Wait, There Is A 5 Beta Reductase, And 5-beta Dht!

BaldingHelpMe

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It's code named AKR1D1, this 5 beta reductase can convert T to DHT too! It's 5-beta-DHT. It's inhibited by finasteride, but not dutasteride! So it seems that there is something finasteride can do that dutasteride can't! Maybe there is indeed some benefits taking both dutasteride and finasteride?

And also, there are very few information about this 5-beta-DHT's role in hair loss!

http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0041/ea0041GP174.htm
 

GoldenMane

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Very interesting, thanks for sharing! This may explain why some men say dutasteride destroys their hairlines, safest to take both!
 

sheepish

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Evolution of steroid-5α-reductases and comparison of their function with 5β-reductase
2010


In marked contrast, the reproductive functions of SRD5b are largely unexplored because of the long held view that 5b-DHT does not have androgenic effects (Kokontis and Liao, 1999). Some experimental evidence supports the view that the 5b-androstanes are not androgenic and it has been demonstrated that 5b-DHT does not compete for the androgen-binding site in mammalian prostate (Mainwaring, 1977). This was explained by a steric effects on the A ring in 5b-androstanes since induction of androgenic activity needs an electronic effect on the A ring (Liao et al., 1973). The 5b-androstanes failed to induce a negative feedback on plasma luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone (Davies et al., 1980), failed to stimulate cloacal gland growth (Massa et al., 1980) and failed to induce comb development in male chicken (Mori et al., 1974). Furthermore, intrahypothalamic 5b-DHT implants did not induce male sexual behavior in birds (Adkins, 1977; Steimer and Hutchison, 1981); while testosterone and 5a-DHT implants induced the erect threat posture in chicks (Groothuis and Ros, 2005). However, there are numerous reports to the contrary that indicate important biological functions of SRD5b and 5b-DHT. For example, sexual behavior studies indicate important roles of SRD5b, including the regulation of steroid production by testosterone inactivation and/or direct inhibition of aromatase (estrogen synthase) by 5b-reduced metabolites of testosterone in the brain of birds (Balthazart et al., 1981; Hutchison and Steimer, 1981; Steimer and Hutchison, 1981). Hutchison and Steimer (1981) suggested that inactivation of testosterone by conversion to 5b-DHT by SRD5b regulates brain sensitivity to androgens under changing hormonal conditions. Long-term castrated doves showed increased levels of 5b-DHT in the preoptic area (androgen sensitive) compared to intact males (Steimer and Hutchison, 1981) suggesting that 5b-reduction regulates low androgen levels during non-breeding seasons. Furthermore, 5b-DHT has also been shown to exhibit direct biological activities. Exposure to 5b-DHT inhibited mammary development in mice (Yanai et al., 1977), and induced vasorelaxation in thoracic aorta (Montano et al., 2008) and vas deferens (Lafayette et al., 2008) in rats. Even though 5b-DHT does not affect directly male secondary sexual development (compared to 5a-DHT), 5b-DHT can induce other androgen-related functions and 5b-reduction can regulate testosterone availability.
 

BaldingHelpMe

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Even though 5b-DHT does not affect directly male secondary sexual development (compared to 5a-DHT), 5b-DHT can induce other androgen-related functions and 5b-reduction can regulate testosterone availability.

Thanks, so in other words, does 5b-DHT play a role in Androgenetic Alopecia? dutasteride raises about 10-20% of free T, with 5b-reductase, there will be a lot of 5b-DHT if you take dutasteride. Only finasteride inhibited 5b-reductase, but not competitively, weakly bonded, but still better than no inhibition at all.
 

sheepish

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This is the ref of the paper: Langlois VS, Zhang D, Cooke GM, Trudeau VL. Gen Comp Endocrinol. 2010 May 1;166(3):489-97
It references this paper - Liao, S., Liang, T., Fang, S., Shao, E., Shao, T.C., 1973. Steroid structure and androgenic activity – specificities involved in receptor binding and nuclear retention of various androgens. J. Biol. Chem. 248, 6154 - which suggests that 5beta DHT will not bind to the AR protein because the A ring is bend at right angles to the plane of the BCD rings (the 3D conformer tools in PubChem should help visualise this).
This in turn would suggest that more 5-beta reductase would lower the amount of 5alpha DHT being formed, as some testosterone would be converted to (supposedly) non-androgenic 5-beta DHT instead. However, this is conjecture - its probably more complicated than that, my chemistry is average and my biology terrible.
 

abcdefg

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See inhibiting androgens like DHT isnt as simple as it sounds. Some people say androgens are only one factor in male pattern baldness and there are others. The problem is we dont have a perfect ideal AA to really see to what extent androgens control male pattern baldness. Maybe DHT all by itself completely and fully controls all male pattern baldness at least initially until other down stream processes take over and its gets much more complex. Maybe a perfect AA could prevent male pattern baldness forever by itself. We dont really know yet because nothing is really perfect at that other then castration
So many people talk about hair loss with no real idea if what they are saying is even true or not.
Yeah taking both dutasteride and finasteride together is stronger although kind of risky too
 
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