for countless millions of men.

 

[Folliman]

One problem is how can they get the injected cells into the follicle at the right spot on the follicle?

Also, I think that the only way to improve over the dismal results achieved by Replicel is to do repeat follow-up injections, say perhaps once a month or something like that.

I believe this was covered in hellouser's interview with them.

 

[luiza]

Some people here are saying it will be a good maintenance treatment. But if you watch their video you'll see that guy going from no hair to a full head of hair. So they either failed very badly in terms of regrowth or they were just fooling us, like most companies do.
I hope I'm wrong and that they can actually provide a lot of regrowth, not only maintenance in the efficacy trials.

 

[KO1]

^"good maintenance treatment" is what they're going to claim if they fail to grow cosmetically significant hair. Truth is, nobody knows, especially not Replicel

 

[nameless]

RepliCel and Lee Buckler are a joke tbh. But Shiseido are not. With their resources, the fact they are conducting a P2 trial right now is encouraging. The hair counts from the P1, like 10% growth or whatever? This isn't a treatment for regrowth, it's for maintenance. If those subjects are still at or above baseline 1-2 years after the injections then that would be a functional cure for countless millions of men.

The problem with maintenance is that you can't tell if it's working for years after you start using it.

 

[Gone]

You could determine its effectiveness by examining the expression of the androgen receptor in the treatment affectes follicles and comparing it to the donor follicles. They should be the same. I wonder if they've done this yet? Or if they haven't and don't, maybe they don't want to because it would expose them

The thing is, the dermal papilla is known to have androgen receptors, which is directly connected blood vessels. So I don't see how even theoretically it could remove the androgen receptor problem, as it only changes the dermal sheathe cup cells.

 

[jc3303]

The problem with maintenance is that you can't tell if it's working for years after you start using it.

This is supposed to return follicles back to healthy normal function, so you'll be able to notice thickening of pre existing hairs. It will strengthen and maintain existing hairs indefinitely but no one knows if or how many new hairs will result from treatment.

 

[nameless]

So basically Shiseido is up in the air for now but the treatment they're using (Replicel's treatment) did not grow a lot of hair during phase 1, although phase 1 was a safety study.

That phase 1 by Replicel sure seems like a long time ago. It kind of looks like Replicel could be stringing investors along. I wonder if Shiseido regrets buying into Replicel.

 

[KO1]

Even though Phase 1 is technically "safety"....they are still watching for efficacy here. Companies need to show promise even in P1 trials.

 

[barfacan]

Fun fact: There are no so called 'credible' posters on here.