when is it time to say goodbye to the research section?

[badnewsbearer]

I am wondering, I have been following this section for the past 5 years. I remember being in college and getting hyped up about histogen or the Italian hair loss potion. super stoked about the final breakthrough that is replicel. finally tsuji. as everyone here knows it is quite incredibly how often one can be let down. in my case I think this has really fucked with my ability to accept my situation. the constant glimmer of hope on the horizon that you can just never really grasp.

I think right now however, the time for being hopeful even considering most things never work out is quite grim. the only thing on the horizon is pyrilutamide and thats really about it though. in my personal case I have become so jaded after experimenting with everything.

I did a round of 4 attempts to try oral finasteride. always got severe sexual sides from it. then tried topical same sides. I tapered down to 0.01%, the mazzarella dose and got sexual side and significant ED on it. it is so frustrating. I look at the research section and there is just nothing exciting. Kintor is the only company that has been doing some kind of work on that front and they are working only with anti androgens. without having tried it myself, based upon online reports I am almost certain that I will be getting sexual side effects on that drug as well because of my sh*t baseline hormone profile. I dont understand how I am so sensitive to it and I cant do anything about it to make it more tolerable

I wonder truly if there is anything to even look forward to. a maintenance drug that does not give sexual side effects, truly? anybody else feel like lurking here and hoping prevents them from acceptance?

 

[kiwi666]

Why am I not surprised you wrote this.

Maybe just shave it all off and move on with your life.

 

[Aston]

I tapered down to 0.01%, the mazzarella dose and got sexual side and significant ED on it

That's actually explainable. What kind of solution were you using? Any chance you got any in your mouth? From the study a 0.005% solution of finasteride with a decently penetrative alcohol solution had no detectable impact on body DHT. However anything higher theoretically would.
Finasteride is not actually dose dependent. Meaning that in serum it either works at full capacity or doesn't. The point of taking a micro dosage is to ensure it doesn't go any further than what reaches the androgen receptors, because almost any amount of finasteride in the blood stream will tank your serum levels.

The effective microdosing study with no detectable serum changes was 0.005mg in alcohol solution. As you can see 0.01mg topical will still have detectable serum effects. Especially if you mix it yourself or try to dilute a higher concentration solution, you might be still overdosing yourself.

 

[badnewsbearer]

That's actually explainable. What kind of solution were you using? Any chance you got any in your mouth? From the study a 0.005% solution of finasteride with a decently penetrative alcohol solution had no detectable impact on body DHT. However anything higher theoretically would.
Finasteride is not actually dose dependent. Meaning that in serum it either works at full capacity or doesn't. The point of taking a micro dosage is to ensure it doesn't go any further than what reaches the androgen receptors, because almost any amount of finasteride in the blood stream will tank your serum levels.
View attachment 183516
The effective microdosing study with no detectable serum changes was 0.005mg in alcohol solution. As you can see 0.01mg topical will still have detectable serum effects. Especially if you mix it yourself or try to dilute a higher concentration solution, you might be still overdosing yourself.

i would argue that it is dose dependent just that the dose response curve is extremely steep. the study your refer to actually used 0.005% twice a day so 0.01% and that is why I used this protocol. I dont think anything got in my mouth but I used a minoxidil ethanol solution which might have more of a penetrative effect. ill measure my dht soon so ill know how much went systemic. we also need to consider that much of the solution is in the hair or does not penetrate the outer most layer of the skin so of that 0.01mg applied topically only about 20%(based on what doctors say) enters the system so about 0.02mg which should based on the graph be around 25%? but could be 35 or 15 based on the body, anything between 50 and 5

 

[Adam23]

finasteride/Min combo already work for most people. It's just it gives sides for many. The topical alternatives may help decrease those.

We have two Kintor products on the way which may have little to no sides. Which is great for those whom can't tolerate finasteride. The other one, GT20029, is much stronger androgen receptor degrader and maybe only need to be applied once a week or two. That would be the best thing to happen. Combine that with Keto shampoo and Min and we should have a great alternative to finasteride/dutasteride.

I am also wondering where is Breezula.

 

[clarence-forgotpassword]

finasteride/Min combo already work for most people.

That's what people tend to think for a number of years, however, 10 years later on finasteride/Min, there will be some thinning, and you're gonna have to come to terms with that or get a transplant. That's not just my own experience, you can google numerous statistical entries on baldingblog.

 

[Aston]

i would argue that it is dose dependent just that the dose response curve is extremely steep. the study your refer to actually used 0.005% twice a day so 0.01% and that is why I used this protocol. I dont think anything got in my mouth but I used a minoxidil ethanol solution which might have more of a penetrative effect. ill measure my dht soon so ill know how much went systemic. we also need to consider that much of the solution is in the hair or does not penetrate the outer most layer of the skin so of that 0.01mg applied topically only about 20%(based on what doctors say) enters the system so about 0.02mg which should based on the graph be around 25%? but could be 35 or 15 based on the body, anything between 50 and 5

If you measured DHT before, post the new measurement if you can. To have clear proof it affects serum DHT on the 0.005mg ethanol solution with min would be pretty useful. The study detected no serum change with that protocol.
I quote from the abstract:
The clinical outcome, in terms of both hair regrowth and balding areas reduction, seems to be encouraging, in the absence of either any evidence of percutaneous absorption of finasteride, or local/systemic untoward effects.

That said, i experienced horrible sides from turning a tablet of finasteride into dust, dipping a needle in the dust and licking the needle afterwards, so i believe you above the article...

 

[Flamingflaps]

That's what people tend to think for a number of years, however, 10 years later on finasteride/Min, there will be some thinning, and you're gonna have to come to terms with that or get a transplant. That's not just my own experience, you can google numerous statistical entries on baldingblog.

The studies don’t agree with this. Yes you can have thinning at 10 years, but not everyone will.

 

[yadayada029]

That's what people tend to think for a number of years, however, 10 years later on finasteride/Min, there will be some thinning, and you're gonna have to come to terms with that or get a transplant. That's not just my own experience, you can google numerous statistical entries on baldingblog.

Can confirm, this is the truth. We need a real solution, not promises and bandaids. There are also people who are not candidates for hair transplants, at least not as they currently do them: because of poor donor areas, too much loss and not enough donor hair, risk of shock loss, or all of the above.

 

[Dar]

Can confirm, this is the truth. We need a real solution, not promises and bandaids. There are also people who are not candidates for hair transplants, at least not as they currently do them: because of poor donor areas, too much loss and not enough donor hair, risk of shock loss, or all of the above.

It sucks but what are ya gonna do..???? I have heard the same promises over and over for over 30 years when I was just a teen reading the newspaper back in the day. Than internet news. After all these years nothing has changed except guys poking the hell out of their scalps till it bleeds, hoping to get A few thin hairs back.

 

[badnewsbearer]

If you measured DHT before, post the new measurement if you can. To have clear proof it affects serum DHT on the 0.005mg ethanol solution with min would be pretty useful. The study detected no serum change with that protocol.
I quote from the abstract:
The clinical outcome, in terms of both hair regrowth and balding areas reduction, seems to be encouraging, in the absence of either any evidence of percutaneous absorption of finasteride, or local/systemic untoward effects.

That said, i experienced horrible sides from turning a tablet of finasteride into dust, dipping a needle in the dust and licking the needle afterwards, so i believe you above the article...

your dust anecdote sounds like placebo. there are numerous not just one study that show that under 0.001mg finasteride does not reduce dht one bit, licking a needle is probs in the nanogram category. we are talking about single molecules here probably lol. look at a needle after putting it in a powder, nothing is on it. body will get rid of it in hours.

 

[coolio]

You can reduce the dosage of Finasteride in a practical way by spacing out the doses. Take it every other day or every 3rd day, etc.

The drug washes out of your system pretty fast. But that's not the critical factor for how long the effect lasts. It takes a lot longer for your body to replenish the supply of 5ar enzyme (after it gets knocked down by a Finasteride dose).


Either way it's not going to beat the basic compromise that Finasteride offers. Preserve more hair = get more severe side effects. No amount of diddling with dosages will get around that.

Some people definitely handle the drug better than others. But that's a product of genetics. If you are genetically born to have severe side effects from Finasteride, then cutting the dosage down to a half or a quarter won't make you stop having sides. It will just give you half or quarter of the sides + half or a quarter of the hair protection.


So, pick a compromise dosage that you can live with and get on with your life.

And be on the lookout for side effects mounting up over time. Many, many guys didn't think they were getting much side effects from Finasteride until they quit the stuff. They were a frog in a pot of gradually boiling water.


And if you decide to quit the stuff, I STRONGLY suggest you taper off as gradually as possible. Break the pills down smaller and spread out the dosages more & more over a period of weeks/months. It's the best way to help your body start getting back to normal.

 

[clarence-forgotpassword]

The studies don’t agree with this. Yes you can have thinning at 10 years, but not everyone will.

You're just too lazy to google the numerous charts on baldingblog. Whether we should consider baldingblog reliable, that's another subject.

 

[Flamingflaps]

You're just too lazy to google the numerous charts on baldingblog. Whether we should consider baldingblog reliable, that's another subject.

I don’t need to Google any blog, I’ve been on the drug for 15 years. And I’ve read the studies.

I’m not saying people won’t have some thinning over the years, and I do see that you didn’t say the drug was totally useless after an initial honeymoon period. My response was probably a little inflammatory, I just see a lot of people believing that finasteride is useless after some time and I’m trying to provide some balance.

 

[Thor9]

That's actually explainable. What kind of solution were you using? Any chance you got any in your mouth? From the study a 0.005% solution of finasteride with a decently penetrative alcohol solution had no detectable impact on body DHT. However anything higher theoretically would.
Finasteride is not actually dose dependent. Meaning that in serum it either works at full capacity or doesn't. The point of taking a micro dosage is to ensure it doesn't go any further than what reaches the androgen receptors, because almost any amount of finasteride in the blood stream will tank your serum levels.
View attachment 183516
The effective microdosing study with no detectable serum changes was 0.005mg in alcohol solution. As you can see 0.01mg topical will still have detectable serum effects. Especially if you mix it yourself or try to dilute a higher concentration solution, you might be still overdosing yourself.

I'm quite sure the chart you are showing is for oral finasteride, not topical; it also omits the placebo which is misleading. Here is the full chart - serum DHT reduction with 0.01mg oral finasteride is not clinically significant compared to placebo:

 

[badnewsbearer]

I'm quite sure the chart you are showing is for oral finasteride, not topical; it also omits the placebo which is misleading. Here is the full chart - serum DHT reduction with 0.01mg oral finasteride is not clinically significant compared to placebo:

View attachment 183519

this is funny because my 0.025% topical with 20% of it going systemic based on studies is equal to a 0.02mg oral intake. 0.01 has no clinically AND statistically significant changes in DHT and I have severe sexual side effects on 0.02mg. although if we look at the confidence interval it might be lower for the 0.01 and higher for the placebo. it fluctuates daily anyway. I cant imagine why in my case a 20% drop in dht causes such severe erectile dysfunction to the point I cannot use my dick anymore at ALL when DHT and testosterone fluctuate daily more than that even. I feel exactly as I did on 1.5mg oral even though I only take a little more than 1/100th of that dose now. not sure what to even make of this

 

[SnortingFin]

this is funny because my 0.025% topical with 20% of it going systemic based on studies is equal to a 0.02mg oral intake. 0.01 has no clinically AND statistically significant changes in DHT and I have severe sexual side effects on 0.02mg. although if we look at the confidence interval it might be lower for the 0.01 and higher for the placebo. it fluctuates daily anyway. I cant imagine why in my case a 20% drop in dht causes such severe erectile dysfunction to the point I cannot use my dick anymore at ALL when DHT and testosterone fluctuate daily more than that even. I feel exactly as I did on 1.5mg oral even though I only take a little more than 1/100th of that dose now. not sure what to even make of this

Have you tried other options rather than finasteride?

Fluridil? Alfatradiol? CB0301?

 

[Redgate]

you've been here 5 years, tried to use finasteride 4 times and you never thought to use RU or CB?

 

[badnewsbearer]

you've been here 5 years, tried to use finasteride 4 times and you never thought to use RU or CB?

no because thats not easy to get in my country, it'd probably get confiscated and id get a high fine

 

[badnewsbearer]

so I have been sticking with the 0.025% topical 1.2ml daily in a ethanol pg vehicle with 3% minoxidil. the sexual side effects have been quite intense for me which sucks. I have hope more form this experiment. but honestly the sides as just as pronounced as on oral finasteride. makes no sense to me as yes, it goes systemic but I should see less DHT reduction then on oral. I wish more people would participate in trialing this stuff because thats far more realistic then to have a new research chemical(that does not work on the androgen pathway) work as well as finasteride.

barely anyone has done proper bloodwork to investigate if the studies are even accurate and 0.01% in ethanol does actually not affect serum DHT, cant imagine it does not at this point. also based on the polichem study I should see 35% reduction in DHT compared to the 60% on oral so a much smaller systemic effect. then I wonder why the sides aren't even milder at all in my case. just feel like I take the 1.25mg orally at this point.
would anybody be interested in blood work to see what's going on? or has everybody given up on making topical finasteride work and have moved on to research stuff that will not work either?