When will there be a cure for male pattern baldness?

[Pray The Bald Away]

Resurrecting threads from a decade ago is just about the dumbest f***ing thing you can do. We knew nothing about hair multiplication or the mechanics of stem cells. And for God's sake, if you're past a NW3.5 just shave your head and quit being a soft pussy. Being bald isn't stigmatized like it used to be. Every second man on the street is suffering from significant hair loss. There are millions of women and at least one will want you and your ugly bald mug.

 

[abcdefg]

That's not true, you can stop and get f*cked indefinitely. Obviously you are not informed. Health to me is more important than my physical looks.

Your not a statistical numbers kind of guy are you? More an emotion based person. From a pure numbers stand point getting major sides short term at least is like playing poker and expecting to get a royal flush on first couple hands.

 

[M.G]

abcdefg You're feeble attempt to portray me as a person whose reason is plagued and influenced by emotions is in vain. I have finished psychology and political philosophy and have 7 years of experience working with group and individual therapies. But if you have to ask I'm more of a common sense person. If you read all of these reports of side effects happening to people on finasteride it's common sense to question yourself if it's really worth it.

Your poker allegory is not a good one, as of 2016 nobody knows who will get hit by irreversible sides and who won't, no statistics have been done obviously. You would want the statistics to be like your poker allegory because that's psychologically comfortable place to be, but unfortunately for you and me it has no foundation in the reality.

Since you're a psychologist, what is your opinion on SSRIs?

Considering the considerably higher percentage of sexual side effects compared to finasteride and that SSRIs got their own version of PFS.

Not baiting or anything, just curious considering SSRIs are far more prescribed than finasteride and one of the most prescribed drugs in the world.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

abcdefg You're feeble attempt to portray me as a person whose reason is plagued and influenced by emotions is in vain. I have finished psychology and political philosophy and have 7 years of experience working with group and individual therapies. But if you have to ask I'm more of a common sense person. If you read all of these reports of side effects happening to people on finasteride it's common sense to question yourself if it's really worth it.

Your poker allegory is not a good one, as of 2016 nobody knows who will get hit by irreversible sides and who won't, no statistics have been done obviously. You would want the statistics to be like your poker allegory because that's psychologically comfortable place to be, but unfortunately for you and me it has no foundation in the reality.

I would say it's more like a Russian Roulette than Poker.

Russian Roulette with 100 slots and just 2 bullets. Worth it for some, not for others.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

I won't, and you won't too. You haven't lived with someone who wears a wig your whole life, I've seen the damage it does.

Your plan is unrealistic, and you're not even balding that much anyway, you'll probably keep a NW2 until your late 40's.

Enjoy your life as a fullhead while pretending that physical appearance doesn't matter and how you want hair for your self-love.

Negative for you, realistic for others. You'll find out by yourself soon enough. I'll go back to my parents' basement now.

You live in your parents basement?

 

[Rambo69]

I won't, and you won't too. You haven't lived with someone who wears a wig your whole life, I've seen the damage it does.

Your plan is unrealistic, and you're not even balding that much anyway, you'll probably keep a NW2 until your late 40's.

Enjoy your life as a fullhead while pretending that physical appearance doesn't matter and how you want hair for your self-love.

Negative for you, realistic for others. You'll find out by yourself soon enough. I'll go back to my parents' basement now.

Wow. Dude, you need see a psychiatrist. You are ****ed in the head. Wigs do damage and finasteride doesn't? This forum is full of lunatics.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

I don't think it's a coincidence that those who report "sides" also happen to be people who seem to exhibit some degree of anxiety disorder or neurosis.

Unfortunately the guys screaming the loudest usually(not always) fall into this category.

 

[M.G]

I'm not a psychiatrist and thus not proficient with anti-depressants since only psychiatrists can prescribe medication therapy. That being said I have experience with SSRIs and it is known they have low libido side effects.

Higher percentage or not doesn't dismiss the fact that finasteride may cause permanent side effects. Makes you wonder if the changes in the hormones in the brain are changing the structure of the neurons in such a way that they are interfering with how we normally process orgasm and libido.

- - - Updated - - -

SSRIs are prescribed much more than they are really needed in my opinion. Again, it all comes down to big pharmaceutical companies paying psychiatrists to prescribe new medication to patients. Anti-depressants can't cure depression if the underlying psychological cause is not resolved through therapy.

Alot of psychologists have very good knowledge on SSRIs and their effects. I'm currently doing my social work internship in the socialpsychiatry section of the social services in my country. I talk with our two psychologists everyday and our psychodynamic one is very negative towards SSRIs, mainly because of 1. the high percentage of side effects and 2. conflicting reports of their effectiveness.

Yet, despite the considerably higher percentages of sexual side effects and with their own version of PFS (PSSD), noone is advocating for a ban on SSRIs. The number of people affected by PSSD seem to be in the same rate as PFS, despite SSRIs being more common than finasteride. That makes me think that these people that get PFS/PSSD simply had the genetical disposition of being getting this condition.

And I think you're wrong stating that finasteride can cause irreversible side effects. I know your intentions are good, but the way you formulate some of your points are not very objective. The scientific and objective way to write that would be persistent side effects, not irreversible or permanent, which is fear-mongering since there is just not enough studies on the subject to claim that and many PFS-victims have shown improvement or recovered fully. And we must have in mind that many PFS-victims have also been on other drugs, notably SSRIs which can cause the same symptoms!

 

[M.G]

You are using logomachy to prove your point. How long do side effects need to last to call them persistent and when do you start using the word irreversible? Are side effects that are after 8 years not subsiding irreversible or persistent? There are people that have not got well even after 10 years. So I am now fear mongering because I've used the word irreversible and not persistent. Maybe the best term would be long term or very unlikely reversible. Whichever of these words feel you more comfortable since you are a finasteride user yourself. Doesn't change the fact that in some cases these side effects don't go away after a very long time and this people were healthy prior to using it. There are not enough studies because they are self funded and nobody is interested in funding them. Which makes this issue even more concerning.

That's what's on the packaging. Persistent side effects. Why? Because as I said, as long as there is no sufficient studies on the condition, never been reported on the previous ones, and cases of people becoming better or recovering, you just can't say "irreversible side effects". If you want to stretch it - it should be persistent or irreversible side effects.

Whichever words makes me feel better because I'm on finasteride? Really? You wanna go to that kind of level? Mister "Oh I just get a wig, problem solved!
"

Go check out propeciahelp. Go read the threads. Check how many people who claim they got a anxiety-condition or such, not necessarily caused by finasteride, I would sincerely be shocked if a decent number of them wasn't on SSRIs or on other drugs. Especially considering how easy doctors prescribes those kind of drugs these days.

If I'm not mistaken, one of the suicide-PFS cases, the guy was even on other drugs who have serious side effects. We don't know what kind of lifestyle these people were living, what other drugs they've been on, what doses they took, health conditions etc.

Alot of the studies didn't do the side-effect reporting in the right way. True. However, all those studies still point to the same kind of numbers. No outliers.
Even on the dutasteride and 5mg finasteride-studies, which I heavily doubt were influenced by interests considering their limited market potential compared to 1mg finasteride, all reported the same kind of numbers. And they were much higher doses.

 

[mr.patches]

"We don't know what kind of lifestyle these people were living".
I've been using finasteride for 1 year and a half now, and all I can say is I have never felt any better. Then again, I'm a very active person. I don't take benzos, or do recreational drugs in general, rarely drink alcohol and I work out virtually every day, and when I'm not, I'm either hiking or surfing.

@Vincent777 Would you say I have the exact same chances of having PFS, as someone who, say, eats cheerios on his basement all day while masturbating and playing video games?

Completely anecdotal, I know, but my cousin Sergio has been on finasteride for about 12 years now, he's 35 years old, and he is a trainer part time. Unlike myself, he didn't even experienced any sides in the beginning stages of starting treatment, and most importantly, he has his hair intact. Quite frankly, I'm hoping to be in his place a few years from now and have most of my hair while I can.

I want to look good (call me vain for all I care), and I am glad I found these forums, if not I wouldn't ever discuss this issue with my cousin in the first place and I wouldn't ever started treatment. Thank goodness, we have plenty of examples of people who have been able to recover fully, just as we have the people who claim having their lives destroyed by finasteride, and quite frankly, I think a big part of it comes down to lifestyle and eating habits. I can reference physicians who would agree many of the finasteride-"related" sexual dysfuction issues may be genetic predisposition, and the individual lifestyle, for example, rather than actually being because of finasteride.

 

[hellouser]

Cure will come when privileged fullheads have snatched up all the women to themselves leaving baldites with nothing or scraps.

 

[megatron1234]

Cure will come when privileged fullheads have snatched up all the women to themselves leaving baldites with nothing or scraps.

Basically when all baldites will not reproduce anymore. We need to assemble.. Baldites vs Fullheads. 2 factions, only one will survive. The war begins.

 

[megatron1234]

Firstly, you have no statistics to prove your claim. Secondly, considering the number of people who self-report on the net, the percentage who suffer "irreversible sides" is very, very small when taking into account all the people who take finasteride. Don't forget that finasteride isn't just used by Androgenetic Alopecia suffers - it's been prescribed for 25 years for people with BPH, and at 5x the dose as used to treat Androgenetic Alopecia. That's millions and millions and millions and millions of people around the world who are taking or have taken a much higher dose, and have been doing so longer than Androgenetic Alopecia patients. Since that's the case, why didn't this "syndrome" show itself earlier? And how many people belong to sites dedicated to "irreversible" sides from finasteride? 10k? Less? There are only 3800 members on Propeciabelp's forums. Even if there are 10x that many people who get irreversible sides, that's an infinitesimal number when you consider how many people take finasteride (.008% if 5m take it world-wide, and that's a low estimate of finasteride users given that 40% of all men suffer BPH by age 50). Does it cause some sort of syndrome? Maybe? But it's clear that very, very few people suffer that, and that's a fact. So there are my statistics - where are yours? I mean, "shame on" me? Shame on you for peddling your fear mongering and turning so many off a safe, effective treatment.

To those rational readers out there, the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor that you won't experience any sides, much less "irreversible" ones. And given the alternative - going bald - it's a no-brainer. It's a real shame that so many have been scared off due to the fear mongering on these sites - so many more could have kept so much more hair if they just considered the real data.

Might I let you know that some people look good even with AA. I can consider myself one.. I am still able to pick up girls some of them find us baldites sexy lol

 

[Roberto_72]

Food for thought. There is literally a race going on with hair multiplication. Same thing happened with the people that discovered HIV. Us versus the French. Anyway, we aren't going to hear little triumphs along the way because they would give the other teams insights into what's going on.

Frankly, the quieter the scientists get about it, the more encouraged we should be. It could be they are very close and being very quiet about it so that there's no risk that they won't be the first ones to come out and hit the news with it. Because the first team that does it, is going to have an ONSLAUGHT of media, press, and interested parties.

I have no medical background and no knowledge of what's to come but from my media and PR background, I think its close guys. If you do the research, read the background articles and the statements by various doctors, something's brewing.

I find this post (dated 2005) particularly funny because the poster was so enthusiastic that he had this idea there was an international race (US versus France) to invent the cure to baldness. I think it was a tie in the end

 

[Dench57]

You're changing your statements from a post to post. First you said if you experience sides just stop and you'll be fine and now you say well, some people won't be fine. I'm not even going to bother to answer you. And nobody shamed you, don't know where did you read that.

There has never been any causal relationship established between finasteride and permanent side effects though. Thats not to say there might be a link established in future, but for now there isn't, and the permanent sides that are anecdotally reported cannot be explained by science. So you can't claim it as fact that finasteride causes irreversible side effects.

I personally do believe it causes a higher incidence of sides than 1-2%, and I do believe it can cause persistent, but probably not permanent sides. But these are my beliefs, not facts.

For most people, its a risk worth taking. You should realise from being on this forum thats its more than "just hair bro", it's quality of life.

 

[nate30]

... the permanent sides that are anecdotally reported cannot be explained by science. So you can't claim it as fact that finasteride causes irreversible side effects...

I don't think people should obsess too much over the distinctions between "persistent", "permanent", "irreversible" when considering whether they want to risk taking the drug. There may not be solid evidence that Finasteride in and of itself leads to epigenetic changes that cause irreversible side effects, but such changes are not a prerequisite for men to suffer "persistent" consequences from taking finasteride. Take steroid users, for example. Some men can run a cycle, then come off (with or without PCT) and be just fine in terms of their body picking up where it left off. Other men come off and have their testes "permanently" shut down regardless of PCT drugs, and be forced to resort to life long TRT. The fact remains that ANY hormone altering drug carries with it a certain amount of risk.

 

[JoseSmith]

Don't believe well see a cure for 10 years. Treatments make more money than cures.

 

[Roberto_72]

Treatments make more money than cures.

I don't agree. If there were a cure, every balding person would try it and would pay big dollars for it. Today most balding guys interrupt treatments because said treatments are difficult to evaluate and don't work for everyone.

 

[dralex]

Damn just realized this thread was created in 2005. And like everyone thought a hair loss cure was like 5 year away. Man I would be shocked if it was even 5 years from today.

 

[Hairon]

There isn't going to be any cure in our life time