The hair transplant numbers game.............for newbies.

[michael barry]

Youve seen the pictures, now look at a bald head from a couple of different angles http://www.gopathways.org/assets/dr_phil_mcgraw.jpg

and http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/ ... tewart.jpg



See the lack of even good hippocratic wreath hair? See that lack of density even in the wreath. Meds like propecia will delay and slow baldness for a long time, but it still happens (Ive been on it over a decade). So if you were going to lose it all, you will LOSE IT ALL.


If you used to have 110,000 hairs (normal is 100-150,000 hairs, but men on average have larger heads than women do because they are larger people and 110 is a closer estimate to what they used to have on average), and you lose 60,000 hairs and go hippocratic bald (the men pictured above have lost more than that however and and probably only have 30,000 hairs in their hippocratic wreaths), you'd need 60,000 hairs to bring your hair back up to original density in the front.

No one expects original density with a hair transplant, but you would definietely need 30-40,000 to have any hope of having somewhat natural density. The average follicular unit would have between 2 and 3 hairs. So if it had 2.5 hairs a piece, youd need 20,000 FU's to get 50,000 hairs to cover your bald pate. Not many men have that much in their "donor areas"-----which thin in time even if their shape is geneticall predetermined.


Thats a lot of surgery and huge amounts of money. On hairsite, you see men having to resort to body hair. Hugely expensive even at its cheapest (stateside, five bucks a graft is the best you can do), and is not as good or big as head hair. Best idea Ive heard of are FUE surgeons that put body hairs in the FUE hole they create when they move the head donor hair up front.


If all cloning does is re-invigorate miniaturized head hairs with donor hair genetics through new stem cells, you'll be phucked if you got a dense transplant too. You will have destroyed those vellus hairs for good by cutting the scalp to pieces. That means you have to hope that cloning truly is follicular neo-genesis (making brand new hairs out of the old stem cells from the donor hairs) and not simply making the small hairs big with new genes. Its being debated right now how exactly the cloning thats worked on androgenic mice has worked. Testing continues and is about to start on human beings in England. We wont know the results for about another year and even then wont be able to say for certain if it was through making new hair or making old peach fuzz hairs big again.



So if your 25 and pissed about your hairline and "about to take the plunge", you might think really hard and know what youre getting into. The docs and salesman know that youre pissed off about going bald, and know how to manipulate those emotions to get you in the chair. A face lift costs much less than transplants, boob jobs cost much less than transplants......................and when you get transplants you will inevitably need more as the years pass and you receed further up top, on the sides, the back bald spot. All this even if you do have "high sides" and a big wide donor area. Think about it.

 

[leeds]

would it be fair to say that you are against an H\T for any reason and more in favor of waiting until the future brings us what we all crave? if that is your advise,i'll take it,better to suck it up now than become zipperhead down the road. thanks for all your time and effort

 

[michael barry]

leeds,\

I really think some men are great candidates for transplants. I also think that a guy should be about 35 before getting a transplant. But there are qualifiers for this. If you start receeding at 25 and get on something like propecia, nizoral two or three times a week, and minoxidil..............................youre "tricking" nature to an extent. The treatments we have seem to be able to delay baldness for a good while, but it slowly progresses usually. Dutasteride, topical spironolactone twice a day, nizoral two or three times a week, and minoxidil might see if progress extremely slowly...................perhaps taking two or three decades to see signifigant recession unless one has a strong tendency to bald. This same guy getting a transplant at thirty five may be sorry he did at fifty.

BUT,
If a guy starts to receed despite all that (and there are some who have, Ive talked to them), and go hippocratic bald with only forty thousand hairs up top....................they are kinda screwed man. With phase two supposedly starting soon................in my opinion its a good thing to wait at this point and see what hair multiplication can do. Perhaps it can give everyone a full head of donor-quaility hair again (I hope so).



I think the best transplant idea Ive run across is called the "donor exchange method". Its drawback is that its very pricey. Basically its an FUE transplant, but instead of just allowing the FUE holes in the back to heal, the Doctor puts body hair in them................buffing up the back somewhat. Ive seen many transplants in person and most guys that get two or three thousand have strangely thin hair in the back of their heads in person. You notice it when you see them.

The best candidates by the way (in my opinion) are over thirty five, have been taking no drugs or topicals, really think that NW3-4 is their final state of baldness, and have "high sides". Look up a picture of racing announcer Darrell Waltrip for an example of this. He'd have alot of donor hair due to his head shape. Expectations in transplantation, due to the best results being advertised, gets alot of men to think that they have a cornucopia of hair in the back even if they dont and a false sense of security that the wreath wont ever thin. On NW6 and 7 men, it usually does. Leaving them with a comb-over look transplant. Those suck.

 

[htownballa]

The donor exchange method...do the body hairs become normal donor hairs? If so that would be similar to HM in impact...

 

[michael barry]

They usually lengthen their growth phases to match that of head hair, but most body hair is not as large circumferentially as head hair, so it does not look as good. There have been a couple of "wow" results with BHT's over at hairsite, but most are thinnish and very expensive. Unfortunately until we can "make" more real head hair................thats about as far as surgery can go in my opinion. The Body hair in the back wouldn't look as good as head hair, but at least it would be something and not just denuding the back.

A Doctor named Cole performed the most impressive BHT Ive ever seen of a real hairline with it. One Doctor named Umar did another with a guy named Heliboy who was just a mess, and pretty much gave him a fair head of hair considering he was bald behind a line of old transplants. He spent over seventy thousand bucks though. Surgery is a huge step..........Id encourage anyone to research hard and really look at their donor hair situaltion before even really considering it seriously and to be over thirty five.

 

[CCS]

I think it really just depends on genetics. but if someone has serious baldness at age 25, and has family members that are NW6, there is a decent chance that drugs won't stop them from balding. But if they have money and can buy RU58841 and some good fatty acids, in conjunction with finasteride or dutasteride, then I think they can keep their hair.

 

[jj_24]

"RU58841 and some good fatty acids" Just wondering what you are reffering to here

 

[CCS]

gamma linolenic acid, alpha linolenic acid, linoleic acid, oleic acid, and one of the longer omega 3's, inhibit the androgen process topically. but just the free fatty acids, not the oils, which are the fatty acids bonded to glycerol.

RU58841 is a very powerful androgen receptor blocker that can be bought from a company in china.

all this info is in the forums on this site.

 

[jj_24]

Ok good thanks for the info. Are you using these if so are you happy with them?

 

[Guest]

college would someone like me who knows very little a bout chemical mixes be able to make his own RU cream without much trouble?

how much would a year's supply of ru cost including the other ingredients needed to make the mix?

i was reaing threads on ru58841 on hairsite and a lot ofpeople over there complained about RU freshness issues and said that some batches they received didn't work as well as others.

thanks.

 

[CCS]

you have to keep it could and dry, and not close it again after opening it.

you need two air tight bottles, one inside the other, and some descicator sand. Then store the powder in that in the freezer. You have to make up 2 grams at a time. I suggest 35% ethanol, 35% PPG, 30% oleic acid. Make the 2g last more than a month, actually 6/5 of a month. You need once a day applications, probably of 1-2mL, so you can figure out what the concentration is that you get from that, since you prepare the liquid.

Yes, you can make it yourself. it might only last for 6 month for some people, but if you do it like I said you might make it last a year. So if you get 20g for $600 plus $90 for shipping, and $40 for a quart of ethanol, plus shipping, and $30 for PPG, and $25 for oleic acid, the liquids will last you several years, and the RU will last you the year. you might be able to make it last more than a year, but use at least 2% just to be safe.

I don't know how much the descicator sand is.

Goingat20 and I are going to split a batch. The three of us could split the liquids and two 10g batches to save on shipping and the initial liquid investment. My brother will send me the oleic acid soon, and I already have the PPG.

If any water vapor or frost gets in the RU, it will react and make it clump together and change colors and be worthless. Most people who have freshness problems open the 2g containers and take out a little and try to freeze it again.

 

[Guest]

wow that's super expensive. i'm going to hold off on it for now i think bceause i will probably try spironolactone before it since my hair loss isn't gigantic yet.

 

[michael barry]

http://www.angelfire.com/trek/hairtransplant/new.html

 

[CCS]

The majority of the web page has outdated techniques that you can still get today if you don't do your research. The last part of the web page, on single strip scars, is very accurate. Those are indeed the averages, from my own personal experience. The thin one was definitely much thinner than average, though not as thin as the scar in my second procedure. I hope my fourth will be as successful as my second, or more importantly my 5th.

When HM comes out in 10 years or so, I'm get my donor scar filled in and will take my front from 60 up to 100 f/u per cm2.

In my opinion, going from NW3 to NW0 is worth an average scar, and definitely worth a thin scar. I highly doubt that any are pencil thin. 1mm is the best you can hope for, and 2mm is a more realistic result from a very good surgeon if you don't form keloids. But most people will have a 4mm scar, and a few will have a 10mm scar.

If you are a NW1.5, the scar might not be worth it, but the smaller donor area means a lower likely hood of a large scar as well.

the pictures looked grotesque. but when I feel back there and my head feels completely normal, I don't think it is a huge deal. Just got to wait 3 months for it to be 90% healed, and 6 months for it to be 100% healed. And the first 3 weeks are no fun, though are kind of OK. Not painful. Just gets annoying after having mild discomfort day in day out.