Topical Dutasteride-Who Will Give It A Shot?

[stabone1979]

Dr. Lee says that "Theoretically" a Topical Dutasteride that is absorbed through the skin, and retains its pharmacological properties, would be effective, b/c its method of action is to block the Type 1 enzyme, which is predominant in the scalp. Whereas, finasteride only blocks the less present type II. Therefore, the question remains if delivery of Topical dutasteride is possible? Avodart's prescribing info says it IS absorbed thru the skin in a topical form:

ethanol (44mg/mL), methanol (64 mg/mL) and polyethylene glycol 400 (3mg/mL). Any thoughts? Has anyone applied this solution for 6 months?

I know Lipoxidil sells the topical dutasteride but who knows if their product is an honest compound with their alleged liposomes.

 

[thylax]

NEVER break an avodart pill and NEVER apply dutasteride topically. I did this with a couple of pills and I got a severe and quite painful skin burn on my scalp, from the first application. In case someone does not believe this, he can google for dutasteride-related dermal/skin irritation and realize that this is the truth. But I was so obsessed with hairloss that I did not care. Needless to mention, that there was no benefit for my hair, due to the topical application of this medicine.

Apart from the severe skin irritation, if you break a dutasteride pill there is a chance of leakage and subsequent absorption by a pregnant woman, with the well known teratogenic effects on the fetus. This applies to broken finasteride pills as well (which I also applied topically for a couple of times, again with absolutely no benefit for my hair). Google it to verify on your own.

So please, if you want to fight hair loss, follow what the doctors and the scientific community suggests. If you decide to take avodart (I would not suggest this), take it orally as this medicine has been made and tested for.

 

[jimmystanley]

yes, topical dutasteride sounds great. is it a cream or a lotion?

 

[stabone1979]

Also, if proper absorption is attained dutasteride must remain at the receptor sites for a proper length of time, since many unsuccessful topicals are metabolized too quickly in the skin and are carried away in the bloodstream too quickly. Honestly, dutasteride seems to mess with peoples skin quite often. God I hope Dr Lee and his Biochemist come out with something even more effective than spironolactone 5%

 

[jimmystanley]

i am really considering it.

 

[jimmystanley]

so wierd that other guys aren't jumping at it

 

[Trent]

as soon as someone sells a version that i'm sure is legit, i'll give it a shot.

 

[thin=depressed]

Also, if proper absorption is attained dutasteride must remain at the receptor sites for a proper length of time, since many unsuccessful topicals are metabolized too quickly in the skin and are carried away in the bloodstream too quickly. Honestly, dutasteride seems to mess with peoples skin quite often. God I hope Dr Lee and his Biochemist come out with something even more effective than spironolactone 5%

dutasteride stays in the system for alot longer duration than finasteride so its quite easy to come to the conclusion that it would indeed "hang around" for a long enough time to do its job if absorbed on scalp. dutasteride is great at stopping dht but don't mislead yourselves into thinking its a growth stimulant.

 

[Guest]

where do you get it ??

i may try it?

 

[Bryan]

Dr. Lee says that "Theoretically" a Topical Dutasteride that is absorbed through the skin, and retains its pharmacological properties, would be effective, b/c its method of action is to block the Type 1 enzyme, which is predominant in the scalp. Whereas, finasteride only blocks the less present type II.

I think that's a good example of Dr. Lee at his least informed: the type II enzyme is far more associated with hairloss than the type I enzyme. That's probably because the enzyme in the hair follicle dermal papilla appears to be the type II version.

Bryan

 

[Brasileirao]

Dr. Lee says that "Theoretically" a Topical Dutasteride that is absorbed through the skin, and retains its pharmacological properties, would be effective, b/c its method of action is to block the Type 1 enzyme, which is predominant in the scalp. Whereas, finasteride only blocks the less present type II.

I think that's a good example of Dr. Lee at his least informed: the type II enzyme is far more associated with hairloss than the type I enzyme. That's probably because the enzyme in the hair follicle dermal papilla appears to be the type II version.

Bryan

I agree with you Bryan, doctor Lee seems to be a bit misssssssssinformed at times. I have respect for the man, but I take everything he says like a grain of salt, little bits at a time....

Tony

 

[Bryan]

Also, if proper absorption is attained dutasteride must remain at the receptor sites for a proper length of time, since many unsuccessful topicals are metabolized too quickly in the skin and are carried away in the bloodstream too quickly. Honestly, dutasteride seems to mess with peoples skin quite often. God I hope Dr Lee and his Biochemist come out with something even more effective than spironolactone 5%

dutasteride stays in the system for alot longer duration than finasteride so its quite easy to come to the conclusion that it would indeed "hang around" for a long enough time to do its job if absorbed on scalp.

Whoops! You're comparing apples and oranges. It's well-known that dutasteride has an unusually long half-life in the BLOOD SERUM (as long as five weeks or so, once it's achieved the steady-state level at the standard dose), but that ain't the same thing as how long it hangs around the skin and hair follicle after topical application. It might be FIVE WEEKS in the blood, but only FIVE MINUTES in the skin!

Bryan

 

[thin=depressed]

Also, if proper absorption is attained dutasteride must remain at the receptor sites for a proper length of time, since many unsuccessful topicals are metabolized too quickly in the skin and are carried away in the bloodstream too quickly. Honestly, dutasteride seems to mess with peoples skin quite often. God I hope Dr Lee and his Biochemist come out with something even more effective than spironolactone 5%

dutasteride stays in the system for alot longer duration than finasteride so its quite easy to come to the conclusion that it would indeed "hang around" for a long enough time to do its job if absorbed on scalp.

Whoops! You're comparing apples and oranges. It's well-known that dutasteride has an unusually long half-life in the BLOOD SERUM (as long as five weeks or so, once it's achieved the steady-state level at the standard dose), but that ain't the same thing as how long it hangs around the skin and hair follicle after topical application. It might be FIVE WEEKS in the blood, but only FIVE MINUTES in the skin!

Bryan

Its hard to imagine WHY it would stay in the blood that long and not the skin? After all the blood gets filtered by the liver when the scalp sees less blood flow than any other part of your body.Oh well

 

[The Gardener]

Bryan, what about the Rittmaster trials done to evaluate Dutasteride vs Finasteride.

I believe that they showed Type-1 inhibition to be much more effective at preventing hairloss than Type-2.

Additionally, in that study, they also mention that although Type-2 is more common in the body, Type-1 is more common in the scalp.

 

[Guest]

Dr. Lee says that "Theoretically" a Topical Dutasteride that is absorbed through the skin, and retains its pharmacological properties, would be effective, b/c its method of action is to block the Type 1 enzyme, which is predominant in the scalp. Whereas, finasteride only blocks the less present type II.

I think that's a good example of Dr. Lee at his least informed: the type II enzyme is far more associated with hairloss than the type I enzyme. That's probably because the enzyme in the hair follicle dermal papilla appears to be the type II version.

Bryan

I agree with you Bryan, doctor Lee seems to be a bit misssssssssinformed at times. I have respect for the man, but I take everything he says like a grain of salt, little bits at a time....

Tony

I concur.

And I also think Ol' Proctor talks kack sometimes.

I apprciate what they have done in helping us baldies but I sometimes think they have their little hair-loss product empires at the forefront of evrything they do.

The 'Ask Dr Proctor' thing on this site is shite. He is the king of one word answers and quite often says he doesn't know the answer. He must get quite a few questions everyday and he only picks one. So picking one that he has 'already answered' or one that he doesn't know the answer to is just downright lazy. i hope he isn't getting paid to do that.

Also, both of them look quite bald to me.

Other than that, I love them.

 

[Bismarck]

Bryan, what about the Rittmaster trials done to evaluate Dutasteride vs Finasteride.

I believe that they showed Type-1 inhibition to be much more effective at preventing hairloss than Type-2.

Additionally, in that study, they also mention that although Type-2 is more common in the body, Type-1 is more common in the scalp.

I remember inhibting only type I had no to little effect on balding. The dutasteride trials said that 2.5mg dutasteride are 1.5 times more effective than 5mg finasteride. It seems that serum DHT is more important for male pattern baldness than scalp DHT.

bis

 

[Bryan]

Whoops! You're comparing apples and oranges. It's well-known that dutasteride has an unusually long half-life in the BLOOD SERUM (as long as five weeks or so, once it's achieved the steady-state level at the standard dose), but that ain't the same thing as how long it hangs around the skin and hair follicle after topical application. It might be FIVE WEEKS in the blood, but only FIVE MINUTES in the skin!

Its hard to imagine WHY it would stay in the blood that long and not the skin? After all the blood gets filtered by the liver when the scalp sees less blood flow than any other part of your body.Oh well

I think you're looking at it kinda bass-ackwards!

First of all, as has been discussed a number of times on various hairloss sites, the scalp has an AMPLE blood supply. Second of all, certain substances are quite quickly and easily absorbed into the circulation when they are applied topically, assuming that they can get past the outer skin barrier in the first place. First they penetrate into the skin, then diffuse quickly into the bloodstream. I guess a good example of that would be DMSO! But what happens _after_ such a substance gets into the bloodstream is a separate issue...see what I mean? For example (continuing with DMSO as just an example), what does the liver do with DMSO when it sees it pass through in the bloodstream? It may do a lot with a specific substance like that, or it may do very litte...it depends on the specific chemical.

Dutasteride has a remarkably long half-life in the bloostream apparently because there is relatively little metabolism of the stuff in places like the liver. It keeps going and going like the Eveready Bunny for a long time (relatively speaking), because there's a lot less around in the way of natural enzymes that deactivate it! Finasteride, on the other hand, just because of its different chemical structure, is more of a target for natural enzymes in the body which metabolize it and deactivate it (like the complex set of cytochrome P-450 enzymes which evolved over the eons).

Do you see my point? Many substances just naturally tend to diffuse quickly into the bloodstream, if they're able to penetrate into the skin in the first place (there are obvious exceptions, like steroid ester depot injections that are immobile even under the skin and hang around for a long time, slowly releasing the drug). But what happens once chemicals _do_ get into the bloodstream is a separate issue, and can depend on many other factors.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

Bryan, what about the Rittmaster trials done to evaluate Dutasteride vs Finasteride.

I believe that they showed Type-1 inhibition to be much more effective at preventing hairloss than Type-2.

If you're referring to that early information about dutasteride vs. finasteride which was released by Rittmaster even before Avodart became available...no, that had nothing to do with hairloss at all. That was just information about serum and scalp DHT reduction by the two drugs. There was no testing for male pattern baldness.

An early study with stumptailed macaques showed that MK386 (a specific and potent type 1 inhibitor) had no apparent effect on balding, whereas finasteride _does_ work in macaques, just like in humans. Also, I've been told that Merck even did some human tests with MK386 for balding, and once again, it didn't work.

Additionally, in that study, they also mention that although Type-2 is more common in the body, Type-1 is more common in the scalp.

Yes. It's more common in whole scalp sections, because sebaceous glands are so rich in the type-1 enzyme. But the version in hair follicle dermal papillae is type 2, and that's almost certainly what's responsible for male pattern baldness.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

I remember inhibting only type I had no to little effect on balding. The dutasteride trials said that 2.5mg dutasteride are 1.5 times more effective than 5mg finasteride. It seems that serum DHT is more important for male pattern baldness than scalp DHT.

I disagree. I personally would put it this way: the most important is _follicular_ DHT. Second most important (a rather distant second, IMHO) would be serum DHT.

Bryan

 

[thin=depressed]

I remember inhibting only type I had no to little effect on balding. The dutasteride trials said that 2.5mg dutasteride are 1.5 times more effective than 5mg finasteride. It seems that serum DHT is more important for male pattern baldness than scalp DHT.

I disagree. I personally would put it this way: the most important is _follicular_ DHT. Second most important (a rather distant second, IMHO) would be serum DHT.

Bryan

Goooo bryan, Ya took the words right out of my mouth.