Whats next after propecia fails?

[Fallout Boy]

I've been on propecia for over 1 year 6months and my hair has done nothing but steadily get worse. I don't know if propecia helped slow things down or what but I need to do something else.

Would you guys suggest adding something else to help combat DHT??
If so what should i use?

I'm going to be starting minoxidil within the next few weeks but do you guys think I need somthing else to combat dht since finasteride isn't cutting it? Or am i pretty much screwed if finasteride isn't helping me?

 

[ShedMaster]

i would recommend copper peptides. my personal favorite is, without question, folligen. lasts a long time and not very expensive either.

 

[CCS]

here's my advice

Stay on Propecia, whatever you do (unless you get dutasteride, avodart, but read up on the risks on that and consider squirting it in your minoxidil). Propecia has stopped you from loosing it much faster. You will see a big, non-reversable fall out if you get off Propecia. Add minoxidil to your regimine, using between 2 and 5%, depending on what you can handle. I read from a reliable source that copper peptides don't work. There is plenty of snake oil out there for deperate people like you. An anti-androgen is much better. Most anti-androgens are well studied and used for prostate cancer treatment but carry the similar side effects as Propecia because they reduce testosterone or block it's ability to bind to receptors. spironolactone and Flutamide are some of them. RU 588something was another that grew hair well but was too strong and too stable and went systemic and caused side effects and was discontinued. Flutamide is great for hair but even topically 16% goes systemic and causes side effects. your best bet is Eucapil, I think. Its molecular stucture is very similar to Flutamide, but it breaks down in the blood stream if it leaves the scalp fat. Do a google image search and see how it look similar to one side of testosterone, and how DHT looks similar to testostone, and how finasteride and dutasteride all look very similar, and you will understand how these chemicals compete for docking sites.

 

[hairhaircomeagain]

I wonder why is Eucapil not discussed much in this forum. Did someone mention that it was a scam ??

 

[ShedMaster]

Re: here's my advice

I read from a reliable source that copper peptides don't work.

Any links to this stuff or did he call you on your mickey mouse phone?

Please note that this is same person who said

Folligen has minoxidil in it, the only good ingredient.

So you might just want to take this opinion with a grain of salt.


:freaked2: :freaked:

 

[Bryan]

Would you guys suggest adding something else to help combat DHT?? If so what should i use?

First of all, keep taking the finasteride. Second of all, I think ShedMaster's suggestion of adding copper peptides is a good one.

How much money do you have to spend on all this? If money isn't an issue, you might even consider adding Proxiphen (either prescription or non-prescription).

Bryan

 

[Guest]

've been on propecia for over 1 year 6months and my hair has done nothing but steadily get worse. I don't know if propecia helped slow things down or what but I need to do something else.

Would you guys suggest adding something else to help combat DHT??
If so what should i use?

Stop using finasteride!

-Start using topicals like revivogen or crinagen with spironolactone(topical)
-arginine
-grape seed extract
-minoxidil 5% if you have no problems with it or topical arginine.
-vitamin B complex
-a glass of soy milk everyday if you have no intestinal problems

Do you have sex/masturbate a lot?

 

[Felk]

've been on propecia for over 1 year 6months and my hair has done nothing but steadily get worse. I don't know if propecia helped slow things down or what but I need to do something else.

Would you guys suggest adding something else to help combat DHT??
If so what should i use?

Stop using finasteride!

-Start using topicals like revivogen or crinagen with spironolactone(topical)
-arginine
-grape seed extract
-minoxidil 5% if you have no problems with it or topical arginine.
-vitamin B complex
-a glass of soy milk everyday if you have no intestinal problems

Do you have sex/masturbate a lot?

This is the reason i said you were a big tool, in the other thread. please stop scaring people off finasteride, without providing reasons.

Also, the sex/masturbation link has been discussed to death.

Also, soy milk is not proven to help with male pattern baldness either, its a subject of debate.

 

[Guest]

Music23 wrote:
Quote:
've been on propecia for over 1 year 6months and my hair has done nothing but steadily get worse. I don't know if propecia helped slow things down or what but I need to do something else.

Would you guys suggest adding something else to help combat DHT??
If so what should i use?


Stop using finasteride!

-Start using topicals like revivogen or crinagen with spironolactone(topical)
-arginine
-grape seed extract
-minoxidil 5% if you have no problems with it or topical arginine.
-vitamin B complex
-a glass of soy milk everyday if you have no intestinal problems

Do you have sex/masturbate a lot?


This is the reason i said you were a big tool, in the other thread. please stop scaring people off finasteride, without providing reasons.

Also, the sex/masturbation link has been discussed to death.

Also, soy milk is not proven to help with male pattern baldness either, its a subject of debate.

Felk are you saying to me what I should talk about and what not. Frankly I don't give a ..... what you think.

Finasteride has been discussend a thousand times. Does that mean nobody should discuss it anymore.

I have provided reasons for why people should not use finasteride.

Go read about soy milk and you may learn something.

 

[rockinreel]

veteran

Listen to the seasoned veteran's like me and others. I'm 39 yo and been using products for 6 years. Made mistakes, and here is what works.

You have to use 3 different products.
Propecia ( I use finpecia, it's about $50 cheaper a month)
Minoxidil (I use Kirkland's, saves about $20/month ordering bulk)
Folligen (the cheapest copper-peptide)

Some form of all three of those ingredients are the most recommended.
Propecia will not do it alone, nor will any lone product work.

good luck
rockinreel

 

[Felk]

Re: veteran

Listen to the seasoned veteran's like me and others. I'm 39 yo and been using products for 6 years. Made mistakes, and here is what works.

You have to use 3 different products.
Propecia ( I use finpecia, it's about $50 cheaper a month)
Minoxidil (I use Kirkland's, saves about $20/month ordering bulk)
Folligen (the cheapest copper-peptide)

Some form of all three of those ingredients are the most recommended.
Propecia will not do it alone, nor will any lone product work.

good luck
rockinreel

What if you can't handle finasteride?

Sadly, a regimen without finasteride is a hard one to come up with...

 

[Felk]

Elaborating on my previous post:

Once finasteride has failed, or you cannot tolerate it, even at small dosages, your options appear to be limited to these:

Topical finasteride or dutasteride - the effectiveness of these, i have no idea
Topical antiandrogens.
spironolactone - some backing, in hirsutism studies at least, but generally very poor user feedback, very cheap however if you make your own.
Fluridil - not any independent backing, but supposedly flutamide safely used and therefore effective, however very expensive.
RU - most powerful antiandrogen, very good clinical backing, however not availabe in anything apart from a raw chemical, so no product quality control, you have to mix your own, and very expensive.

After one of these shows signs of maintaining your hair, then add minoxidil to give you an extra boost. That's my plan, if i can keep my patience.

Anyway, im out to find the best finasteride replacement too, so I will delve deeper into this...

 

[rockinreel]

finasteride

Geez, if you can't take finasteride, I don't know. I wish I couldn't take it sometimes. I feel it kills my libido.

I'm certainly not the expert, and you will get mixed answers. If I couldn't take finasteride, I would personally take this regime:

Minoxidil
Copper peptide (folligen or tricomin)
Revivogen
And maybe some other form of DHT blocker, but that's already alot of massaging in the scalp. Gives you two to stimulate regrowth and two DHT blockers.

Your hair will fall out more at first, you will regrow that hair and hopefully more (but not all of it), and this happens about 3 times in a year, then you are maintaining what you have. You know this after about 9 -12 months b/c when you are massaging products in your head, your fingers aren't full of hair, or the drain isn't stopping up with hair anymore. Don't look in the mirror all the time.

 

[CCS]

the source that said copper peptides don't work was from a body builder column writer who had done his own research. Yeah, I know that is not a reliable source. He said that back in 1998, people thought that copper peptides would be the miracle cure, but that later, in 2005, people knew from buying them that they were not and did not and were qustionable. That is why I thought they did not work. At the end of his column, though, they were on his list of drugs to use.

Since then, I've read more about them and think that by themself, they are as good as minoxidil, but in combination with other drugs, they grow additional hair and fight the hairloss process from a different angle. For that reason, I bought proxen-N from dr proctor. It has copper peptides and other stuff in it.

 

[CCS]

If propecia is not working, that means two things:

Your follicles are sensitive even to the reduced DHT levels, in which case you should use topical spironolactone as well.

And

The hair loss process has already been kicked off by DHT, and now no longer needs DHT to progress. In this case you need copper peptides and and minoxidil and arginine and other stuff to fight the other aspects of the hair loss process. Even getting castrated won't stop your hairloss.

 

[Felk]

I have no idea whether finasteride was working for me, as i onyl used if for a month or so, but i coudlnt tolerate the sides.

I had strong chest and abdomen discomfort and pain, and its gone since stopping.

So now im trying to find something else, and it's very hard. Its pretty much spironolactone or RU as far as antiandrogens, as if you're not on finasteride you will want to use minoxidil twice a day sometime, and fluridil can't be applied within 8 hours of anything else. spironolactone has such a bad user response, and RU... who knows? Oh and im not really considering revivogen or crinagen here.

So in my opinion the best plan of attack is topical finasteride/dutasteride and an antiandrogen, as long as you can tell if you're getting systematic absorption.

 

[Fallout Boy]

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm continueing to use finasteride. Even though My hairloss is progressing I think it might have slowed it down.

I think my next step is going to be to order minoxidil. 500 from Dr.Lee and grab some cheap generic minoxidil from walmart to use with 500.

Isn't spironolactone in cream form? How easy is that to apply to your entire head if you have a decent amount of hair still? It's just starting to get thin.

What's something in liquid form that I can apply topiclly that will help reduce DHT in the scalp? minoxidil / Retin A?

I don't think I would use Fluridil because people have mixed feelings about it. not sure if it actually works. And probably not topical dutasteride. or Topical finasteride.

Oh and by the way I'm currently in college and money is an issue.
So anything cheaper is going to be more realistic for me to afford each month

 

[rkim]

I think I'm going to try revivogen. If someone (like me) got sides from finasteride would it be risky to use Rvivogen? I'm thinking of using folligen as well. It this a good combo to add to minoxidil? How the hell do you apply all this stuff!!! I hate applying minoxidil! Now 2 mope!!

 

[Shielded]

You should have been using minoxidil 5% as soon as you started the Propecia. The sh*t really works wonders.

 

[techprof]

fallout boy shop for cheap minoxidil.
walmart in my city doesn't sell equate minoxidil.

sams club sells 4 months supply for 20 bucks.