The science of intermittent fasting | HairLossTalk Forums

The science of intermittent fasting

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Afro_Vacancy, Apr 19, 2016.

  1. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    Good talk on intermittent fasting. It was presented by a PhD scientist at NSCA's 2013 National Conference.


    [video=youtube;-rzx_LAf6dk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rzx_LAf6dk[/video]

    This is related to general health, not to hair loss. I know of no link between hair loss and calories eaten.

    I've now done three 36 hour fasts, as in:
    Eat dinner on Monday, go to sleep, eat nothing on Tuesday, wake up on Wednesday morning and have breakfast

    It makes me feel great and I plan to do 1 36-hour fast a week when not travelling in perpetuity.
     
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  2. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    Common stages of water fasting
    http://www.curezone.org/faq/q.asp?a=25,1787,2836&q=759

    - - - Updated - - -

    User seemingly cures symptoms of post-finasteride syndrome (brain fog, erectile dysfunction) with 14-day water fast.
    http://propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6142&sid=b0c33aea0b7a400da4f16f1bc1517526

    - - - Updated - - -

    [h=1]Can fasting for two days each week stop dementia? It sounds far-fetched, but scientists think slashing calories may combat a host of illnesses[/h]

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ries-combat-host-illnesses.html#ixzz46m8ZAHIq
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    - - - Updated - - -

    [h=1]Fasting for Health[/h]
    [h=2][/h]Posted by Dr. Ben Kim on Dec 15, 2006
    http://drbenkim.com/fasting.html

     
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  3. Rockinlove

    Rockinlove Established Member

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    I am a proponent of intermittent fasting(IF) as well. Tried it for two months until my affliction with Telogen Effluvium; the cause of which might be dutasteride or intermittent fasting.

    What is you regimen now?

    Do you apply minoxidil or pop dutasteride/finasteride on the day that you fast or skip 'em entirely?



     
  4. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    I did finasteride for 1 month and stopped since i have ED. It's not responsible of me to take finasteride when i should first heal ED.

    My regimen was one 36-hour fast/week while not travelling. Currently travelling for three weeks though so I'm on break.

    I've done three of these 36-hour fasts, they got easier over time. I wonder how my body will heal if I do 20 or 30.

    I find the link to the guy who did a 21-day fast on propecia help to be fascinating.
     
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  5. Rockinlove

    Rockinlove Established Member

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    I usually drink green tea during my fasts. The fasting has granted me a deeper voice, garnered better fitness results and has made my skin tighter. Apart from that my sex drive has increased expotentially.

    I intend to re-initiate intermittent fasts after June (six month post treatments) and should give my body enough time to stabilise.

    However, I am not certain if it would help with hair loss as it sporadically increases testosterone levels.

     
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  6. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    There is no evidence, as far as I have searched, that fasting has any positive or negative effect on hair loss. My instinct would be that reduced calorie consumption slows down (but doesn't reverse) hair loss since it slows down general ageing, but that is without convincing evidence.

    What kind of fasting protocol are you using? Did the deeper voice stay with you? Are you sure you actually have a deeper voice? What are these treatments you took in December/January?

    I'm now travelling which makes fasting really hard as I like eating local foods when travelling. I think I will try "8-hour eating window" during the weekday for the next two weeks. Beginning today, I skipped breakfast. This is a very minor and relatively easy form of fasting.

    I do take both tea (all colours) and coffee during my fasting periods. If I were to do an extended fast I would have to think more carefully about that due to issues with pH.
     
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  7. Rockinlove

    Rockinlove Established Member

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    Nonsense. It has been well established that intermittent fasting increases human growth hormone by over 2000 percent. And HGH levels also co-relate to a proportionate increase in testosterone. How else do you explain the recovery from ED?

    I am not certain as to how this would impact hair loss as in certain instances high growth hormone levels may help hair growth.

    People have remarked that my voice has changed during instances of meeting them post intermittent fasting so it is unlikely to be a mere coincidence. I also follow no-fap religiously.

    I started with dutasteride in January and it was also when I experienced significant Telogen Effluvium.


     
  8. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    Human growth hormone increases after a day of fasting, if i recall correctly. Does it increase long-term? What happens to the other hormones? So on its own I'm reluctant to say that fasting has either a positive or negative impact on hair, I'd love to see it tested though.

    So, what kind of fasting protocol did you follow?
     
  9. buckthorn

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    The only reason I wouldn't attempt fasting is that I am 95% certain, in my case, it would lead to Telogen Effluvium.
     
  10. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    A good concern with long-term water fasts of 7-30 days, but unrelated to the issue of a lot of short-term fasting protocols like the 8-hour eating window (from Lean Gains / Martin Berkhan) or 36 hour fasts and so on.
     
  11. buckthorn

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    yes, I agree. I actually "fast" almost every day. I wake up, eat breakfast, then just drink water until night and eat again. About 10-12 hours in between.
     
  12. Rockinlove

    Rockinlove Established Member

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    It does remain elevated for about a week or so. I suppose your T levels would increase as well and it can do wonders if you want visible gains from an intense exercise regime within a short span of time.

    As for hair, I am uncertain and the only reason for going off it was due to the disruptive change to hormones which may further exacerbate my Telogen Effluvium.

    However, the increase in HGH and telomerase lengths may be positives for hair growth.

    I'd have breakfast and skip lunch and dinner until breakfast the next day. Approximately a 25 hour fasting period. Would avoid caffeine as it affects your adrenal glands and stick to green tea which has a very low caffeine content. That is two glasses at the most. Interestingly, the ECGC in green tea also increases HGH by approximately 300 percent.

     
  13. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    I'm travelling in Scandinavia for three weeks, and the food is amazing. Plus, going out for lunch/dinner is part of socializing.

    So I'm following the 8-hour eating window (1230 to 830pm, approximately) as a gimmick to limit food intake. It means I appreciate my few meals more, and it cuts the carbs I was having at breakfast. Some argue that the 16 hours of fasting is good for the body but who knows.

    A friend of mine has been trying 1 meal a day for a few days. He has a major weight problem, he is 6'1 and weighs 280 lbs. He pointed out that he really savours his meals, because he only gets one.
     
  14. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    https://aeon.co/essays/is-fasting-good-for-you-what-we-know-so-far
    Article of someone who took a 7-day fast.

    This guy seemed to have had a mixed reaction to fasting. I'll note though that he did an intermediate-term fast (7 days), and for some reason he decided to include a lot of physical activity during his fast. If I'm fasting (I might try 7 days now) the most physical activity I'll include will be walking, maybe ~75 minutes a day of extra walking above base walking, but this guy did 4-hour hiking trips and that sort of thing.
     
  15. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    Large info dump on benefits of short-term / intermittent fasting (e.g. 16 hours, 36 hours), and intermediate-to-long term fasting (more than 7 days). My scanning of the internet suggests benefits from fasting for weight, blood pressure, diabetes, concentration, ageing, depression, arthritis, and epilepsy, among others.

    Short-term fasting induces autophagy,
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21106691
    A process by which the most decayed cells in your body are recycled.

    Also, intermittent fasting is more effective than calorie restriction at reducing body fat without reducing muscle. Both reduce body fat and and body mass, but calorie restriction also reduces muscle:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21410865
    However, that is from a review paper unfortunately. It is not from a rigorous double-blind placebo-controlled trial. It's estimated that 90% of weight loss from intermittent calorie restriction is from fat, compared to 75% from daily calorie restriction. So you lose ~60% less muscle. That's a massive change.

    Separately, from youtube, intermittent fasting may help with mental clarity:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UkZAwKoCP8
    I link it as a link rather than a video because there is a limit of one video per post.

    A 1-week fast for GQ magazine, the guy says it cured his arthritis:
    http://www.healthpromoting.com/sites/default/files/GQ Fasting Article - TrueNorth Health.PDF

    This was the cover story of Harper's Magazine in March 2012
    http://media.wix.com/ugd/03997d_422ba2e2c279e899b8d1c3de71f1b1e7.pdf
    Starving Yourself to Vigor
    By Steve Hendricks
    It's 11 pages long, the man did a 20-day water fast which he covered in the article, along with a history of fasting as a medical treatment. It's well-written. He lost 25 lbs, and he kept 20 lbs of weight off over the next two years. 1 pound per day is typical for intermediate-length fasts.

    Another video on water fasting,1 hour talk by a doctor who supervises a water fasting clinic:
    [video=youtube;6FOBa_hfbRE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOBa_hfbRE[/video]
    They had a study where the patients lost 26 lbs at the end of the fast (average length of 21 days), then when they were followed up several months later they had lost 2 additional pounds. They kept the weight off. This is in stark contrast to the reports from the biggest loser study, where nearly all participants on that show regain their weight or more. Why the difference?

    I can think of two possibilities:
    1) Losing weight with cardio is a bad strategy, your rest metabolism crashes to compensate.
    2) Weight lost with ketosis is more likely to stay off. The hormones don't fight back.

    BTW this is the study:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12470446
    Blood pressure drops significantly, and it's suggested that with long-term water fasting it would converge to 90/60. The patients in the study all lost weight, typically 1 pound per day of water fast, and surprisingly, the weight stays off during follow-up !

    In the 1970s a paper was published on a 27 year-old male who did a 382-day water fast, where he consumed water, multivitamins/minerals, salts, some yeast. He lost 276 lbs. This paper goes over the science and his blood work in great details. They gave him some supplements, but very few.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/pdf/postmedj00315-0056.pdf
    Apparently, he only regained 16 lbs, or ~6% of the lost weight, in the five years after his water fast ended.
    http://cristivlad.com/total-starvation-382-days-without-food-study/
    He should be 70 years old now. I wonder if he's still alive, and if he's healthy.

    *********

    In separate news, I'm sure most of you have heard of The Biggest Loser news, spurred by a long article in The New York Times
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html?_r=0
    And thus a bunch of copycat "me 2" article from other news organizations.

    The contestants of the biggest loser, a popular American reality TV show, often lose a huge amount of weight in a short time, for example hundreds of pounds in six months. They'd been followed-up in a study, and nearly all of them regain their weight or even more in the years following in spite of trying hard to keep it off. Researchers have shown that their metabolism is very slow, they burn hundreds of calories less a day than they should for someone their weight. I didn't fully understand the article, for example how would they know if their metabolisms are slower than they sued to be because of the biggest loser? Did anybody measure their metabolism before the show started?

    Perhaps this information is in the real study and did not make it into the NY Times article. The article mentions nothing about what the contestants are eating (carbs, fats, or proteins), and I can't tell what kind of exercise they're doing. One guy sounds like he's working out 4 hours a day, eating little, and gaining weight.

    I would have to look into this and other anecdotal information more carefully, but I'm beginning to suspect that long, cardiovascular exercise doesn't work as a weight loss method. In the short-term it works (clearly), but in the medium term the body adapts with a vengeance by reducing rest metabolism and increasing hunger. I'm back in town next week, I think I'm going to reduce cardio to one day a week and it will include at least 50% HIIT. On that day I will eat more fruit, so that my cardio will be metabolically neutral.
     
  16. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    I suspect the health benefits of red wine and alcohol in moderation are overestimated by people who just want to get in the news. They might actually be good for you but if you listen to the media, red wine and dark chocolate are two superfoods. Good foods at best imo.

    Calorie restriction is a great idea if you can get used to it. Will thin you out and slow down the ageing process.

    Mediterannean diet is a myth though. There is no perfect diet.

    Carbohydrates are almost certainly the main cause of obesity, though pizza isn't worse than pasta, doughnuts, and candy bars.
     
  17. kveezy33

    kveezy33 Member

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    Saying any macro-nutrient is bad is overly simplifying it. Vegetables are primarily carbohydrate, but nobody would say they spur obesity. What seems to be the case is that overly processed foods are the culprit. Potatoes are great for you, but french fries are awful.
     
  18. Afro_Vacancy

    Afro_Vacancy Senior Member My Regimen

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    Vegetables are actually very low in carbs. That's why they'e good for you, they're much closer to being multivitamins than to being flour. Vegetables give you a lot of water, fibre, vitamins, other nutrients, at the expense of very few calories.

    Potatoes are actually a matter of debate. And virtually nobody eats potatoes raw, if it's not french fries then people are having mashed potatoes, greek potatoes, etc. Very few people eat the skin.
     
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  19. kveezy33

    kveezy33 Member

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    How is it a matter of debate? Cooking method matters. You don't have to eat it raw, there are plenty of other methods of cooking i.e. steaming, boiling. Saying that people don't use those methods doesn't change anything. The average American diet is godawful. If you fry the hell out of vegetables, it will greatly reduce the nutrient content and will overall be bad for you.
    http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=48
     
  20. hairwegoes

    hairwegoes Member

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    so one can eat food and still be fasting? 500-800 calories? or one has to drink only water? If eat fruit and veggies 500-800vals the body is still fasting? Im confused.

    Its funny when young from 13-18 i only ate 3 meals per day..breakfast at 8am, dinner between 6-7pm and supper about 10pm...So i had a 10hr fast and a 10-11hr fast twice per day. At 18 though i was a skinny guy i still looked same as i did when i was like 13/14 which i guess is a bad thing BUT it shows that the fasting and low calorie can prevent ageing? Then again i guess its common to look young and have full head of hair at 18. It wasnt until I started bodybuilding and guzzling multiple weight gainer shakes per day for 3-4 years that i then noticed hair loss and looked older etc.....


    Recently i started eating healthy again and less food and done a few fast, 36hrs twice then a 5 day apple fast...My skin and appearance look better and more youthful but im not sure it will help my hair?
     
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