lets say you could completely wipe out type 2 dht(99-100 percent) wit 1mg of dutasteride, and type2 dht has shown to be the key factor in balding, if some one were to raise their testerone levels by 500 percent or more but since the type2 is wiped out where does all that test go that was suppose to change over to dht? would it infact raise your test levels even higher or would all that test go straight to estrogen? ALso lets just say type2 dht is the only cause of hairloss, obviously we dont know, but if test levels are this high without any type2 dht in our body would we infact never lose anymore hair even though or test levels are 500 times of what they are suppose to be.
tons of testerone and dutasteride
- Thread starter phish
- Start date
antonio666
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 5
in theory your right
- Reaction score
- 43
phish said:
It goes pretty much the same places that it ALWAYS goes, with the exception of being modified by 5a-reductase type 2. It circulates around the body and diffuses into tissues where it binds with androgen receptors, it gets inactivated by enzymes in the liver and then excreted into the urine, it gets modified by numerous steroidogenic enzymes and converted into other weaker androgens, a little of it gets converted into estrogen, a little of it gets converted into DHT by 5a-reductase type 1, etc. etc.
phish said:
The things I mentioned before would happen.
phish said:
I personally believe that other androgens besides DHT can also play a role in balding.
thanks bryan, after you said you believe other androgens could be the cause of hairloss as well, I did a little more research on all possible androgens, one in particular i didn't know much about is thought to cause hairloss.
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA): a steroid hormone produced in the adrenal cortex from cholesterol. It is the primary precursor of natural estrogens. DHEA is also called dehydroisoandrosterone or dehydroandrosterone.
Some assert that DHEA should not be supplemented outside specialist centres under careful observation of experts in the field of endocrinology.
Side effects may include:
* Stunted growth in teens who have not reached their height potential.[citation needed]
* Palpitations and other arrhythmias[citation needed]
* Extensive growth of body hair, or hirsutism[citation needed]
* Hair loss, especially male pattern baldness[citation needed]
* Acne[citation needed]
Pitts RL. Serum elevation of dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate associated with male pattern baldness in young men. J Am Acad Dermatol 1987 Mar;16(3 Pt 1):571-3
Eighteen men aged 18 to 32 with rapidly progressive male pattern baldness had serum dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate and testosterone measured. Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate levels were elevated in all patients, ranging from 340 to 730 micrograms/dl. The patients were otherwise healthy and serum testosterone levels were within normal limits. A control group of men of similar age without hair loss had lower dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate levels ranging from 124 to 300 micrograms/dl (p less than 0.005). The biochemistry of androgens, particularly dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, suggests that adrenal hyperactivity may initiate alopecia in young men who are genetically susceptible.
Regular exercise is known to increase DHEA production in the body
a lot of this is troubling to me because I lift weights heavily and thought I would be safe on propecia and eventually dutasteride.
heres a list of all possible known adrogens,
Besides testosterone, other androgens include:
* Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA): a steroid hormone produced in the adrenal cortex from cholesterol. It is the primary precursor of natural estrogens. DHEA is also called dehydroisoandrosterone or dehydroandrosterone.
* Androstenedione (Andro): an androgenic steroid produced by the testes, adrenal cortex, and ovaries. While androstenediones are converted metabolically to testosterone and other androgens, they are also the parent structure of estrone. Use of androstenedione as an athletic or body building supplement has been banned by the International Olympic Committee as well as other sporting organizations.
* Androstenediol: the steroid metabolite that is thought to act as the main regulator of gonadotropin secretion.
* Androsterone: a chemical by-product created during the breakdown of androgens, or derived from progesterone, that also exerts minor masculinising effects, but with one-seventh the intensity of testosterone. It is found in approximately equal amounts in the plasma and urine of both males and females.
* Dihydrotestosterone (DHT): a metabolite of testosterone, and a more potent androgen than testosterone in that it binds more strongly to androgen receptors. It is produced in the adrenal cortex.
perhaps dht is the main factor in hairloss, along with dhea over time who knows but its interesting to try and find more pieces to the puzzle.
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA): a steroid hormone produced in the adrenal cortex from cholesterol. It is the primary precursor of natural estrogens. DHEA is also called dehydroisoandrosterone or dehydroandrosterone.
Some assert that DHEA should not be supplemented outside specialist centres under careful observation of experts in the field of endocrinology.
Side effects may include:
* Stunted growth in teens who have not reached their height potential.[citation needed]
* Palpitations and other arrhythmias[citation needed]
* Extensive growth of body hair, or hirsutism[citation needed]
* Hair loss, especially male pattern baldness[citation needed]
* Acne[citation needed]
Pitts RL. Serum elevation of dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate associated with male pattern baldness in young men. J Am Acad Dermatol 1987 Mar;16(3 Pt 1):571-3
Eighteen men aged 18 to 32 with rapidly progressive male pattern baldness had serum dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate and testosterone measured. Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate levels were elevated in all patients, ranging from 340 to 730 micrograms/dl. The patients were otherwise healthy and serum testosterone levels were within normal limits. A control group of men of similar age without hair loss had lower dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate levels ranging from 124 to 300 micrograms/dl (p less than 0.005). The biochemistry of androgens, particularly dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, suggests that adrenal hyperactivity may initiate alopecia in young men who are genetically susceptible.
Regular exercise is known to increase DHEA production in the body
a lot of this is troubling to me because I lift weights heavily and thought I would be safe on propecia and eventually dutasteride.
heres a list of all possible known adrogens,
Besides testosterone, other androgens include:
* Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA): a steroid hormone produced in the adrenal cortex from cholesterol. It is the primary precursor of natural estrogens. DHEA is also called dehydroisoandrosterone or dehydroandrosterone.
* Androstenedione (Andro): an androgenic steroid produced by the testes, adrenal cortex, and ovaries. While androstenediones are converted metabolically to testosterone and other androgens, they are also the parent structure of estrone. Use of androstenedione as an athletic or body building supplement has been banned by the International Olympic Committee as well as other sporting organizations.
* Androstenediol: the steroid metabolite that is thought to act as the main regulator of gonadotropin secretion.
* Androsterone: a chemical by-product created during the breakdown of androgens, or derived from progesterone, that also exerts minor masculinising effects, but with one-seventh the intensity of testosterone. It is found in approximately equal amounts in the plasma and urine of both males and females.
* Dihydrotestosterone (DHT): a metabolite of testosterone, and a more potent androgen than testosterone in that it binds more strongly to androgen receptors. It is produced in the adrenal cortex.
perhaps dht is the main factor in hairloss, along with dhea over time who knows but its interesting to try and find more pieces to the puzzle.
retropunk
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 0
phish said:
No, DHEA will not directly cause hair loss. It's an INDIRECT precursor to testosterone and estrogens. It's general acceptance that anything that may eventually become testosterone may cause hair loss.
Unless you take a large amount of DHEA supplements, I don't think there's anything to worry about. DHEA may cause your DHT to spike, but I belileve you need to take hundreds of mg of this supplement to do anything. You may want to check this out.
blueshard
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 0
this topic comes up all the time and I am still confused as to whether dutasteride is going to be harmful to those really sensitive to the other androgens involved in balding. I assume it would be counterproductive for some, but the studies suggest otherwise.
