What tests prior to Propecia

[Esprit]

I read a while back about the blood tests you should have prior to taking Propecia.
What do you ask the clueless doctors to look for and check?

Can you tell me what they were please and what advice you give to people before taking it.

Do most of you get blood test before taking it. Other than hair, obviously, are there any benefits to this drug whatsoever?

 

[Esprit]

OK, so nobody answers me on the Rogaine forum either, but I thought someone on here would help me out. It's not like none of you take it is it?

 

[MJUK]

Presumably you're thinking of hormone tests.

Just go for.

Total testostrone
SBHG
Free-testostrone
Estrogen (E2)
DHT

Have it done on the morning after a good nights sleep.

 

[Esprit]

Thank you, what can be done if and when you should need these results?

 

[Wuffer]

It's probably a good idea to get these tests done just in case. However, I don't see any true benefit to getting these done. The intent of having these baseline tests is so that if, by an unlikely chance, you end up with persistent problems after taking Propecia, you will have an idea of what your hormones *should* look like. If you choose to take hormone replacement therapies, you will have some scores to shoot for, should your hormone levels be way lower than when you started.

However, from what i've seen, even the people with persistent problems have more or less the same hormone levels before and after Propecia. DHT production almost always returns more or less to normal (I say more or less because hormones regularly fluctuate dramatically throughout the day). There is actually a doctor (Dr. Crisler) that examined blood and urine samples of people that have had persistent problems after taking Finasteride, and he wasn't able to find anything unusual about their hormone levels. So that being said, I don't see a benefit to baseline hormonal levels, but as a 'just in case' it wouldn't hurt to get them done regardless.

 

[Ende]

It's probably a good idea to get these tests done just in case. However, I don't see any true benefit to getting these done. The intent of having these baseline tests is so that if, by an unlikely chance, you end up with persistent problems after taking Propecia, you will have an idea of what your hormones *should* look like. If you choose to take hormone replacement therapies, you will have some scores to shoot for, should your hormone levels be way lower than when you started.

Drawing some blood to map certain hormone levels before you begin treatment with Propecia is very important. If you don't, you'll be fucked if you develop PFS, because you won't have any evidence. Since you mentioned Dr. Crisler - this is something he agreed about. Sadly, he thinks that Propecia won't get attention from the authorities before more people begins to kill themselves.

Everyone should test LH, FSH, testosterone (total and free), estrogen, prolactin and SHBG - even if they're currently using the drug without any problems. The side effects may creep upon you, and you won't probably notice it before it's too late.

However, from what i've seen, even the people with persistent problems have more or less the same hormone levels before and after Propecia.

Wrong. Most people don't have baseline values. One guy from Portugal, who I've been speaking with, was diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism based on baseline values and new blood tests - and you don't see any true benefit?

DHT production almost always returns more or less to normal (I say more or less because hormones regularly fluctuate dramatically throughout the day). There is actually a doctor (Dr. Crisler) that examined blood and urine samples of people that have had persistent problems after taking Finasteride, and he wasn't able to find anything unusual about their hormone levels.

Dr. Shippen, who's one of the most respected endocrinologists in the world, said this;

I have become aware of a growing number of young men who started to take propecia for male pattern baldness. After relatively short intervals these men develop full symptoms of hypogonadism: decreased libido, sexual dysfunction, ED, fatigue, gynecomastia and depression. Testing shows low T and DHT, high E2, low or normal FSH/LH and normal prolactin.

What is really troubling is the lack of response to T replacement, clomiphene stimulation, HCG injections. There may be significant increase in T after various methods of increasing it, but the response in all areas seems to be lacking entirely!

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt ... f=22&t=537

 

[Esprit]

So from blood test results, how can it be righted if it's been wronged by Propecia?
Do they give you more drugs to right the hormones after?

I wish I hadn't looked at Propecia Help!!

Suicides, and acne, brain fogs, and weight gain, as well as your appendage becoming redundant!

Geez, what a minefield, and leakages of Finasteride into the brain?

This is bonkers now http://www.propeciahelp.com/

Do you guys take anything with it to combat any of these symptoms, a natural substance?

 

[Ende]

Yeah, but what you need, depends on the blood test result. However, an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex is the most important tool when it comes to PFS. It blocks enzymes which converts testosterone to estrogen, and thereby decreases the estrogen level and increases the testosterone- and DHT level. This shifts the testosterone/estrogen ratio, which is critical for normal functions, in favor of testosterone again. That said, Arimidex is very potent, and it's easy to overdose. Too low estrogen level causes some nasty side effects as well, like no libido, impotence, aching muscles and joints, lethargy etc.

To use Propecia as safe as possible, you should map those sex hormones before you begin treatment, and quit treatment IMMEDIATELY if you lose your morning erections and get softer erections. Be aware if your testicles begins to ache.

 

[Esprit]

Thanks for that, A few things...

You say quit when morning glory not up, and also ball ache, but doesn't everyone say they get the ball ache in the first week or so.

Mapping the hormones, will do what, tell docs what's changed by finasteride, and what can they do about it? Is it a drug thing. My worry is my GP is absolute rubbish

 

[Ende]

You say quit when morning glory not up, and also ball ache, but doesn't everyone say they get the ball ache in the first week or so.

FYI, aching testicles weren't reported during the Propecia trails. It means that estrogen is raising and suppressing your testosterone production. The secretion of LH and FSH gets reduced, and this causes your testicles to shrink - and that's what causes the pain.

Mapping the hormones, will do what, tell docs what's changed by finasteride, and what can they do about it? Is it a drug thing.

Yes.

 

[Esprit]

Thanks for all your help, have you had a 'bad' experience on it or..?

 

[Ende]

You can say so. I developed PFS.

 

[Esprit]

Sorry mate, are you OK now?

PFS come in a lot of different forms, and what treatment?

If you get the ball pain in the first few days is that always a bad sign of things to come do you think?

 

[Ende]

No, I'm not. I'm still struggling to stabilize the condition for some reason, but I know that I'm on the right track. I've been using Primoteston Depot to treat hypogonadism, Arimidex to treat estrogen dominance and DHT deficiency, Dostinex to treat hyperprolactinemia, Andractim to get rid of gynecomastia, Cialis 2.5 mg to treat NO/cGMP deficiency - and I've experimented with some other treatments as well. I'm currently experimenting with Primoteston Depot, Cialis 2.5 mg (I may switch to large doses of L-arginine), and a progesterone cream.

Aching testicles are a warning sign that shouldn't be taken lightly. I'll say it again; it wasn't reported during the Propecia trials, and neither was hypogonadism. DO NOT follow Merck's advice about continuing treatment despite of side effects. That's dangerous.

 

[Esprit]

That's rough mate, I don't know why more people haven't commented on this thread as it goes. You can't be alone. How long ago did you stop them and how long were you on them for?

 

[Ende]

There are several other people on this forum. Mew, Mens Rea, Joe-1991, monty and Propecia to mention a few. Propecia screwed me over within 4 months. That said, I noticed side effects from the first pill, but I continued using them because Merck states that the side effects are likely to subside during treatment - and in worst case, I could just quit the treatment, and everything would be normal within 2 weeks. Yeah right. 3 months and 3 weeks after my first pill, I was impotent, and my chest was hurting like hell, because the breasts were growing. I had a lot of other problems as well. I couldn't take it anymore, so I quit the drug - but things didn't return to normal. I've seen the new leaflet, and they're now stating that you should see a doctor immediately if you get breast pain. Merck knows that Propecia is able to induce hypogonadism, but they're doing everything they can to keep this quiet, and they're trying to blame everything else but the drug, when people are complaining about persistent side effects after quitting the drug.

 

[Esprit]

I am still at a loss.. I'm in my 40s now and still wondering....whether to go for it or not. The mega depression of hair falling out, and believe me that's never to be taken lightly, it's horrible, against the mega depression of problems from Propecia? Which way to jump?

And if as we're led to believe it doesn't stay in the system after 24 hours, it's done a blinding job on people who are off it and still suffering?!

 

[Ende]

Propecia alters your endocrine system. It doesn't matter if the drug has a half-life of 6 hours. Its effects will last for more than 2 weeks. Other changes, like shrunken prostate, may take a lot longer to recover.

It's your decision. I wouldn't have touched the drug with a 10 foot pole if I knew everything I know today. Its effect on bioavailable testosterone, neurohormones and the ability to induce a complex case of secondary hypogonadism is just too much, especially when all it does for your hair, is to slow down the balding process. You'll still go bald while using Propecia - so is it worth it? Hell no.

 

[Esprit]

I'm at a loss.... what's the answer? I am so depressed about it as it is, so the depression won't be alien to me anyway. I may try it for a week or so. I remember Saw Palmetto affected down below when I tried that a few years back so...

Stupid question but shrinking prostate doesn't have effects on your waterworks does it, I know it's not a shrinking bladder but does it make a difference?

 

[Ende]

Yeah, urine may drip for a while, after you're finished urinating. Many people have reported this. The prostate's pressure on the urethra helps prevent this. That's why bulking agents like botox may be used as a treatment for incontinence. I'm not sure if they're treating men with this, but they're treating women. Finasteride was originally marketed as Proscar - as you probably know. It's used to shrink the prostate in cases where it's enlarged (this causes a lot of pressure on the urethra), so the men can urinate properly again.