What Just Happened?

[supo]

I've been Dr. Lee's regimine of Xandrox Nightime 5% (plus Retin A, Azaelic and Beta) for many months. I am also taking Proscar.

I upped my dosage of Proscar to 5mg per day about a month ago. I used to take 2.5mg per day.

Since then, I've been growing new hair on my scalp that was dormant for several years.

BUT!!!!.....The problem - in the crown where the swirl is to the lump area on the skull - I've LOST hair. It's very similar to what happened when I went on Xandrox 12%. When I switched back to 5% Xandrox, it grew back.

Can you tell me if this is "shedding" or permanent loss. I don't quite understand how my hair is growing on the top of my head, losing it in the crown by virtue of a simple increase of 2.5mg to 5.0mg? Is it permanent loss or will it grow back? "If" it grows back, how long will it take to do so? I'm really nervous.

Also, I seem to have "itchiness" pretty bad where the pattern begins. I put Xandrox all over my head, but the itchiness is always in the beginning of the pattern area where it's thinning.......almost as if I'm "burning away" hair follicles. It seems as I've been balding, it itches where I'm losing hair.

 

[Cornholio]

Im glad to hear that those changes are growing back some hair, as I just bought a couple of products from dr. Lee (the 12.5% lotion and xanadrox with retin-a). While the plain xanadrox 5% is excellent the retin-a containing stuff and/or the 12.5% burned the crap out of my forehead (truely a "chemical peel") with the first use. I wonder if that has something to do with what you are feeling, though I dont know why it would be so localized. I will try the two separately, spaced by a few days but am pretty certain that the retin-a component was the source of my burning. It works by exfoliating the superficial skin, helping minoxidil absorb better. If that isnt it the higher concentration Xanadrox may be irritating rather than helping. While retin-a may help minoxidil work better I cant believe that anything that causes the scalp to feel worse can be good for your hair. An Idea might be to use the retin-a containing stuff less frequently and in smaller quantities, if at all. If that doesnt help stick with the %5 xanadrox. . Also, look at the shampoos youre using... ?Nizoral. As before, if treatments leave you itching or burning that could be inflammation, which doesnt help hair loss... Something (above) needs to be changed or is missing from your regime. I really doubt the change in dose of finasteride had much to do with what you are discribing as it should only help the vertex. Some people have had good results regarding itching/inflammation with either nizoral or tricomin.

 

[Johnny24601]

re:

Hair cycles take many months, how are you sure what product is doing what? Visual assessments are not exactly the most scientific approach. Due you have detailed photos of you progress?
Why are you taking so much finasteride, that is a health risk in my opinion. Long term and even shorter term effects are far less studied for higher daily doses of finasteride. The 1 mg dosage has been studied and even that comes with a risk of side effect.

 

[supo]

My normal routine was:

2.5 mg proscar (per day)
Xandrox Nighttime (5%) with Retin A, Beta and Azaelic Acid (1x per night)
Topical Avodart (1X - 2X per week - skip Xandrox that day).

I changed to 5mg because I used to be on it (in 1992) and my hair on my head grew back very well - but, I never had a shed before. I just went with experience.

Now, I will say this, last night, I had hair there (I'm being honest) and when I used Nizoral today and got out of the shower, the hair was gone. We're talking about the very fine hair that "starts" at the pattern. I have it shaved to peach fuzz because I wear a hairpiece at times. The fuzz is gone - total skin. Last night it was there. This morning it's not. I'm not blaming Nizoral (or should I). I'm only thinking that the change of 2.5mg to 5mg is causing this because it's the only thing I changed (except the Nizoral). The STRANGE thing is - hair on the top of my head is growing and it's been non-existent for a couple of years. The reason I'm concerned though is I don't want my pattern to get bigger.

I experienced this same problem when I went from Xandrox Nightime (5%) to the 15% Xandrox. I quit it immediately and went back to 5% and the pattern solidified and grew back to what it was before.

If this was "shedding", had I kept with the 15% would I have been better off? Is it possible that it's just too toxic or shoud I just assume it's working like it should (shedding). The thing is - on 5%, the hair on my head doesn't grown (top), so I'm just wondering I'm guessing it's a shed, but this is why I'm here - to find out if anyone has had a similar experience. I'm sorry, I have no pictures, but I'm a Norwood 5ish.

 

[nooc]

Isn't 2.5 mg per day way more than is recommended and/or required?

 

[Cornholio]

Isn't 2.5 mg per day way more than is recommended and/or required?

More than 80% of the benefits (by haircount increase) of the 5mg dose finasteride were obtained by using 1mg. So, the company chose to market a 1mg pill to minimize possible side-effects by giving the lowest possible dose. Increasing dose 5x to 5mg. has marginal effect on hair count (maybe 20% more) in the studies. However, he said he did better with 2.5mg, and the 5mg dose is used daily by many many men for BPH (benign prostatic hypertrophy) with minimal side-effects (so its safe).

 

[supo]

So, what does that mean for my situation with the shedding. Do I stay on 5mg or go down to 2.5 or ?

 

[nooc]

Isn't 2.5 mg per day way more than is recommended and/or required?

5mg dose is used daily by many many men for BPH (benign prostatic hypertrophy) with minimal side-effects (so its safe).

I understand that men with BPH take the whole 5mg dose, but for hair maintenance, 2.5 mgis too much. All he should be taking is the 1mg, right?

 

[socks]

I take 2.5 mg of Finasteride every 3rd day.

Remember two things guys:

1. a mg is a SUPER small amount. The Proscar/Propecia pill is 99% filler! Going from 1mg to 2.5 mg is so small your mind can hardly comprehend that amount!

2. Finasteride has a fairly flat response level... 1mg lowers DHT to a level very close to that of 5mg... For most men 1mg should be enough... However, some men, depending on their androgen sensitivity, could benefit from a small increase in 5ar inhibition.


Supo,

Do you think it might be possible that the hair that "disappeared" is not the result of increasing the finasteride dose or Nizoral but rather the effect of the shed you just went through?

On the positive side I have heard atleast one guy claim that he would go through sheds where he almost went slick bald in the thinning areas only for it to eventually come back thicker.... If you look into the 5yrs Finasteride study you would see that Finasteride does seem to create a synchronization of hair into the anagen phase. When this phase comes to an end and the hair enters the telogen phase there would be a serious dip in hair counts until the hair re-enters the anagen phase.


I have a question for you:

How well would you say Finasteride has been in maintaining your hair over the last 13yrs?

What inspired you to use topical Dutasteride? When did you start, why, and what is your formulation?

 

[nooc]

Just curious then, Socks, what dosage amount are you trying to achieve on a per day basis.

By taking 2.5 every third day, you are averaging just under 1mg per day. Is that your goal?

 

[socks]

Just curious then, Socks, what dosage amount are you trying to achieve on a per day basis.

By taking 2.5 every third day, you are averaging just under 1mg per day. Is that your goal?

Nooc,

My goal when taking 2.5mg every 3rd day is as follows:

1. Prevent the possibility of a drug tolerance to Finasteride
a. While a tolerance to Finasteride has never been documented, the human body does have a tendency to develop a "resistance" to specific drugs when using such specific drugs over time.
b. Since Finasteride has a half-life of only 8hrs, by alternating days I reduce the level of Finasteride in my body while not compromising the benefits as, while Finasteride has a short half-life, the 5ar enzyme it inhibits takes days to recover.

2. Lower my overall DHT levels further then what 1mg can accomplish. Even though I might be "averaging" less then 1mg a day my DHT levels are lower then if I were to take 1.5mg daily. Again, the reason for this is due to the slow regeneration of the 5ar. Once you knock it down it takes a while to regenerate. There isnt a need to take Finasteride every day other then to make sure you are consistent. People who skips days while on meds have a tendency not to take the pills on the days they are suppose to. That is the reason, IMHO, Merck advises 1mg daily instead of a dose schedule that would involve skipping days.

3. Finally, it saves money. Not only are my DHT levels lower then if I were to take 1.5mg daily, I'm only using my Proscar at the rate of less then 1mg a day.


I do not recommend that guys try my dosage routine. It does work but only because I'm very consistent with taking my meds on the days I'm suppose to. More often then not, people who skips days will end up not being consistent with taking their medicine.