The ONE thing you have ALL missed.

[lane005]

Listen to these scenarios:

1. I've been on Propecia for 6 months, hair getting worse
2. I've been non stop shedding on Propecia for months!
3. Propecia gave me acne
etc

Jesus Christ, and people are telling these victims to "RIDE IT OUT"..

You do realise.. your telling them to ride out HYPERANDROGENICITY!

If Propecia is making your hair worse (over a period of months), or you've been shedding for too long (I'm not talking the expected shortterm shed), or your getting oily skin or acne.. GET OFF IMMEDIATELY.

Looks like your a victim of HA, and your only bet is topical antiandrogens.. not topical 5ar inhibitors (theres a diff)

HA is alot more common than you think.

 

[kento]

Shedding at the start is sign that the medicine is working.
6 months i still to early to tell if is it works or not.
I hate propecia because gave me sides i will be lot of happy if i didn't got those sides
Propecia is for stoping hair loss not for supporting that process
We all know that the shedding sucks but it's part of the battle so we have to use to it

 

[zb00st]

Interesting opinion. I think you will have to experience much stronger sides like oily facial skin and increased libido so upregulation causes HA.

Question:
What exactly is reflex hyperandrogenicity and what causes it? Is it when the androgen receptors become more sensitive to DHT or is it an increase in overall testosterone that negatively impacts the follicles. Also, should a topical antiandrogen counter this effect?

Dr Proctor Answers:
Reflex hyperandrogenicity is caused by a combination of increased testosterone and increased tissue sensitivity to male sex hormones ( androgens ). The latter is cause at least partially by an increase in the numbers of androgen receptors. Whether the receptors also get more sensitive is not clear, but seems likely.

Reflex hyperandrogenicity is proportional to the strength of an antiandrogen. It limits the use of antiandrogens in (e.g.) treatment of prostate cancer and is why most such patients get castrated.

Because the action of Finasteride is mostly limited to tissues where type-2 5-AR is the important source of androgenic activity, it elicits less reflex hyperandrogenicity than other antiandrogens when used to treat hair loss or prostate enlargement. So this is usually not limiting in hair loss-treatment, at least in the short run. It may even help minimize side-effects such as libido decrease during the use iof finasteride for hair loss. Whether this is also true for Dutasteride ( which blocks both type-1 and type-2 5 Alphareductases ) is not clear yet. And yes, topical antiandrogens such as spironolactone, which do not elicit the increase in testosterone, are likely helpful.

Peter H Proctor, PhD, MD

I was wondering can reflex hyperandrogenicity take place without any sides from finasteride ?

 

[threats77]

yer an idiot like alot others here....do you think its some miracle drug? that will just work within a matter of months? be a girl and quit or ride it out..amazes me how people complain like crazy...yer taking drugs....and all drugs have side effects..some people get them and some dont..go cry to yer mama pansy :firing:

 

[CCS]

Acne sides are worth considering, but many people get acne sometimes anyway. Merk did a study with thousands of men in it, over 5 years. I think FDA reported all side effects people complained about, as well as theoretical side effects. If you that there is a huge FDA/drug company conspiracy going on and you don't trust prescription drugs, then get off finasteride if you have a very unusually large acne outbreak. But Merk does not report the side effects. The FDA does the testing, and Merk and all drug companies have to pay FDA the same amount regardless of outcome.

I have never had any side effects, even when taking high doses of dutasteride. I took 2 or 3 pills a day for several months. Nothing. Like taking a placebo pill. And i know my proscar I took before was real because I got it from my doctor. No side effects. My hair just has not fallen out, whereas my brother is now NW5 headed for NW6.

The Admin of this site thinks he had an estrogen over reaction and had to get off, but Merk predicted gyno as a side effect.

 

[zb00st]

CCS, was your brother taking finasteride earlyer ? For example when he was NW2 or 3 ? How he reacted to the finasteride ?

 

[CCS]

CCS, was your brother taking finasteride earlyer ? For example when he was NW2 or 3 ? How he reacted to the finasteride ?

He got on it at NW4, and continued to thin to NW5, then got off, and now he is close to NW5.5. No side effects, just did not help.

Propylene glycol made his head red, so he could not use minoxidil, and could not afford Lee's PG free. No point anyway if finasteride was not helping him.

 

[zb00st]

How can you explain this situation ? Taking finasteride and it does nothing. I mean finasteride is suposed to be effective and should at least halt or slow down hairloss.
Asking because I'm on it since more than 5 months and I don't see my hairloss stabilised. It is even worse than ever, a lot of hairs in the shower all over my hands, it wasn't like this before. Guess it's a badly shedding, all kind of hairs - thick and thin, short and small... It really makes me think wtf is going on, because when I started there was some thining in the front and now this thin spot has become bigger, my temples also were better. No sides at all, taking 1.25mg Proscar. So is this thing working at all ? I plan to get bloodwork done and check dht and free T levels.

 

[JDW]

First post on here in a long time but to the poster above, I have been on medication for around two years now and gone consistentally downhill. Tonight I have just returned from the pub and through running fingers through my hair have came away with 20 hairs in 4 hand movements...
depressing stufff...Not every shed is a good thing, more often than not in my experience n this boards it;s just male pattern baldness taking it;s hold....
sorry to be negative but everyone should be honest about their own individual case :thumbsdown:

 

[CCS]

who knows if it slowed my brother's down or not. I told him to stay on fincar and not get off it if he was not getting sides, but after 6 or 8 months of no success he just gave up I guess. It did not speed up his hairloss it seemed. I was not living with him, so I don't know if he was expecting a miracle, or just did not know it takes 6 months to really see a change in direction. But as much as he's lost, it is not like he'll regrow a whole lot on finasteride at this point. He can't use rogain. Maybe he should get back on just in case he is a phenominal responder to Lee's PG free later when he can afford it. Problem is I'd have to buy him the proscar since he won't do it himself.

 

[captain_que]

I´m sorry, a little OT here, but what is HA? I experience constant shedding in front when applying minoxidil. Could HA be what I´m experiencing?

 

[priore]

Going along the lines of this hyperandrogenicity theory could it be possible that using topical flutamide may result in the same thing. I have been using it a couple of months and have definately noticed increased acne?

 

[Balding_Blues]

I was a poor student when I first started on finasteride, so I went straight for the generic Fincar. Within the first few days I thought I noticed an increase in libido, but maybe this was simply that sitting in front of my computer all day offered far too frequent opportunities to look at p**rn. My skin became greasy and now I look back, I was definitely driving more aggressively. All this, I thought, pointed to an increase in testosterone. So I go online, read about reflex hyperandrogenicity, think 'oh crap' and ditch the Fincar.

After a while, my hairloss continued and minoxidil just wasn't cutting the mustard. I had given in, stopped all treatment and grown my hair longer.

A few months later, I read other posts about a temporary increase in free testosterone etc. etc. so I thought I would give it (finasteride) another try. Also, I could now afford Merck finasteride & Dr Lee's topicals.

All I can say now is that I have been on Merck finasteride & Dr Lee's minoxidil for 14months now. I have had 2 sheds that I can recall, both lasted roughly 2-3 months and then gradually faded away. Seriously, these were bad sheds - I lost several hundred hairs per day and my hair started to look like crap. I pulled out 4-5hairs whenever I ran my hands over my head and my comb was always full after use.

It is so difficult to go through and you start thinking "oh crap, what if that last batch of finasteride was no good" or "oh crap, what if it has stopped working" or "oh crap, maybe it's because I'm going to the gym more".

I have also had periods where I think my testosterone levels have increased and I get all the associated symptoms. These have sometimes coincided with a shed, sometimes not. I'm pretty sure this periodic fluctuation is normal throughout the year in everyone.

I am now at peace with my sheds, knowing they come and go.

My advice is:

STICK WITH IT!

Hyperandrogenicity is incredibly rare (or so the data implies) and you would only be losing hair that would be lost anyway....just slightly faster. Everyone who's had a shed has probably thought "oh crap, I'm the 1 in 1000 who has hyperandrogenicity".

The fact is, you stand a chance of maintaining your hair or re-growing with treatment.

Without treatment, you have no chance.