Weight Training Thread For Maximum Gainzzz | HairLossTalk Forums

Weight Training Thread For Maximum Gainzzz

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Rudiger, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. Rudiger

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    TL;DR- for anyone curious about weight training, just read the short explanation after "Beginners Guide" below to get a quick idea of how simple it all is to get started. It's only about 10 sentences and ends at "And there we have it" to give you an idea that this will only take a few minutes to read yet it will explain a LOT of how it all basically works, and give you the image of how to do it.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Often in other sections we end up talking extensively about weight lifting and generally fitness built around it, so this thread is for that. I'll @ a lot of people who come to mind as I've been meaning to make a thread for a while and I think a lot of people were interested in it.

    Firstly I don't think people realise how straight forward a weight training program is.

    When I first went to the gym around age 18, I was all over the place in terms of organisation. I was doing the work, but had little clue about muscle groups, even had little clue about sets and reps! I was just selecting a weight and going, sometimes way too heavy and do 5 reps (which is fine for strength training but not what I was doing) sometimes too light and literally over 20 reps, it was a total, total, mess.

    I just wish someone around me had told me the very basic info to keep myself focused, I had no discipline and ran around like a headless chicken. Because of this my 3-5 days training a week slowly dwindled, over a year after getting serious about it, I was then down to just 1 training day maybe ever few weeks, essentially pointless, but that was a result of not ever being given good basic information. And it was my fault as I never asked around me, all the guys I knew that were working out.

    Below would have been great:

    Beginners guide:

    Here's quite a straightforward 4 day program:

    http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-routines/gain-10-pounds-muscle-4-weeks-1?day=1

    You do at least 1 muscle group per session, normally 2 or 3.

    For this we'll be looking at Chest, and this is typically what a lot of programs begin with on Day 1 (there's no rule for this or reason though).

    Each muscle group should have about 3-5 exercises, an "exercise" for example bench press.

    Do a few warm up sets to start off with very light weight or even just the bar, and get form right. If you are a bit intimidated by the Bench Press, start off with a Dumbbell Bench Press instead:

    dumbbell-bench-press-chest-weights-main.jpg

    After warm up do 3 "sets", each set consists of "repetitions", which you do 6-12 in typical hypertrophy (building muscle, though I'd aim for at least 8 reps personally).

    After doing say, 10 repetitions, you take a decent rest break in between, for something like bench press anything from 1-3mins (personally about 90 seconds for me).

    Then do the next 2 sets of repetitions.

    Then do 2-3 more exercises.

    And there we have it,
    I wasted many months not knowing this very simple info.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In the above link they decide to mix in a tricep exercise (dips) between chest exercises, that's all fine, and then it goes back to chest for exercise 4, and then to triceps to finish on exercise 5.

    A session shouldn't last more than an hour, a lot of people swear no more than 45minutes, and some as little as half an hour. Of course when you're starting out, just try and complete the whole thing, there can be moments if you're low on energy it's easy to just want out of there. It may take up to even 90mins when you're getting everything right, obviously keep trying to get close or below an hour but don't worry much in the beginning as long as you're getting it done.

    Once you get into it though, you'll rarely have this feeling of wanting out of there, unless you're genuinely feeling unwell and sickly (in 9 months now of training at least 4 times a week, I've cut short less than a handful of sessions).

    With the above program and basic set/rep explanation, that's literally 90% of what you need to know. Look up form etc. of course, and most gyms will have someone to walk you through exercises the first time. For me I picked up on form and technique quickly, it just all seemed like common sense to me, pushing through legs, arched back, etc. but there's always a few things that will surprise you (eg in Bench Press elbows pointed "down" at a slight angle, I would have assumed they'd be completely parallel with the bar). Obviously at first just keep it light and simple, get form correct, your first week or even few weeks you won't be aiming to stress your body out much, just get the basics.

    Once you have some idea of form...

    How much weight do I lift?

    Your 1RM (1 Rep Maximum) is 100% of what you can lift in one go, you don't need to literally find this out, I still don't know mine for any exercise, but you should be guessing at going around 70-80% of your 1RM. There are Rep Maximum calculators out there that are easy to use but I think it's pretty much common sense, if you can bench press 60kg 5 times, and just about get out that last rep, your 1RM is probably up to 70-75kg, which means from fresh with all of your force you could lift that weight once. I think you get the idea.

    This is where others may disagree, but personally I always exercise to "failure", every single set, say for example I'm aiming for 8-12 reps, the last 2 or 3 will be incredibly strained. Forcing out the final rep until I can't give anymore. So I choose a weight that the first handful or several reps are comfortable, and the last few I really have to dig deep.

    Now to me this seems like common sense but I've since found a lot of guys really disagree with this type of training, some on here as well. Basically they push the idea that form should be perfect, smooth and controlled - which is true, but for me not until the very last rep which can be sloppy and forced. But yes this non-failure idea is 100% true form, not 1 bad rep, and good muscle contraction throughout and focus on that, these guys pretty much think the weight should be comfortable even if you aren't straining by the 12th rep.

    Does either bring optimal results? I obviously do to Failure because I believe breaking the muscle fibres down as much as possible will result in a muscle growing larger in a quicker time when recovering.

    But being honest- I don't have a clue. And try and keep to the basics as above, but don't get too flustered by contradictions in the fitness industry, because it is constant, there's literally very little that is not for dispute.

    What influences my decision as well is simply that I enjoy pushing to failure, that is the fun for me, digging deep and wearing yourself out. I wouldn't feel the same if I got to the end of reps, comfortably breathed out and put the weight down. I want to feel out of it, almost dizzy.

    Muscle contraction is very important, if you can start to feel this straight away then great, but it took a while for me and for some exercises it's still not really happening. Eg Bench Press is for chest, however I don't get huge chest contraction, but with Cable Crossover Flyes I can feel my chest really working.

    132_2.jpg

    For this exercise for example, when you get to the "top" of the movement, pushing the cables completely forward, you "contract" your chest, focus on your muscles tensing.

    Another exercise to understand this that I find helps understand this, is the Lateral Raise.

    a9526de30e17ad5dc758d14a04defab9---workout-life-fitness.jpg
    (It's more common to use a dumbbell instead of kettlebell like above, but I like that this picture shows the muscle groups)

    I'm kind of surprise that I'm finding out this is mainly for the deltoids, because while no doubt I can feel these working, I find this exercise is exceptional for feeling trap contraction.

    So anyway, for me at least, on each rep I fully lower the weight down to my side, I often don't see people do this. They "lock" before fully lowering and relaxing the muscle, to keep a tension, which is understandable with a lot of exercises but this is not one of them.

    When fully lowered and relaxed I can feel that trap muscle completely relax, and then "pop" back into gear when I go to lift again. It's repeatedly working the muscle from fresh, and feels incredible.

    That kind of contraction you should really be aiming towards on every exercise.

    I'm going to have a ton of questions for those more experienced weight lifters on this forum, which of course is partly why I made the thread, as well as encouraging those who are curious which is why I tried to provide as brief of a guide as possible above.

    I was talking to @macaroni recently (I believe I may have given the same exercise program to?) and he seemed to really like how simple it all looks when it's laid out on 1 page of a program like that. I don't know if that sparked something in him to start, but for me when I realised how straight forward it is, that's when things really kicked off, and I've been hooked since.

    About every 3 months I'll take a week off, or at least 5 days, and I start itching to get back. I honestly think exercise has greatly improved my brain functionality, such as memory, recollection of particular phrases word-for-word, sometimes when telling a story to a group of people for example, I'd freeze a little at parts and thinking about the next part of a story while explaining the current part (which natural extroverts probably don't even realise is what their brain does) would sometimes require pausing, going "uhm... ahh.." etc. Well no longer, it just rattles off now. It's made huge differences in a lot of ways, and not only do I love the feeling of weight lifting itself, and the feeling afterwards, but I didn't expect the general benefits to be so great.

    On top of this your gym time will give you a reason to improve nutrition. Now I need to get back on track with this admittedly.

    Anyway my first question is about contraction, and how I fail to really get it from some exercises. For example Bicep Curls (dumbbell, barbell, cable, any type) I am not feeling my "ball" of a bicep really straining, I'm still working the muscle but rarely getting that true contraction that I'd feel in the aforementioned exercises for chest or traps.

    I got Fat Gripz recently, and it appears to be helping considerably. So to other guys, experienced or not, do you get that huge feeling of contraction with say a barbell bicep curl? Do you have advice on how to promote this feeling? And do you always feel contraction on intended muscles for every exercise? As I do not.

    Here's the Fat Grips and I highly recommend them for Biceps, Forearms too, the jury is still out on other muscle groups though:

    diagram.jpg

    @shookwun @kj6723 @WhitePolarBear @Afro_Vacancy @hairblues @CaptainForehead @swingline747 @buckthorn @whatevr @CopeForLife

    Sorry if I'm forgetting people I've talked to about this before, or even if I've included people from memory who may not give a shit about training. But we've often talked about how we often talk about lifting in random threads but don't have a properly devoted thread to discuss it.

    I've browsed bodybuilding forums etc. but although you can pick up on good advice to read, I find interacting with these guys intimidating. For example they think bench pressing your own body weight is still laughably "pussy" when I'm still a long way off that, at least 10kilos. But I don't understand this because these guys on BBF etc. some of them aren't that big or anything, but toned, and they seem to be thinking like an 80kilo bench press is weak sauce, but I know very few "normal" sized guys who aren't huge bricks of muscle, that can push around this weight. I even know one guy who's a semi-famous social media type personal trainer, with lots of clients, and he just got his 5 Rep PB last week, of 77.5 kilo? Made me feel better admittedly, he is short but has big arms and a huge chest.

    Anyway here's a few other programs I've done:

    https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/building-von-moger-6-week-mass-program
    http://www.building-muscle101.com/weight-training-program-5.html

    The last being my favourite, out of the 3 posted and 2 other programs I've done from personal trainers.

    This is going to be my next one:

    https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jim-stoppani-six-week-shortcut-to-shred.html

    And I also like the look of this one, after cutting some considerable weight doing Stoppani:

    http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-muscle-building-workout-routine/

    This is looking a few months down the line, and I'll be seriously upping my calories for it.
     
    #1 Rudiger, Jul 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
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  2. Rudiger

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    Lol even the tl;dr was quite lengthy.

    That was a way larger post than I'd hoped to make but I did include this question which I'm posting again as a lot of people won't get to it:

    Anyway my first question is about contraction, and how I fail to really get it from some exercises. For example Bicep Curls (dumbbell, barbell, cable, any type) I am not feeling my "ball" of a bicep really straining, I'm still working the muscle but rarely getting that true contraction that I'd feel in the aforementioned exercises for chest or traps.

    I got Fat Gripz recently, and it appears to be helping considerably. So to other guys, experienced or not, do you get that huge feeling of contraction with say a barbell bicep curl? Do you have advice on how to promote this feeling? And do you always feel contraction on intended muscles for every exercise? As I do not.

    Thanks
     
  3. kj6723

    kj6723 Senior Member My Regimen

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    I actually think 3x a week full body routines may be better for complete newbies to lifting for the first 3ish months, just to build a base of strength and muscle mass. I'd recommend something like this for newbies:

    3-5 sets each:
    Squats
    Bench press
    Rowers
    Overhead Press

    Stick to general compound movements like this, maybe finish with some core or calves work. After around 3 months evaluate the situation and maybe then switch to body part splits depending on how it's going.

    In general if I'm not feeling a good contraction in the muscle I'm aiming to target with a specific exercise, I'll usually drop that exercise

    In regards to biceps I actually don't do curls at this point because my biceps are way over-responsive to training. My back exercises strain and swoll my biceps as much as they need

    When I have time later I'll plan to post a semi-detailed description of what a basic workout week for me looks like
     
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  4. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    From my experience full body compound workouts are far more effective full stop. Check out Alpha Destiny on Youtube, pushing the natural limits and he is only doing 2x full body workouts per week along with a few home exercises at other points during the week. I was doing a push/pull/leg split across 6 days every week for 6 months and when I switched to 2 full body workouts my gains kept increasing at the same rate and I was spending half the time in the gym.

    I think with training to failure the research I've suggests that nonlinear-periodization and lifting to failure is ideal, but personally I think it increases the risk of injury. Obviously for a professional or someone who is getting perfect form and focus on every exercise every rep this is ideal, but for a hobbyist I don't think its worth it.

    I do something similar to that workout along with romanian deadlifts, pullups, tricep push-downs, lateral raises, leg press and incline bench.

    http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-routines/gain-10-pounds-muscle-4-weeks-1?day=1

    This workout is a dumb as fuck brosplit to be honest. You don't want to be doing compounds that hit the some of the same muscle groups day after day which is unavoidable without at least moving to a push/pull/leg. Like you said though, if you follow a routine with a proper rep range, proper form, a variety of exercises for each muscle group and work to failure its actually hard to not make gains if your caloric intake is reasonable.
     
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  5. WhitePolarBear

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    Here's my method: I use whatever machine and free weights are free at the moment, I eat a protein-rich diet, but without overthinking eat, sometimes cottage cheese in the morning and before bed, sometimes oatmeal, at noon, sometimes it's a steak, sometimes sushi, sometimes tuna sandwich, etc.

    Jesus, how can people can overthink this? Just get into that gym, use whatever machines and free weights that are available, lift until exhaustion, or enough so that you can feel that you're doing something, do that for 35-45 minutes 2 to 3 times a week, eat more meat, fish and dairy... That's it.

    I've gained about 5kg of muscles in 6 months of lifting and I feel like I'm plateauing a bit, but come on, even if I implemented some changes and started overthinking all this, doing more exercise that required me to study form, thinking about the perfect routine, no thanks.

    Just lift, eat well enough and be patient (this can't be underlined enough).

    Who cares about what's optimal, do what's good enough and you'll reach your peak eventually. It's unavoidable.

    Brah.
     
  6. Medina

    Medina Established Member My Regimen

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    I hope you guys realize most women aren't attracted to this look

    That guy in the white vest for example, he would be Chad if he toned it down and wore a nice sweater but instead he looks like the Michelin Man taking a shit. It's quite funny to see dudes these days walking around with large bodies and tiny heads. I don't believe they get laid as much as your average tinder sweetheart but that's just a hunch. By all means, tone up, keep fit, but the muscle game has gone too far these days and a lot of guys can end up looking stupid.
     
  7. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    Agreed, but borderline impossible to look like that without roids though. Unless your routine and diet are insanely perfect and consistent its very difficult to get to a point where it looks ridiculous.
     
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  8. Rudiger

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    Well I'm not feeling any great contraction with ANY bicep movement, so I'd have to drop them all, which obviously ain't an option. Cable curls are maybe the closest thing.

    Is it that bad? I only did it once. My current workout routine I've been repeating for like 3 months at least (probably way too long).

    Lol what a pussy how are you gonna look like this guy?!

    5a56f65e3276a8b4d013bf3aba7eb83f.jpg

    I don't care what women are attracted to, but I was just posting a guys form.

    It is kinda hilarious when people at work or even friends at home see me looking up these fitness articles and there's always huge guys on there, and people are like "ummmm are you trying to look like that?!"

    Or guys who post slimmer bodies saying "I don't want to look like this huge animal!" uh without a LOT of roids and a LOT of effort and time, you won't. Even with roids, the majority of guys will not gain tons of muscle like these guys.

    But really if I worked out with zero results, I'd probably keep doing it. Of course while I'm in there I may as well try and get results if it just means eating right, but I just enjoy going, I actually do.

    Now, if I didn't get results I might go less, on those days when I drag myself to go. But I'd still go 3 times a week for sure.
     
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  9. WhitePolarBear

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    The first thing my girlfriend said when I bought my gym membership was: "Don't go too far with this, too big is ugly."

    Aim for this and maintain:

    d9c4cdf4bf0e60e491ef0557d26f499450ad5ed0.jpg
     
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  10. kj6723

    kj6723 Senior Member My Regimen

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    Here's what a general workout week for me looks like at the moment. There's variation, I switch things up some from this, incorporate some supersets depending on how I'm feeling, but this is a good general picture of what I've been doing for the last few months:

    Day 1: Quads:
    Warm up 5 min jog treadmill or elliptical (last 30 seconds ~75% sprint)
    6 sets front squats
    4 sets leg press
    5 sets somersault squats on smith machine
    3 sets leg extension, last 2 sets high rep drop sets

    Day 2: Chest/triceps
    Warm up 5 min arm bike (last 30 seconds ~75% sprint)
    5 sets incline dumbbell press
    4 sets incline cable flies
    4 sets dips
    3 sets fly machine
    4 sets dumbbell triceps extension

    Day 3: Core
    Warm up 5 min jog treadmill or elliptical (last 30 seconds ~75% sprint)
    5 sets weighted crunch machine
    3 sets superset weighted leg raises/weighted planks
    3 sets woodchopper on cables
    5 round circuit situps, medicine ball reverse crunches

    Day 4: Hamstrings/calves
    Warm up 5 min jog treadmill or elliptical (last 30 seconds ~75% sprint)
    5 sets leg press (feet positioned high with toes pointed slightly in)
    6 sets leg curls
    5 sets calf press (on leg press)
    5 sets seated calf machine
    3 round circuit burnout: 30 toe jumps, 30 toe raises, 30 donkey calf raises

    Day 5: Back/shoulders/upper body/abs
    Warm up 5 min arm bike (last 30 seconds ~75% sprint)
    5 sets weight crunch machine
    3 sets widegrip pullups
    3 sets dumbbell rows
    3 sets superset overhead dumbbell press/reverse grip lat pulldowns
    3 sets face pulls
    Finish with 120 pushups, however many sets it takes, with feet propped up at various levels

    I do a couple warm up sets to start, then almost everything is to failure. Mostly 8-12 rep range, with a few of the middling sets falling between 4-6 reps, some ending sets going higher than 12. I finish every workout with a 5 min cool down walk and 5-10 min of stretching. From beginning to end these workouts take me from 1-2 hours depending. Basically I cycle through this, then start over, or I take 1-2 days off depending on how burnt out I am or how busy I am. If I'm really burnt out I occasionally take 3-4 days off. Atm I'm also doing muay thai and boxing 3-5 days week, so recovery can definitely be an issue, which is why I'm taking a few days off atm

    This is not the kind of thing I would recommend hopping into for a beginner. This workout is personalized very much to me. There are areas I never/rarely isolate because they're just overly responsive to training, like my biceps, glutes, traps. I also have "problem areas" that need extra focus to be in proportion like my vastus lateralis and upper chest
     
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  11. kj6723

    kj6723 Senior Member My Regimen

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    The Brad Pitt in fight club look is fine if you're a taller guy

    As a manlet I need to be more swole than that to avoid being cucked

    Good manlet aesthetics:
    1-Fighter.jpg
     
    #11 kj6723, Jul 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
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  12. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    This physique requires not eating like a pig, which is actually a fuck ton harder than putting on muscle.
     
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  13. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    Very good exercises but with some redundancies and a little more accessory work might be worthwhile. A more effective split would be a push/pull/leg with chest, shoulders,triceps - biceps,back, traps - legs,calves, abs

    For me I've found 2 extensive full body workouts is more efficient. Then ten minutes of on off treadmill sprints midweek.

    Everything three sets of 8-12 and something like:


    Workout A

    Dumbell bench
    Dumbell overhead press
    Tricep pushdown
    Pullups (depending on ability)
    Pendlay row (3x5)
    Dumbell hammer curl
    Barbell squats (3x5)
    Leg press
    Crunch machine

    Workout B

    Dumbell overhead press
    Close grip barbell bench
    Barbell tricep extension
    Seated cable rows
    Dumbell preacher curl
    Shrugs
    Romanian deadlift (3x5)
    Leg press
    Calf raises
    Cable Crunches

    Typically found this works best for me and is far quicker than a split. I'll add accessories if something is lagging, I have the same issue with getting contraction with chest exercises and biceps and they tend to lag.
     
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  14. Rudiger

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    This is where my newbness shines through. I dunno if I'm embarrassed about talking about routines with gym people but I never do, I mainly avoid talking in the gym but if I ever do then it's just general crap, maybe a little about form but nobody really seems to talk about whole routines in detail.

    I literally thought a split was 2 workouts in a day, which I sometimes do.

    Your workouts there is that during one session? I don't think I could do that in less than 90mins.

    Maybe I'm (probably) confused.
     
  15. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    Splits are just ways of grouping muscle groups across days. Like push/pull/leg, Upper/lower or individual muscles.

    Those full body workouts I do in one session. Took me a while to build up to that, started focusing on no more than 1 minute between sets which is ideal for hypertrophy and also doing a few treadmill sprints per week helps a lot with that recovery, even if only 10 minutes of that high intensity across a few sets. The hard part is building up the fitness.

    I usually do it in 50-65 minutes depending on how I feel that day. 27 or 30 sets so that's around a minute per exercise and a minute for recovery each time.

    Honestly I think as long as you're hitting any particular muscle group twice per week and training close failure with a decent set and rep range everyone has a substantial amount of noob gains to make for at least 18 months. For most I think when they get to the point that a reasonable routine and casual focus on lifting isn't giving them gains they will have already achieved an aesthetic and respectable physique anywhere from 12-18% body fat.
     
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  16. Rudiger

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    This kind of refresher is why I started the thread. I often do more than a minute, even 2, but I feel a ton better if I'm pushed for time like today and I'm resting less.

    And between exercises? Basically as long as it takes to walk and set up the new one? That's normally at least a minute.

    Some have insisted you need cardio at the end of every training session, it's vital (can't remember why) or 4-5mins of HIIT. My high intensity is closer to 20 seconds on and 40 seconds off last time I tried, so I'd do a bit more than 5mins, until basically I'm seeing stars and worrying about puking.

    Then I'd do core/abs, as I also get the most tension here at the end of my routine.

    I find with doing all of that shit it was taking too long. That shredding routine I posted earlier that I'll be looking at next month, it looks like I'll be back to my 2 hour sessions.

    Noob gains have been very good for 8 months, I was putting on the pudge as I bulked and finished up a few months ago. I had a basic average body, now my muscle is starting to catch up and I have good composition. If I cut down their fat back to where I was at weight wise 180 lbs, I might look quality. Currently around 200lbs but waist size has gone down and I'm visibly in better shape, so I believe I'm mainly adding muscle but with all the calories I was shoving in, of course some fat as well.
     
  17. macaroni

    macaroni Senior Member

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    thanks for starting this thread, i am intimidated by the general gym-talk and the amount of planning/research that goes into getting the exercises/diet right. My brother is a bodybuilder and he is fucking gigantic - spends a lot of time at the gym. I know it's in my genes to be able to pack on muscle, but i have not worked out a day in my life. Now, given my current situation, it's no longer an option to not workout. It's either get in the best shape of my life or watch myself become incorrigibly out of shape - the pendulum can swing either way. I have to get in shape.

    I don't know what everyone weighs, but i'm at ~230lbs, on a tall frame. I was reading about protein intake and they recommend 1g of protein for each lb of weight - is that accurate?

    I'm with @WhitePolarBear on the "don't overthink it" - it has to be stupid simple for me to want to do it. I don't mind spending muscle energy getting fit, but brain energy figuring out how to get fit sounds exhausting (pun intended).
     
  18. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    You don't need 230 grams of protein a day.
    https://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
     
  19. macaroni

    macaroni Senior Member

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    Afro_Vacancy likes this.
  20. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    I went to the gym today, as by now my surgucal scars should be sufficiently closed that they won't pop.

    Dumbbell bench press
    Barbell bicep curl
    Barbell reverse bicep curl
    Military press
    Tricep pushdown
    Seated row
    This isolateral back thing, and since I was drained, some assisted chin ups.

    Tomorrow I'll do legs and abs.
     
    kj6723 likes this.

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