What is my next step? Propecia?

[thechevyman122]

So a little background, this may be my first post but I have been researching for around a year now. I have been watching my hairline receed for about 2 years now.

I have been on a regiment of saw palmetto, zinc, biotin, and a once daily mens vitamin for about 8 months. I have been putting standard rogaine foam on my temples for about 3 months. My goal with the supplements originally, was to wait and see if my hair line recession would stabalize ("mature hairline").

I am 25 years old, and have a family history (moms side) of hair loss. My father has perfect hair and is 55, unfortunately it has been obvious for some time we have different hair (his his thick, mine is fine, etc).

My expectations are realistic. I understand I will be bald some day in my life. But watching my hairline receed in my 20's has been hard. I am working to post some pictures some of you may not see it, but I had a low hairline originally and due to my family history of hair loss (all in 20s-30s when it started) I have watched it closely.

***is it Time for me to start propecia or proscar, or should I wait until later as to not build up a tolerance before my hair loss is at it's worst?****

**should I continue with current regiment?***

Thanks in advance

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I know this type of thread is a dime a dozen but anybody have some input?

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Bump, more pictures

 

[Diffuser44]

This is a tough one. I'm not seeing any diffused thinning. It looks like your hair might have crept back maybe a quarter to half of an inch from your youth hairline. The fact that you have been balding for 8 months tells me it is slow which is a good sign. Your over to top photos don't appear bad at all.

The crown doesn't look to shabby at all either. If you are more than certain you are losing hair and really badly want to keep it take finasteride. I don't think you would even need minoxidil anymore. Minoxidil doesn't regrow hair on the temples very well for most of us. Maybe some peach fuzz.

I personally can't confirm that you have male pattern baldness. Looks like the recession version of male pattern baldness if anything and at the very beginning of it.

I'm sure you are aware of the finasteride sides. I had no troubles on finasteride for the 7.5 years that I took it. It wasn't until the scare mongering days of 2011 and 2012 that I got scared and made a decision to stop taking the drugs.

Starting finasteride early has awesome benefits as opposed to starting it to late. Your shed period won't be as noticeable and humiliating, you will keep more of your hair, and possibly get thicker in the thin areas, (bald areas are gone sorry), when you quit the drug you won't experience a massive shed because you kept your hair healthy. It's the people that take finasteride later on in their hair loss, regrew a bunch of hair, that experience the big shed after using the drug.

I wouldn't worry about losing hair from quitting minoxidil either. I don't see many minoxidil hairs on you, and doubt that you would have any minoxidil dependent hairs on your head.

One of the disadvantages of taking finasteride too early, is wondering whether or not you are really balding, or just developing a mature hair line. Plus you are altering your hormones earlier in your life which might have an effect on facial hair, chest hair, and other development. Your genital organs should be fully developed by 18, and I don't think finasteride has role with your height and bone structure.

Instead of a decrease in libido, it wouldn't be surprising if you actually had a surge in libido. I think it actually made me more horny. I might have expereienced watery semen, but that could have been from over masturbation while on the drug. Over masturbation would also explain less hard erections, and not performing as well in bed with the lady folk. Though I still was awesome at that while on the drug regardless.

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Do you think the saw palmetto stuff is working? I'm wondering how much that decreases dht by, and whether it decreases both type 1 and type 2 dht's.

Any side effects from the saw palmetto? Saw palmetto might be a good indicator of whether or not your body would tolerate finasteride. I wonder if anyone else has thought of that.

 

[thechevyman122]

That is the problem with anticipatory preventative action - you never really know if its working or not because you don't fully know if the symptoms are there. And even likewise when you stop you don't fully know if an increase in hair loss is because you stopped or because of coincidental timing. Ultimately I'm kind of mad I started minoxidil because I don't really want to stop for the above reasons. My thoughts on saw palmetto are this - It is relatively cheap and its connection to BPH and DHT cannot be denied. However it's efficacy is unknown. Taken from Yahoo Health:
"S
aw palmetto (Serenoa repens, Sabal serrulata) is used popularly in Europe for symptoms associated with benign prostatic hypertrophy (enlargement of the prostate). Although not considered standard of care in the United States, it is the most popular herbal treatment for this condition.
Historical use of saw palmetto can be traced in the Americas to the Mayans who used it as a tonic and to the Seminoles who took the berries as an expectorant and antiseptic.
Saw palmetto was listed in the United States Pharmacopeia from 1906 to 1917 and in the National Formulary from 1926 to 1950. Saw palmetto extract is a licensed product in several European countries.

Multiple mechanisms of action have been proposed, and saw palmetto appears to possess 5-α-reductase inhibitory activity (thereby preventing the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone). Hormonal/estrogenic effects have also been reported, as well as direct inhibitory effects on androgen receptors and anti-inflammatory properties.
"

As far as side effects go the common ones are stomache irritation & nausea, but the "possible" list goes on and on to include the ones we might fear from finasteride. I have experienced no such side effects and my current dose is 450mg a day (my particular bottle says 450mg 3-5 times daily, but everything I read says 450mg should be plenty). Also I have read that comibing beta-sitosterol with saw palmetto can add eficacy for balding AND it has shown effictiveness as a natural increase to sex drive (which makes it a win win). It is also cheap and I will probably purchase some. Taken from Web MD:

""Beta-sitosterol is used for heart disease and high cholesterol. It is also used for boosting the immune system and for preventing colon cancer, as well as for gallstones, the common cold and flu (influenza), HIV/AIDS, rheumatoid arthritis, tuberculosis, psoriasis, allergies, cervical cancer, fibromyalgia, systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE), asthma, hair loss, bronchitis, migraineheadache, and chronic fatigue syndrome.
Some men use beta-sitosterol for enlarged prostate (benign prostatic hyperplasia or BPH). Some women use it for symptoms of menopause.
It is also used for enhancing sexual activity."

 

[thechevyman122]

Hmm not sure if my reply got accepted by mods or not... Does that take awhile?

 

[Diffuser44]

Hmm not sure if my reply got accepted by mods or not... Does that take awhile?

What reply?

 

[thechevyman122]

Well assuming it didnt - and no idea why. My answer is this: Thats the problem with anticipatory hairloss prevention actions - you never really know if they are working or not. And even hair loss after stopping could just be a coincidence in timing and not because you stopped. Thats why I almost mad that I started minoxidil and I am reluctant to start finasteride because I will always be tempted to stop treatment and see if my hair has indeed gotten worse.

My thoughts on saw palmetto AND ALL SUPPLEMENTS IN GENERAL are this: They are relatively in cheap so why not? I am not a snake oil salesmen, so don't take my following exercepts out of context. All I know is what I have read online...

Yahoo Health - "Saw palmetto (Serenoa repens, Sabal serrulata) is used popularly in Europe for symptoms associated with BPH (enlargement of the prostate). Although not considered standard of care in the United States, it is the most popular herbal treatment for this condition.
Historical use of saw palmetto can be traced in the Americas to the Mayans who used it as a tonic and to the Seminoles who took the berries as an expectorant and antiseptic.
Saw palmetto was listed in the United States Pharmacopeia from 1906 to 1917 and in the National Formulary from 1926 to 1950. Saw palmetto extract is a licensed product in several European countries.
Multiple mechanisms of action have been proposed, and saw palmetto appears to possess 5-α-reductase inhibitory activity (thereby preventing the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone). Hormonal/estrogenic effects have also been reported, as well as direct inhibitory effects on androgen receptors and anti-inflammatory properties."

I have experienced no side effects whatsoever and havent had any problem with my errr teamate. I also have read that adding beta sisteroll can help. Beta sisteroll is found in limited traces in saw palmetto but Pygeum Africanum is a much better source. You can buy beta sisteroll suplements for cheap. Here is an article that discusses the relationship between saw palmetto and beta sisteroll : http://www.fitness.com/articles/897/beta_sitosterol_vs_saw_palmetto_for_prostate_health.php

Web MD's take on beta sisteroll:
"Beta-sitosterol is used for heart disease and high cholesterol. It is also used for boosting the immune system and for preventing colon cancer, as well as for gallstones, the common cold and flu (influenza), HIV/AIDS, rheumatoid arthritis, tuberculosis, psoriasis, allergies, cervical cancer, fibromyalgia, systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE), asthma, hair loss, bronchitis, migraineheadache, and chronic fatigue syndrome.
Some men use beta-sitosterol for enlarged prostate (benign prostatic hyperplasia or BPH). Some women use it for symptoms of menopause.
It is also used for enhancing sexual activity.
"

Thanks for your answer, I suppose its time to schedule an appt with a dermatologist and see what he/she says.

 

[thechevyman122]

I have now tried to post a reply twice and both times get the message "Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting.". Both replies I have spent 45 mins citing sources and pasting exercepts from things I've read online. Damnit thats annoying.

 

[Diffuser44]

I have now tried to post a reply twice and both times get the message "Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting.". Both replies I have spent 45 mins citing sources and pasting exercepts from things I've read online. Damnit thats annoying.

I haven't had that happen to me. Weird.

 

[thechevyman122]

THe skinny of it is: "saw palmetto appears to possess 5-α-reductase inhibitory activity (thereby preventing the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone)". - yahoo health

It's cheap and can't hurt, plus it has a ton of other properties that are healthy. I just ordered and plan to supplement saw palmetto with Beta Sisterol (which is actually found in Saw Palmetto in small qualities) if you google that you can find a article that discusses the difference/connection between saw palmetto and beta sisterol on fitness.com. WebMd and plenty of other sources cite beta sisterol as helpful in BPH and potentially helpful in hair loss.

Again I'm not a snake oil salesmen and if/when my hairloss gets more prevalent I will be on the hard stuff immediatly. I just wanted to do what I can while I know I may be slightly receeding without using up my "tolerance" to the only drugs we currently have available. If that makes sense.

 

[thechevyman122]

Do you know a mod I can ask about this? It seems to happen when my message gets long or has links.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

When I started losing my hair, I knew exactly what it was. I didn't even consider that it was a mature hair line. Both my mom and dads side of the family had hair loss issues. I was right, my hair was doomed. If you are sure you are losing your hair I would say see your Dr. and get a prescription for finasteride. Now is the perfect time to save your hair, when it still looks good. There is little point in doing it like I currently am and saving hair that isn't all that great. Save your hair now when you have styling options.

As far as vitamins go I take a multi vitamin and biotin. I have taken saw palmetto before and it really didn't do much for me. I wouldn't waste my time with it. The options we have right now are very limited and I am sure you know what they are: finasteride and minoxidil. If I was in your position(early stages of hair loss), I would take finasteride by itself. I use minoxidil and it really is no big deal to apply, but I don't think you would get much out of it.

I will let you find out about the possibility of sides from your doctor, my doctor wasn't even concerned about potential sides. His main problem with propecia, was the price.

 

[thechevyman122]

When I started losing my hair, I knew exactly what it was. I didn't even consider that it was a mature hair line. Both my mom and dads side of the family had hair loss issues. I was right, my hair was doomed. If you are sure you are losing your hair I would say see your Dr. and get a prescription for finasteride. Now is the perfect time to save your hair, when it still looks good. There is little point in doing it like I currently am and saving hair that isn't all that great. Save your hair now when you have styling options.

As far as vitamins go I take a multi vitamin and biotin. I have taken saw palmetto before and it really didn't do much for me. I wouldn't waste my time with it. The options we have right now are very limited and I am sure you know what they are: finasteride and minoxidil. If I was in your position(early stages of hair loss), I would take finasteride by itself. I use minoxidil and it really is no big deal to apply, but I don't think you would get much out of it.

I will let you find out about the possibility of sides from your doctor, my doctor wasn't even concerned about potential sides. His main problem with propecia, was the price.

Thanks, I will keep yall in the loop with my doctors feedback