The positive side of Hair Loss in 2007.

[Durandel]

Reading some of the posts here is just depressing. It seems a lot of people here just love to wallow in self pity. Personally, I'm taking a more positive view. I'm 38 and losing my har pretty badly. I have a large-ish bald patch on the vertex, nasty frontal recession and the front "tuft" is getting more obvious by the day.

I've had a few negitive comments, but I'm aware that the person cares most about my hair loss is me. No-one else looks at me with such a brutally critical eye. Most people simply register that I have less hair and that's it. My freinds may occasionally make a joke. People assume I'm a little older than I am and may think me a bit less attractive, but it's mostly my own self image that suffers. Am I happy about it? No. I've bought loads of expensive stuff but it's all ineffective rubbish really.

Hair loss makes me feel bad about the way I look, but it also prompts new action. As it's become more obvious I've started to compensate in other areas. I'm improving my physique and generally making the most of myself. In a country where obesity and poor nutrition are rising rapidly, I am going in the other direction. I'm going to live longer and feel better. Thanks to hair loss.

At the same time I live in a world where medical science is on the verge of a revolution. The HM treatments discussed here are closely related to many other areas of regenerative research going on all over the world. This is about much more than hair loss - this technology is going to underpin the medics of the future. HM is a viable system and will undoubtedly be with us in the next few years.

So my hair loss is just a temporary condition that I have to put up with for a few more years. In the meantime it prompts me to go to the gym and make the most of myself. In a few years I'm going to get a HM treatment and soon afterwards I'll have great hair to go with a great bod.

So what's the impact of hair loss on me? Well it makes me fell bad about the way I look, but also makes me try harder than people with full hair. Most of all it makes me feel frustrated, because I know this is just a phase and that I'll have a full head of hair in just a few years.

 

[s.a.f]

Ha, you seem fairly sure of HM, :roll: dont you know people have been saying exactly what you just posted since the millenium? and here we are nearly 8yrs later and still no HM in site. Also you're pushing 40 I expect you have much more that just a small degree of hairloss to deal with in life.
When the likes of Bruce Willis and Vin Diesel start growing full heads of hair then you can expect HM to be available to the common man a few years after that.
IMO we'll see heart and lung multiplication a long time before we see hair multiplication.
Imagine the emotional effect on a 20 yr old who's supposedly at their physical peak. For someone you're age nasty recession and a thinning vertex are hardly exceptional.

 

[Durandel]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree.

Ha, you seem fairly sure of HM

I am. Two rival companies are preparing to bring it to market. There is no doubt that the technique works; we're just waiting to see how well. The principle behind it is underpinned by the same cellular growth technology that's being researched for many other treatments. This is the future, and HM will lead the way in a blaze of profit and mainstream acceptance.

dont you know people have been saying exactly what you just posted since the millenium?

Fair enough. But looking at the two HM contenders serious research into cellular HM seems to have begun about 5 years ago. Before then it might have been discussed but it was mostly just theory. It's now a reality that's being actively prepared for commercial release.

When the likes of Bruce Willis and Vin Diesel start growing full heads of hair then you can expect HM to be available to the common man a few years after that.

Maybe, but I doubt it. I think it's too big an thing for them to play the "exclusive clinics" card for long. Besides, I'm not sure if Vin or Bruce would actually do it at all. Thier public images are worth a hell of a lot, and I doubt either of them feels too bad inside! Wonder if the same goes for Donald Trump and his amazing comb over?

IMO we'll see heart and lung multiplication a long time before we see hair multiplication.

Why? How? Progress in a liberal economy is driven by profit and opportunity. Leaving aside my answers above, consider the practicalities.

The technology to regrow a whole organ, such as a lung, is way off yet. Such programmes would be life-critical, surgically intensive and very hard to trial. The risks, and the consequences of failure, would be huge. Transplantation would be horribly expensive and demand, while urgent, would not be widespread. Not at first, anyway.

Alternatively the technology to regrow hair is a lab proven reality right now, and the profits to be made from HM are fantastic. The procedure is cosmetic, non-surgical, quick and the consequences of failure are trivial. The potentially huge application and profitability of HM would help those inolved in cellular regeneration to improve and refine techniques, with inevitable benefits to other related (and more critical) medical procedures.

Imagine the emotional effect on a 20 yr old who's supposedly at their physical peak.

I'm guessing you're a twenty-something male? Seriously though, I understand that it's easier to be losing your hair when your peers are losing thiers. If not, the shock must be harsh. For young men, and for women of any age, hair loss must feel terrible. But if I was in that position today I'd be delighted to know that a genuine solution was coming. I'd be pissed off at the moment, but I'd know it was a phase that'd pass.

For someone you're age nasty recession and a thinning vertex are hardly exceptional.

Hmm. So what? Try it and see how you feel! I'll be damned if I'm growing old gracefully.

 

[s.a.f]

We'll see if your optimism is valid, but I think that regrowing human cells for life saving purposes is taking priority in the medical world over HM despite the profits that could be made from it.

 

[Durandel]

We'll see if your optimism is valid, but I think that regrowing human cells for life saving purposes is taking priority in the medical world over HM despite the profits that could be made from it.

Is this site about the promotion and growth of hair, or the promotion and growth of hair loss related depression? This isn't a question of morality or priority. None of that is relevant, since HM has been researched and is being developed for release in a few years. Why deliberately ignore things that are actually happening just for the sake of being negative? You're choosing to believe something that's contradicted by economics, history, logic and fact, simply so that you can feel really hopeless!

 

[bobs]

Well it's certainly better to start loosing your hair now than it was five years ago and with the same logic it is better to start loosing your hair five years from now than now but the logic will abruptly end in one or two more recursive-runs.

 

[astral week]

I can vouch for 20 year olds losing their hair, it sucks and is definitely a different game than losing it at 30+. I mean I realized I was losing my hair less than a year after losing my virginity haha. I can't even legally drink yet.

I applaud your optimism though, we could use more of it on this forum. I mean, what else are all these smileys for?

:woot: :whistle: :jump: :hairy: :mrgreen: :hump:

 

[Re75]

" this technology is going to underpin the medics of the future." Yeah the future of when we will be old men or dead, it's more for our children or the ones not born yet that will reap the benefits. As far as HM, you seem way over-optimistic about how much it can regrow ... So far, and correct me if I'm wrong, we havn't seen in any of the phase trials someone sprouting elvis-like hair after long term-male pattern baldness. I'm guessing if we get to try anything in the next 10 years the hope is that it can regrow something to just cosmetically-passable. Sorry to be a bubble burster but thats how I see it.

I agree about focusing on other things. Losing my hair in my early 20s is the worst but if I work hard and at least keep myself as healthy as I can and with as good of a body as I can have through fitness at least when you look for women and they judge you, they can see everything else you take care of as best you can, and that even though your hair is fickle (and its something you can't help) you have vitality and purpose. For whatever that's worth in their eyes.

 

[Durandel]

I applaud your optimism though, we could use more of it on this forum. I mean, what else are all these smileys for?

Well it's certainly better to start loosing your hair now than it was five years ago and with the same logic it is better to start loosing your hair five years from now than now but the logic will abruptly end in one or two more recursive-runs.

I'm glad some people here aren't so far gone that they're totally blind to the possibilities. The future may not turn out quite as rosy as I paint it, but you can be damn sure it's not as bleak as most people here are making out!

Yeah the future of when we will be old men or dead, it's more for our children or the ones not born yet that will reap the benefits.

That's just blatantly wrong. We're talking about injectable fibroblasts here, not complete organ regeneration. I know of at least one product (Vavelta) coming out in early 2008 based on this technology. Both HM companies have been talking in terms of 2-3 years for initial release. Development is well underway. You're just choosing to ignore the facts so that you can carry on feeling sorry for yourself.

As far as HM, you seem way over-optimistic about how much it can regrow ... So far, and correct me if I'm wrong, we havn't seen in any of the phase trials someone sprouting elvis-like hair after long term-male pattern baldness. I'm guessing if we get to try anything in the next 10 years the hope is that it can regrow something to just cosmetically-passable. Sorry to be a bubble burster but thats how I see it.

It's true that I can't state how well HM v1.0 will work, but neither can you! The few quoted stats we have had suggest much more positive outcomes. Even if it is crap when it comes out it'll improve quickly as the related science improves and clinicians experiment. You're just choosing to believe that it's going to be poor so that you can carry on feeling sorry for yourself.

For whatever that's worth in their eyes.

Oh, cry me a river! You live at a time when a revolution in treatment for your condition is imminent. Your body is in its best potential and you're actively developing it. Your life is all ahead of you, and it looks great. Get a positive mindset, a muscular chest and (if the hair loss is visible) a buzz cut. The girls'll be all over you. Alternatively you can just focus on being a negative downer and carry on feeling sorry for yourself.

 

[bobs]

I understand both sides of this discussion.
Durandel, people who have been on the hairloss-scene for a longer time are used to being dissapointed and are careful on new treatments. I have not, I am a newbie so I like to share your enthusiasm but I am still careful. I dont expect HM to come out and save us any time very soon. I think it will come out but in 5-10 years it will be very good.
However, you are right in what you say to get on living, and maybe even live better than before.
I remember before I had hairloss issues I was working very hard and I was stressed out of my mind, I used to smoke, drink and I didnt excercise too much. Now I'm trying hard to cut all this down.

So I am all with you on this and I think you have the right frame of mind but I understand the others too. all in all it comes down to life philosophy and how you want to deal with things. I too, like you, think that I will get on treatments now, hopefully hold on to what I have and get on living happily and then one day, BANG, go and get HM and have this thing dealt with. And if HM doesnt come out maybe something else will and if not then well, f*** it.

 

[s.a.f]

So far, and correct me if I'm wrong, we havn't seen in any of the phase trials someone sprouting elvis-like hair after long term-male pattern baldness. I'm guessing if we get to try anything in the next 10 years the hope is that it can regrow something to just cosmetically-passable.

Am I missing something? So far I have'nt seen anything in terms of results (photographic eveidence)? from the HM companies.
But it was my understanding that HM was supposed to be the perfect solution, limitless donor hair that would allow you to have as much density as was surgicaly possible. And given that the best hair transplant surgeons can implant upto 125 hairs per cm2 that would surely be good enough. Combine that with the ability to put a hairline as low you want. Hey if you've got as many (cloned) hairs as you want you can bring your hairline down to your eyebrows if you like!

So taking all this into account if trials are going well and we're only a year or two (again/still :roll: ) away from HM being available to the common man why are'nt we seeing the results in terms of ex baldies with new full heads of hair?
Or am I the only one who missed it when these companies showed their results that have got so many people on here so excited. :dunno:

 

[Durandel]

Why are you so determined to ignore/misrepesent this?

No-one has said it's only going to be "a year or two" - both companies have said that public release is at least a couple of years off and the trials/development are still in progress. Confidence seems high that HM will be out by the end of this decade, but that's not at all definite. You're certainly not going to see full reports and images just yet.

However in September 2007 Intercytex reported that:

A further 8 subjects will be treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on all subjects at 24 weeks will be available in the middle of 2008. This detailed analysis will form the basis of further Phase II or Phase III trials as appropriate.

At the end of the trial photographic data will be analysed from a much larger area of treated scalp on all subjects at 12 months. Currently 2 patients have been lost to follow up.

They also reported that:

In this study, hair counts are obtained by shaving and photographing a small section of scalp, injecting it and then applying a specialised image analysis system to provide a total hair count. Two sub-groups were each injected with autologous DP cells using different delivery techniques. The first group focussed on delivery of the hair inductive DP cells, and in the second group resident hair producing (epithelial) cells were also stimulated at the time of delivery.

Although it is too early to determine fully the differences between the sub-groups, the preliminary data are encouraging. In the first sub-group 2 patients out of 5 showed substantial increases in hair count (21 & 55%) at 24 weeks. In the second sub-group (5 patients in total) injected more recently, all patients showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at 6 and/or 12 weeks (13-105%). We believe this increased hair production is attributable to the interaction between the injected DP cells and the stimulated resident hair producing cells.

The data is vague, but that's only to be expected from an quickie "taster" report of early trial results. Nevertheless it's clear that HM works and is now being developed for optimal delivery as a commercial product. As for your original point, we should expect to see a lot more stuff later in 2008.

I can understand that people might not want to get their hopes up too high. However, I really don't understand why anyone would simply ignore/refute the progress and statements being made by the two rival companys developing HM.

http://www.intercytex.com/icx/investors ... 5E&t=popup

 

[s.a.f]

I'm not ignoring it but it just sounds too good to be true and theres been no physical evidence, just trials phase 1... phase 2... phase3... ect that tells us nothing of what exactly is happening.
I'm just amazed by all the guys on here who are talking about it like its real. Just like they have been doing for the past 7 yrs. We'll see... :shakehead:

 

[tonyunhawk]

I think the chances to get a man pregnant are much higher than to have
HM available in the next 20 years but good luck anyway.

If you would make your research, talk to leading hair transplant surgeons (or read their bloggs etc. ).
Then you would know where the standard is and what the expectations for the next
few years are. Don't expect too much...

If you don't believe us or the surgeons then talk to Nick Cage, Bruce Willis, Jude Law, Beckham, and so on and on and on...............

 

[Durandel]

If Hair Multiplication has been seriously discussed since the turn of the millennium, then that sounds about right. Did you think it would arrive overnight? And because it didn't, will you now ignore all evidence and insist it never will arrive? There have been no reasoned arguments to refute the quotations and logic I've used. All I've seen is irrational negative opinion that it won't work and won't happen. Do you really enjoy wallowing in each others self pity so much that you'll deny every ray of hope, no matter how bright?

Obviously the data you're after isn't going to be released until development is pretty much complete and the product is much closer to release. This isn't just another snake-oil topical treatment we're talking about here. Both HM companies are running proper research laboratories, and have invested many millions into research. They both have protocol, regulation, legal and commercial issues to worry about. And in the meantime I don't care what movie stars and hair transplant doctors think; they are neither impartial nor qualified. Show me a rebuttal of the HM principle from a research scientist with experience in cellular regeneration.

Bottom line, these are two credible companies making exciting claims. You've seen the quotes I've used. You may also have read the websites and seen the interviews. This is not some dodgy internet product; if these companies are making false claims then they'll be sued into the ground and professional reputations will be ruined.

The "big 3" are out-dated, unpleasant and appallingly unreliable. hair transplant is invasive, complex and cosmetically risky. A new wave is coming, whether you accept it or not. I feel good about the future because I do accept it. HM v1.0 won't be perfect, but it'll be a big improvement on what we've got now. It's coming some time in the next 2 to 5 years, and it'll mark the beginning of the end for hair loss.

Anyhow, I know I can't convince you guys. I'm also uncomfortable with the unhealthy degree of self pity and desperation I've seen generally throughout the community. I won't be dragged down with you, so I'll say good bye and leave you to it.

 

[s.a.f]

I feel good about the future because I do accept it. HM v1.0 won't be perfect, but it'll be a big improvement on what we've got now. It's coming some time in the next 2 to 5 years, and it'll mark the beginning of the end for hair loss.

I'm not disputing that they future will be much brighter for hairloss sufferers, of course they'll be improvements but look how long its taken to get where we are with the current treatments?
I just wish people would stop talking about it until its actually here! :nono:
And making predictions of 2 yrs etc. In the meantime there's no point in getting your hopes up about something that DOES NOT EXIST YET!

 

[Durandel]

I did say I wouldn't post again, but I just wanted to show this:

http://www.intercytex.com/icx/news/rele ... 007-12-18/

ICX-TRC

ICX-TRC is a novel hair regeneration product. It consists of a suspension of autologous dermal papilla (DP) cells. These cells are able to stimulate the generation of new hairs when injected into the scalp in close proximity to the epithelial cells which generate the hair.

In September this year we announced the first results from the current Phase II trial. In the sub-group of subjects (5 in total) whose scalp was pre-stimulated at the time of injection all subjects showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at 6 and/or 12 weeks (13-105%). We believe this increased hair production is attributable to theinteraction between the injected DP cells and the stimulated resident hair producing cells.

A further 5 subjects have now been treated with ICX-TRC using the pre-stimulation technique with 2 more expected in January. By the end of March 2008 we expect to announce preliminary 12 week data on up to 16 subjects in total and preliminary 24 week data on up to 10 subjects.

[/quote]

HM is real, it's already working in trials and it's now being developed for maximum performance. None of this is in doubt. It's a mystery to me why people here choose to deny HM progress. Why use weak and unsupportable arguments to make hair loss seem more hopeless than it really is? Why destroy hope when the prospects look so bright?

How much regrowth HM will provide we can't say for sure yet, but it's looking very exciting. Don't let people who are negative for the sake of it drag you down.

 

[ripple-effect]

Reading some of the posts here is just depressing. It seems a lot of people here just love to wallow in self pity.

Do you really enjoy wallowing in each others self pity so much that you'll deny every ray of hope, no matter how bright?

Anyhow, I know I can't convince you guys. I'm also uncomfortable with the unhealthy degree of self pity and desperation I've seen generally throughout the community. I won't be dragged down with you, so I'll say good bye and leave you to it.

You seemed like a pretty cool guy, until I noticed how you wouldn't shut up about how you notice people on here typically depress you and are here feeling sad for themselves. What on earth did you expect coming to a hair loss forum?....people being excited that they are losing their hair?? I have the same mindset as you *almost*....I am looking at the positive side of things, and I am happy. I'm not depressed or feeling bad for myself and the people on here don't make me feel depressed either even though you are right about people here "wallowing in self-pity." I don't know how it does for you?? Maybe cause it reminds you of the state of mind you yourself was once in? You did try alot of products that did not help you with your hair loss. Now you really have no choice but to look up to a non-existing hair loss treatment as your answer....all I have to say about that is....just being optimistic about something you have no control over will not have any effect on it....lol. So telling people "Oh, come on, people....stop being sad and be happy....that way HM will come sooner!" is not the way to go about it.

-rp

 

[Durandel]

I appreciate what you're saying, but what's the alternative? Discourage excitement and positivism in case they get in the way of mutual misery? This place is full of wildly over-the-top whinging and topics like "do I have the right to breed?". How does that help the mental state of unhappy people who visit this forum looking for support and community?

The trouble is that misery loves company. I think some people on here have deeper emotional issues than just hair loss, and deliberately inflict their negative outlook onto others. No-one here is going to depress me because I won't really get involved in a community like this. However, I hate to think of many unhappy people being encouraged to feel desperate when they should be feeling brilliant. That's why I am loud in my criticism of the attitude here.

HM has long been seen as the answer to hair loss, and it's finally coming to fruition. Do you think all these trials are going to continue indefinitely? It's almost here. It's only early days in the Intercytex tests, but the most recent test the TRC product grew new hair in 5 out of 5 test subjects. That's already more than ANY existing treatment (excluding hair transplant) can claim. In spring next year we'll start to see more extensive test results.

If you're 20 years old and starting to lose your hair, now is the time to smile because unlike any generation before you, there is a very real chance that you'll never be significantly balding! Likewise, for all us older chaps losing our hair in our mid/late 30s, we have a very real chance of NOT ending up looking like our dad/granddad. For those people who are already severely bald there is a very real chance of HM regrowing it back (perhaps in conjunction with a hair transplant).

This should now be a place of cautious optimism, where everyone is upbeat about the future and starting to plan for it. Newcomers should feel that there's real hope, support & community here. Maybe there could be discussion about leveraging joint buying power for HM treatment, or a perhaps a humorous section to discuss the hairstyles we're all going to get when we're all sporting mighty shocks of hair.

Anyway it's up to you guys how you want to see things, and also how you want to be seen by others. I've made my case, and now I'll vanish.

 

[bubka]

I'm not ignoring it but it just sounds too good to be true and theres been no physical evidence, just trials phase 1... phase 2... phase3... ect that tells us nothing of what exactly is happening.
I'm just amazed by all the guys on here who are talking about it like its real. Just like they have been doing for the past 7 yrs. We'll see... :shakehead:

shut up s.a.f, its going to be available out next year, like those hover boards from the back to the future movie