Topical Dose Conversion Of Ru58841 To Darolutamide

IdealForehead

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I've been trying to compare various data to help with sorting out darolutamide's equivalent strength to RU58841, and for anyone else interested in the theory I will post that data here.

Inhibition strength is determined by the IC50 data, which represents the concentration of a given anti-androgen required to block 50% of the androgen receptors present in the solution. The stronger the anti-androgen, the lower the IC50 data.

The difficulty with this is IC50 can be calculated many different ways (based on different chemical techniques), so it is only useful to compare when you have an "apples to apples" comparison in the same study. Comparing the raw numbers is not useful if they come from different studies.

So I have gone through the studies that exist comparing anti-androgens, and tried to use their data to work out rough conversions.

If you're not into chemistry, just skip to the bottom. :)

RAW DATA

1) Darolutamide vs. Enzalutamide vs, Apalutamide:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4490394/
- Darolutamide = 26 nm
- Darolutamide's major metabolite ORM-15341 = 38 nM
- Enzalutamide = 219 nM
- Apalutamide = 200 nM

Therefore, for 50% inhibition, enzalutamide requires 8.4x more concentration as darolutamide.

2) RU58841 vs. Hydroxyflutamide:
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...in-the-Bald-Scalp-of-Stumptailed-Macaques.pdf
- RU58841 = 100 nM
- Hydroxyflutamide =~ 100 nM (states as "similar")

Therefore, for 50% inhibition, RU58841 and hydroxyflutamide require approximately the same concentrations.


3) Bicalutamide vs. Hydroxyflutamide:
https://www.nature.com/pcan/journal/v1/n6/abs/4500262a.html
- Bicalutamide = 100 nM
- Hydroxyflutamide = 300 nM

Therefore, for 50% inhibition, hydroxyflutamide requires 3x the concentration of bicalutamide. This may be controversial as other studies have found these two to be closer to 1:1. ref


4) Enzalutamide vs. Bicalutamide
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2981508/
Enzalutamide = 21.4
Bicalutamide = 160 nM

Therefore, for 50% inhibition, bicalutamide requires 7.4x the concentration of enzalutamide.


DAROLUTAMIDE vs. RU58841
Based on this we can approximate that darolutamide is 8.4x more potent than enzalutamide, which is in turn 7.4x more potent than bicalutamide, which is in turn between 1-3x more potent than RU58841.

Therefore, darolutamide is likely approximately 62.16-186.5x more potent than RU58841.

Equivalent % of darolutamide to 5% RU58841:
RU58841 molar mass = 369.3 g/mol
Darolutamide molar mass = 398.8 g/mol

5% RU58841 = 100 mg RU / 2 mL solvent = 0.135 mM
Equivalent darolutamide concentration range = 0.0007239 mM to 0.00217 mM = 0.0289% to 0.0865%

Therefore, RU58841 5% is roughly equivalent to darolutamide 0.029-0.087%.
 
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whatevr

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I would love to get my hands on some of it. RU is not managing to keep my hair loss at bay, it sucks. My right side is still thinning further.
This puts into perspective why RU is such a weak antiandrogen.

We should be talking about a potential group buy. Anyone interested?
 

Jonnyyy

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I would love to get my hands on some of it. RU is not managing to keep my hair loss at bay, it sucks. My right side is still thinning further.
This puts into perspective why RU is such a weak antiandrogen.

We should be talking about a potential group buy. Anyone interested?
If you find out how to set one up message me!
 

IdealForehead

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I just wanted to post a follow up here based on my analysis I was doing yesterday on oral vs. topical half lives.

The comparison in the first post of this thread is based on the relative androgen antagonism of darolutamide vs. RU58841 in a stable test tube. It does not take into account their dramatically different half lives in the human body. Accounting for these differences in half lives, darolutamide may be even another ~16x stronger compared to RU than I previously estimated.

The full analysis is posted here. To summarize:

Topical vs Oral Half Lives
  • Topical half lives are generally longer than oral half lives, as the skin is less efficient in breaking down compounds than the liver.
  • Minoxidil's oral half life is 4.2 hours while its topical half life is 22 hours, representing a 5.2x longer topical than oral half life.
  • Retinoic acid's oral half life is 45 minutes while its topical half life is 2-2.5 hours, representing a 2.6-3.3x longer topical than oral half life.
  • We may perhaps roughly conclude that topical half lives will then be somewhere around 2.6-5.2x greater than oral half lives.
Applying to Darolutamide & RU
  • Darolutamide has an oral half life of 15.8 hours and breaks down by liver metabolism (skin metabolism may differ) into an equally powerful antiandrogen with another oral half life of 10.0 hours.
  • RU58841 has an oral half life of 1 hour.
  • Applying the multiplication factors above, this might suggest a topical half life of a minimum of 41-83 hours for darolutamide, and 2.6-5.2 hours for RU58841.
Conclusions
  • Darolutamide's effect in the skin will likely last at a minimum 15.8 times longer than RU58841 (and possibly much longer than even that if it is being metabolized to the same product by the skin as the liver).
  • The short half life (both oral and likely topical) of RU58841 is likely responsible for its low side effect rate but also low overall effectiveness.
  • It is impossible to calculate exactly how much darolutamide one would need topically to get an adequate effect, but likely even once daily or once every other day dosing would be effective, and likely even 0.1% would be overkill.
  • Formal human research studies are needed to properly establish the adequate dosing range, as darolutamide is dramatically more potent than any other anti-androgen for which topical hair loss treatment evidence exists.
 
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Jonnyyy

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Dang the half life of RU is 5 hours at most? Explains a lot honestly, I'm really surprised there isn't much hype around Daro
 

Saulus

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Doesnt this mean its potentially more dangerous due the longer halflife?
 
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