The Group-Buy to end 'em all: TDM-105795

edh38

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TDM-105795 is a topical Thyroid-Receptor beta-1 agonist currently in clinical trial for hair growth. It is developed by Technoderma, a Chinese company founded by ex-Pfizer employees.
Previous research on such a substance has been, among others, conducted by Pfizer and Ralf Paus' Monasterium Lab
On mice, stump-tailed macaques and human hair follicles showing very promising efficacy and no side-effects or systemic exposure.

It has already cleared the initial human safety trial 1a and the subsequent 1b is currently ongoing in the US.

Its mechanism of action is likely via activation of both WNT and SHH pathways as a consequence of the local Thyroid-b1 agonism. Both are fundamental in themselves for hair growth - but maybe even moreso is their interplay. In mice, SHH activation increased by about 200x (yes, 200 times) and WNT 4x, see following figure.

(left diagram representative for SHH activation, the two right ones for WNT)
tdm_mice_clip-1.jpg


In human hair follicles such a drug more than doubled the number of anagen (growing, active) hair follicles, see following figure.
eprotirome-1.jpg


We also reached out to both parties that conducted the previous research on why it has stopped. Pfizer sold and quit all dermatherapeutic efforts in the wake of the '08 financial crisis and Paus` Monasterium Lab regrettably did not manage to further agree with the substance IP holder - quote from him
"This definitely SHOULD have been pursued [...] and the whole intriguing project got buried due to lack of funding.".

Dosage:
Trial is using 0.01-0.02%. You could use more and you might need 2-6ml depending on usage needs

DM me if you want to participate in the group buy.

Link to previous discussion regarding TDM:
 
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pegasus2

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Has anyone found any data for the macaque study? It would be great to know how much hair they regrew.
 

Nebula74

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do they actually have animal models for this drug or just the similar one that pfizer tested
 

pegasus2

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With the failure of all other group buys besides pyrilutamide... Why not wait for confirmation from phase 2 studies?
Because life is short, and considering this moa works in stumptailed macaques it most likely works in humans to some degree, so no matter what it's not a total waste.
 

pegasus2

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do they actually have animal models for this drug or just the similar one that pfizer tested
Same MOA that pfizer tested. AFAIK they only did mouse preclinicals with this one. This is supposed to be better than the pfizer drug so I don't see that as an issue.
 

5minutesbeforemiracle

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In 2009, Pfizer tested a similiar drug on mice...and stump-tailed macaques - with success, it grows hair. [Link]
Key-word here is "similar"! We don't know if the current drug would work the same on the macaques.
And even better yet:
Recent research (April) from Yale highlighted the necessity of simultaneous activation of two distinct pathways, c. Wnt and Shh for Hair growth promotion. [Link]
Most (failed) drugs - from KY, Valproic-Acid, Samumed to Dkk1-inhibitors are acting pretty much solely on one pathway, Wnt.

This February however, the TDM people published their research which shows that TDM evidently activates both pathways drastically. [Link]
Targeting SHH-pathway is pretty dangerous due to its relation to cancer.
 

edh38

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Key-word here is "similar"! We don't know if the current drug would work the same on the macaques.

Targeting SHH-pathway is pretty dangerous due to its relation to cancer.
Yup, we don't. It's called scientific conclusion.
And yeah Shh is very dangerous, which makes the initial safety pass just more impressive.
 

5minutesbeforemiracle

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And yeah Shh is very dangerous, which makes the initial safety pass just more impressive.
Not really. As per the link you put in OP, Phase 1a was a single-dose study. If SHH-pathway will f*** someone up with cancer, it's not going to be evident in 1 dose. The risk will come from repeat doses, which is what you're all looking to do. Well, the scientists behind it know more than I do and they think it's safe enough to try. Either way, I wish all you guys luck since this might be quite risky IMO.
 

edh38

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Not really. As per the link you put in OP, Phase 1a was a single-dose study. If SHH-pathway will f*** someone up with cancer, it's not going to be evident in 1 dose. The risk will come from repeat doses, which is what you're all looking to do. Well, the scientists behind it know more than I do and they think it's safe enough to try. Either way, I wish all you guys luck since this might be quite risky IMO.
I understand, but at the same time - do you realize that Minoxidil upregulates Shh (this, again should have been more than clear if you would have read the Yale paper e.g.)? It's not just about 'how much', but also about 'how'. Seems like you are making a case of direct hyperactivation of Shh out of thin air.

Nevertheless, I don't think further discussion about that will enlighten anyone.
 

pegasus2

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Not really. As per the link you put in OP, Phase 1a was a single-dose study. If SHH-pathway will f*** someone up with cancer, it's not going to be evident in 1 dose. The risk will come from repeat doses, which is what you're all looking to do. Well, the scientists behind it know more than I do and they think it's safe enough to try. Either way, I wish all you guys luck since this might be quite risky IMO.
Constitutively activating Shh with a smoothened agonist is very dangerous. This indirectly upregulates it through other pathways, meaning it should not be able to override anti-tumorigenic negative feedback pathways. There are at least 4 glucocorticoids that upregulate Shh to a greater degree than this drug, and they have been used for decades with a good safety profile.
 

pegasus2

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I'm sure this works and I think I'll order some myself, but minoxidil works for a lot less money. If this was the cure we'd know already with all the people on thyroid injections. Maybe diffuse thinners will get better results than receders. Hypothyroidism doesn't seem to cause any recession. I see little to no reason to believe this pathway is implicated in the pathogenesis of Androgenetic Alopecia. However, I'm fairly confident it will increase the A:T ratio and make your hair appear thicker for a time.
 

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edh38

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For anyone wondering about this thread and the other one with a similar name: look at the creation date, this was first and Pegasus just stole the name..

The GB is currently ongoing, if you would like to join, DM me.
 

Sanchez1234

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For anyone wondering about this thread and the other one with a similar name: look at the creation date, this was first and Pegasus just stole the name..

The GB is currently ongoing, if you would like to join, DM me.
Your groupbuy is different than Pegasus?
 
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