Ways to prevent finasteride sides?

Wuffer

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I've actually researched both of these in the past, as I used to drink a lot of soy and I (currently) consume a lot of alcohol.

Soy does contain phytoestrogen. However, for the average male, regular consumption of soy products will not change the bioavailable hormone levels in any significant way. However, I think there might be a risk for people that consume a large amount of soy; namely people on a vegan diet. I have gone through phases where I ate a TON of soy over long periods of time. I have never noticed any negative effects from this, and I don't think it is a cause for concern.


The same can be said for Alcohol, but you may need to be more careful with it. Excessive alcohol consumption is proven to lead to an increase in estrogen, and decrease in testosterone. I don't exactly know what defines excessive (it's obviously different for everyone) but it's probably in the range of 2-3 drinks a day, along with binge drinking on weekends.

I actually did this for about 6 months a few years ago. I absolutely noticed a difference; weight gain and gyno were the two most notable symptoms. I've since cut down to 1 drink (beer) after work, and much lighter drinking on weekends. The weight gain I had has gone away, as has the gyno. I still have binge drinking sessions from time to time, but not as bad as I used to. Alcohol is shown to be healthy if consumed in moderation. I don't believe moderate drinking will significantly contribute to estrogen hormones in the blood, but I would be interested to hear the thoughts of others on this.



Also, don't underestimate the powerful effect that Exercise has on the body and hormones. A large contributor to estrogen levels in men is fat. Ironically, fat leads to estrogen, which can lead to more fat (gyno). I know you see it everywhere, but exercise, particularly high intensity cardio, is one of the healthiest things you can do for your body. If you are worried about your hormone levesla dn aren't exercising regularly, it's the best thign you can do.
 

Ende

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Good answer. I agree. I have access to blood tests through my GP. I take the tests whenever I need them. I'm treating myself. Unfortunately, saliva isn't nearly as accurate as serum, so I recommend seeing a doctor if you want to keep track of hormonal changes.
 

Mens Rea

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Enden said:
What other mechanisms than aromatase, increases the estrogen level in men?
.


I agree about the high testosterone , DHT isnt the only player.

As for this question, i'm not sure what you mean

What i meant was DHT isn't the only thing that will determine estrogen levels; far from it. That is why it usually isn't that simple in most real-life cases.


Wuffer - where are you from?
 

Ende

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You said "There are other things that elevate e2 via different feedback mechanisms"? As far as I know, only two things controls the level of estrogen. DHT and the HPTA. hGH works as an aromatase inhibitor as well, so let's make it three. Which other mechanisms did you have in mind?
 

Mens Rea

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Enden said:
You said "There are other things that elevate e2 via different feedback mechanisms"? As far as I know, only two things controls the level of estrogen. DHT and the HPTA. hGH works as an aromatase inhibitor as well, so let's make it three. Which other mechanisms did you have in mind?


There are lots of things that will affect the aromatase activity in your body.

The HPTA. YES!!

And the mechanisms therein are various. Most importantly - levels of testosterone. Direct link here due to a 0.3% conversion rate. I don't need to explain that one any further.

PROGESTERONE is a very important hormone too, it inhibits DHT for instance...

CORTISOL i believe is very important for the metabolism of testosterone and thus is linked to estrogen.


Other things - the condition of the LIVER can determine the level of aromatase activity....
 

Mens Rea

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Wuffer said:
I'm from Canada, you?

UK. Canada has free health care too. If you are on finasteride you should be looking at bloods tests and should be eligible for atleast one or two sets every now and again.
 

Wuffer

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You're right; i'm going to look into doing that. Unfortunately, we are having a bit of a problem in our health care system at the moment, and wait times are pretty bad.. But i'm scheduled for a check-up and i'm going to ask to have a blood test done. Good suggestion!

Do you guys in the UK get your college paid for? I heard that, and if it's true, i'm insanely jealous.. Actually the GF and I are planning a trip out there sometime this summer.. We are looking to land in Amsterdam and get one of those eu rail passes and spend a month. I am a big time beer connoisseur and all my favorites come out of the UK!
 

Raxe

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I've taken finasteride .25 every day for about a month and a half. I use DIM to metabolize any excess estrogen. The only thing I've noticed since starting is a very minor ball ache about a week in (might have imagined it though). Other than that, no sides.
 

Wuffer

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You didn't imagine it; I had it and I would say almost every single person that starts on finasteride will experience it to some degree.. Even the people that have been on for 10+ years with no problems will report it! I would say it's 'normal' while starting finasteride, and it at least proves that you have the real stuff!
 

Mens Rea

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Wuffer said:
You're right; i'm going to look into doing that. Unfortunately, we are having a bit of a problem in our health care system at the moment, and wait times are pretty bad.. But i'm scheduled for a check-up and i'm going to ask to have a blood test done. Good suggestion!

Do you guys in the UK get your college paid for? I heard that, and if it's true, i'm insanely jealous.. Actually the GF and I are planning a trip out there sometime this summer.. We are looking to land in Amsterdam and get one of those eu rail passes and spend a month. I am a big time beer connoisseur and all my favorites come out of the UK!


No, we don't get college paid for the fees are actually doubling now you're talking anywhere between £3-5k per year now. It used to be like £1,500. Actually i tell a lie, until recently, most people's families were means assessed and if they fell into a particular bracket their fees were paid for them. Think that's been tightened up now, though!!

Haha, awesome, yeah i agree about the beers :)
 

Ende

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Mens Rea said:
PROGESTERONE is a very important hormone too, it inhibits DHT for instance...
Interesting. Do you have some more information on that? Men usually have a very low level of progesterone. When I asked an old doctor about the normal range for men, he said that it didn't exist. I just checked Oslo univeristy hospital's reference, and men do indeed have a "normal range" too. It should be below 3 nmol/l; my score was 6.8...
 

Ende

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Mens Rea said:
Other things - the condition of the LIVER can determine the level of aromatase activity....
Yes, I think that's how alcohol is linked to increased aromatase activity.
 

Mens Rea

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Enden said:
Mens Rea said:
PROGESTERONE is a very important hormone too, it inhibits DHT for instance...
Interesting. Do you have some more information on that? Men usually have a very low level of progesterone. When I asked an old doctor about the normal range for men, he said that it didn't exist. I just checked Oslo univeristy hospital's reference, and men do indeed have a "normal range" too. It should be below 3 nmol/l; my score was 6.8...


I'll see what i can find for you, but basically this is why peopel used to use progesterone for hair loss. It has feminising tendancies; it's a known DHT inhibitor. It's such an important and complex hormone though, even in the male body.

Honestly though, i'm mentally exhausted with all this stuff i need to get away from it all. I've been on PH the past month every hour of the day doing endless reading. It's such a sad state of affairs. Finasteride is such a f*****g serious drug i can't believe i too it for a full year. I just hope i get over this. Penis shinkage is the absolute worst, a complete psychological destroyer that most men will never have to deal with at a young age.

I might try to take a step back for my mental well-being. I'm living a normal life but have this all going on in the background. Complete hell. You understand this Enden, most don't.
 

sandyc

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Raxe said:
I've taken finasteride .25 every day for about a month and a half. I use DIM to metabolize any excess estrogen. The only thing I've noticed since starting is a very minor ball ache about a week in (might have imagined it though). Other than that, no sides.

Could you tell me a bit more about DIM? Googled it and all sorts of random stuff comes up.
 

Mens Rea

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sandyc said:
Raxe said:
I've taken finasteride .25 every day for about a month and a half. I use DIM to metabolize any excess estrogen. The only thing I've noticed since starting is a very minor ball ache about a week in (might have imagined it though). Other than that, no sides.

Could you tell me a bit more about DIM? Googled it and all sorts of random stuff comes up.

DIM promotes healthy estrogen's and works against unhealthy estrogens.

Found in brocolli. Has helped many a man with higher estrogen levels.

Did nothing for me.


http://www.dimfaq.com/site/toc.htm
 

Rutt

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People seriously claim 'penile shrinkage'? Something that has literally never shown up in a single medical study?
 

Ende

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Yeah. I've seen my penis grow while using Andractim, but obviously that's not possible either. Smoking isn't dangerous for your health. At least they thought so for many, many years. Just because something hasn't been studied thoroughly yet, doesn't make it wrong.
 

Mens Rea

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Rutt said:
People seriously claim 'penile shrinkage'? Something that has literally never shown up in a single medical study?


What do you mean a single medical study? About finasteride?


Men's penis sizes dwindle with age naturally, for a start.
http://www.sexualtips.net/penis_size_qu ... nswers.htm



If you don't think penis sizes are effected by estrogen and anti-androgens then you're deluded and you don't live in the real world.

It's a known fact amongst the gender-change community that you can shrink you penis with a cocktail of anti-androgens and estrogen. Here is an example of a guy (well....person) who did just this...

Mine went from 8.5" to 3" within a couple months time (at the time I was on estrogen, anti-androgens, dht-inhibitors, progesterone). I could still achieve erections, though they were rather comically tiny looking (kind of cute actually. lol). Orgasms felt incredibly different... they left me paralyzed very long periods of time

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102065


Not to mention Penile Fibrosis and Peyronie's Disease are both well known problems for men albeit with largely "unknown" causes. Given that alot of PH has had these problems....well, the apple doesn't far too far from the tree especially when you consider the above...


Lastly, people are actually using DHT cream (normal people) to INCREASE the size of their penis. Apparently it harbours great success for some.



I don't think i need to substantiate things any further. The link between DHT and the penis couldn't really be much stronger. It is accepted in the medical community that DHT and Free T are the two most important factors for penile strength, tissue maintainance and size. It's not as if we're arguing some crazy theory here.
 
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