Topical Spironolactone S5 Day Cream?

[NickUK01]

Hey guys,

Just a quick question, you'll have to pardon my nativity on the subject (only starting out on my hair loss treatment journey!). I am wondering if this is the spironolactone cream any of you guys use (the stuff they sell on the site) or if they are big differences between different brands etc? I am looking to pick some up and just wanted a little advice.

Thanks very much!

 

[Captain Hook]

Certainly is. Most of us who use topical spironolactone use the S5 Cream brand from this site.

In theory there shouldn't be much if any difference between brands though, both S5 Cream and spironolactone cream made up to US Pharmacopeia standards use the same vehicle (alcohol and triethanolamine). S5 Cream just has some niceties added to it like caffeine or adenosine which are thought to help with hair growth (check my story thread for the posted studies on these compounds), limonene to mask the somewhat offensive mercaptan odour of spironolactone and aloe vera to help moisturise the scalp.

 

[NickUK01]

Oh great, I will pick some up today! Do you use both the day and night cream or just the day cream twice a day? Thanks!

 

[Captain Hook]

I've been using the Day Cream since 30 August 2015 since I only ordered one pot and that was the one I started off with just to see if I would tolerate the medication well (read: not have an allergic reaction to it) so as to not waste money on two pots if I ended up being allergic to it. I'm going to add in the Bedtime Cream after I finish this pot which should be in about a month so end of October this year.

So right now: Day Cream twice daily

End of October when I finish this pot: Day Cream in the morning and Bedtime Cream at night.

 

[NickUK01]

I ordered one of each and are on their way now! How have you found using it? Very early days of course, any major sheds or scalp discomfort? I will be adding minoxidil to my regimen (both the cream and mixon with will used at my vertex/back of the head area). I have a Propecia script and the tablets sitting on my drawer but haven't brought myself to starting them yet. What are you views on starting on lower doses for 3-6 months to see how your body reacts to it?

Thanks buddy!

 

[JaySizzle]

I am on my second day cream and have used one night cream prior... each bottle lasts me at least 6 months. I apply it like I would with rogaine foam, but parting my hair.

I use it all over my head but the only area that is thinning is my temples... it didn't stop that from further thinning but we all know receding hairlines are the hardest to halt.

 

[Captain Hook]

I ordered one of each and are on their way now! How have you found using it? Very early days of course, any major sheds or scalp discomfort? I will be adding minoxidil to my regimen (both the cream and mixon with will used at my vertex/back of the head area). I have a Propecia script and the tablets sitting on my drawer but haven't brought myself to starting them yet. What are you views on starting on lower doses for 3-6 months to see how your body reacts to it?

Thanks buddy!

Check my story thread for specific details but I have had no trouble using it at all. It actually leaves my hair looking nice to the point where I don't need to add any styling products. It doesn't cause a shed like minoxidil does, a few days after use is when I noticed a decrease in overall hair loss.

To the best of my understanding if you're going to get side effects from finasteride, even low doses like 0.25mg will cause them, by all means trial it and see how you go if that's what you'd like to do, it's personal preference after all.

 

[Norwood One]

Kinda off topic, but while perusing swisstemples's blog, I noticed he mentioned Caffeine is NOT good for hair. (Cox inhibitor I recall).

http://ask.fm/swisstemples/answer/133665447532

So would that mean S5 nightcream (sans caffiene) is a better option than the S5 Day cream with caffiene?

Edit: The newer S5 Creams don't contain caffeine anymore.

 

[Captain Hook]

Kinda off topic, but while perusing swisstemples's blog, I noticed he mentioned Caffeine is NOT good for hair. (Cox inhibitor I recall).

http://ask.fm/swisstemples/answer/133665447532

So would that mean S5 nightcream (sans caffiene) is a better option than the S5 Day cream with caffiene?

The evidence is equivocal. PubMed studies I've posted in My Story thread do show that caffeine has tentative benefit for Androgenetic Alopecia, this wouldn't be the case if its ability to inhibit cyclooxygenase was significant. While it may be a COX inhibitor it probably isn't strong enough to cause deleterious effects on your hair, swisstemples was likely only speculating.

That being said, other COX inhibitors like aspirin are strong and hence topical use of such compounds should be avoided.

 

[JaySizzle]

I implied it could be a cause. Just like in life, nothing is known for sure, and is explainable. I never said I disagreed with the studies you posted. You assumed that yourself. All I was saying, and am saying, is that you cannot know for certain what foods, herbs, meds etc, causes what reaction, with every single person. Western medicine is not the only answer to all our medical problems. Just because they have not found answers to certain things, does not mean they do not exist. Western medicine is actually very limited when you think about it. Treating the symptoms only is probably the worst way to deal with health issues.

You did imply it a bit though. Anyways, Clinical studies are as far as modern medicine has taken us, if you don't believe them, what do you believe?

Oh and instead of calling me a fool and making asinine assumptions why don't you actually read the studies I posted in My Story thread, they weren't performed by any pharmaceutical industry, they were performed by various dermatologists. Spironolactone topical cream isn't even a marketed product, it's only made by compounding pharmacies. No one is making money from concluding there were no observed side effects.

That being said, if you still don't believe what I'm saying, look at the study I posted regarding the inability to quantify spironolactone or its metabolites in plasma. Researchers concluded that plasma canrenone (the major metabolite of spironolactone) levels were undetectable even after applying spironolactone cream to 55% of the patients body area. This means that spironolactone undergoes extensive metabolism before reaching the bloodstream. So how would side effects that occur with the oral preparation carry over to the topical preparation in light of this finding? Do let me know if you have any evidence to counter this, I'll happily fold.

 

[Captain Hook]

I implied it could be a cause. Just like in life, nothing is known for sure, and is explainable. I never said I disagreed with the studies you posted. You assumed that yourself. All I was saying, and am saying, is that you cannot know for certain what foods, herbs, meds etc, causes what reaction, with every single person. Western medicine is not the only answer to all our medical problems. Just because they have not found answers to certain things, does not mean they do not exist. Western medicine is actually very limited when you think about it. Treating the symptoms only is probably the worst way to deal with health issues.

Oh my. While I understand that everyone is different and certain people can experience side effects that other's do not. The only documented side effect for topical spironolactone cream is allergic reaction in the form of a rash, this could be the case with any medication though because allergies are individual. You've seen people in this forum, they freak out over the slightest change, don't you think if acid reflux was indeed a side effect of topical spironolactone it would be reported in both clinical studies and other anecdotal reports? While we cannot know for certain, you have no evidence to support your claims, I like to think the evidence in clinical studies and lack of other anecdotal reports are enough.

That being said, you have a poor understanding of Western medicine if you think treating the symptoms is the goal rather than curative intent. Look up Helicobacter pylori infection in relation to stomach ulcers, the treatment is curative antibiotic therapy. That's only one out of many examples.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Western medicine is as far as modern medicine has come, it's actually a bit of a misnomer as the Japanese practice 'Western' medicine as well. What are you comparing it to by the way? Chinese medicine? Alternative medicine? (homeopathy, read: bull****) Neither have been shown to be particularly effective otherwise they would be mainstream in hospitals. Effective treatments in Chinese medicine tend to contain active ingredients that already exist in other purified pharmaceutical grade products.

When Steve Jobs was diagnosed with cancer he rejected Western medicine in favour of alternative approaches and look how he turned out, he could've lived at least a little bit longer with proper treatment. Rejecting the most modern, effective and proven medical treatment we have is a fool's game.

 

[Gae Bolg]

Hi Captain Hook, as i see you are from HK too, where do u get your S5? from this site only? how was the shipment and the prices?Sorry but i tried to send a private message but no way.
thx a lot

 

[Captain Hook]

Hi Captain Hook, as i see you are from HK too, where do u get your S5? from this site only? how was the shipment and the prices?Sorry but i tried to send a private message but no way.
thx a lot

-Got my S5 from this site, on the HairLossTalk.com store

-I was at uni in Australia when I had it shipped, if I recall correctly it was about $15 USD for shipping and one pot of S5 is $35 USD.

 

[Norwood One]

The one here is pretty good.

Captain Hook, know any way we can make our own? Could end up being a lot cheaper. I think there were threads in the past where they crush aldactone tablets in dermovan cream.

 

[wingzero]

is it okay to slowly get off propecia and end up only using s5 cream /w rogain and completely stop using propecia ?

 

[Sheeny91]

How to apply topical spironolactone

How do you guys apply the spironolactone? Do you rub it in? How do you use with minoxidil as well? Cheers guys

 

[nate30]

Instructions on applying it can be found here: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/news/treatments/how-applying-s5-cream-to-scalp/

 

[Norwood One]

From my personal experience, S5 is most likely not going systemic. I've been using S5 for around 1.5 years now with no side effects (low libido or testicle ache. etc things common with a 5-AR inhibitor).

Compare that to finasteride. I recently tried that about a month ago and those sides I felt almost immediately.

 

[rcom440]

Read studies about topical spironolactone and drawn your own conclusion.

 

[nate30]

I've looked at some of the studies. It's widely acknowledged that oral spironolactone works for hair loss (although it's obviously not a good idea for men to take it orally). There do seem to be some anecdotal reports that it can be effective. It makes sense that only those users that apply enough would experience a benefit.

So how much spironolactone do you guys typically go through? I finished a jar in a little less than a month.