Testosterone - a DHT antagonist?

[Hoppi]

So when my body doesn't have enough T, it goes "oooo crap!" and makes lots of DHT probably by upregulating 5ar conversion of testosterone...

Your body maintains a tight control over testosterone, not DHT, sending the chemical signals to the testes which control its synthesis. So when your body thinks it doesn't have enough testosterone, it releases more LH and FSH (luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone), to increase its production. I'm unaware of any sort of feedback mechanism that the body has that would increase the amount of DHT as a response to low testosterone, and I view the results of that study with some suspicion. I hope to get a better idea of what was going on with that, once I get a chance to read the whole thing.

By the way, you might be interested to know that there was a study a while back by some top-notch hairloss researchers (Happle & Hoffmann) that found something exactly OPPOSITE to what's being implied by the study you quoted: giving additional testosterone to human scalp hair follicles in vitro caused those follicles to synthesize a lot more 5a-reductase type II mRNA, which would obviously generate even _more_ DHT, not less!

of course that would happen in vitro! lol

It's not the TESTOSTERONE that's doing the follicles good, it's what the healthy testosterone levels mean for the entire male body!

I hope it's true so much! Everything backs it up! ^_^

 

[Bryan]

of course that would happen in vitro! lol

I don't understand what you seem to be implying, or hinting at. Do you know of any scientific evidence that what I said happens in vitro, but NOT in vivo?

It's not the TESTOSTERONE that's doing the follicles good, it's what the healthy testosterone levels mean for the entire male body!

I hope it's true so much! Everything backs it up! ^_^

Testosterone definitely does the male body good, and in various ways; for example, it stimulates libido, helps generate and maintain muscle, and fights depression and improves the general feeling of well-being in men. But we're not generally talking about those things on this site, except very indirectly; this site is called "HairlossTalk" for a reason: we're discussing ways to maintain and grow our HAIR! :smack:

Testosterone may be good for our muscles and our mood and our hard-ons, but it's NOT good for our hair!! :sobbing: You need to stop trying to twist things around (much like misterE tried to do) to make everybody think that it's that poor, misunderstood little hormone that is actually good for us in every conceivable way, including keeping our scalp hair! :laugh:

 

[wesleyBelgium]

i agree with this....

not taking fina and boosting your testolevels higher or making it more normal will result in more hairloss... its for a reason that hairloss starts when you hit puberty , just when your testolevels boost....
living more healty will result in 16% more testo , this will result in more hairloss , there many vegetarians that live verry healty and are : BALD ....
there no way of living to halt genetics
or you take meds that slow down the proces or you accept getting BALD...
for 100 years or more they seek for hairlosssolutions , taking all kinds of herbals , healty foods , nothing has helped , sinds it cant halt genetics
block dht , or block / attack the androgen receptors , all the other theories are just an illusion... such theories will just get people more bald , please people use your mind , its your hair.... when you lose it all , its gone forrever.... so use meds , there NO OTHER WAY....
i hope i shake most of the readers here awake , time is not on our side of the male pattern baldness victims , get on fina and quick.... if i could turn back time i would go into the past and give myself a few years finasteride supply instead of trying all kind of herbals , it would have safed me from multiple hairtransplants and many many years of worry's about that damn hair.... and just living my life....
with many people that have hairloss , it dominates there social life also , if you on time when its not to advanced hairloss then you can have super results... dont waith 2 long .... i can predict the future of the people that would try herbals first : they lose hair , and when they use meds there hair is allready for 50 - 60 % gone .... the best results are when you start as fast as possible , or you will also need hairtransplants....

 

[Hoppi]

lol yes, no other way

I'll tell that to all the people I know who have solved it in other ways

hehe

 

[hairrific]

LOL tehe, My god, let me guess hoppie you have a computer job, yes? hee hee

 

[wesleyBelgium]

if it aint from lack of vitamins / minerals or temporal hairloss of high stress , then its genetics , and genetic you cant alter by just living different , your hairloss still wil progress...

you seek many studies that use herbal stuff , by a way you seek the holy grail of hairloss , something that only exist for the persons that want to believe

if you have male pattern baldness from genetics then you will go on finasteride....
let see how it will go for you in a few years
i dont believe in herbals, they can give a bit boost to a regime, but will never stop het hairloss alone... you will still needs meds, and when you do the final results will be from the meds , not the herbals

even if you balans your hormones , the androgen receptors will still be there on your hairfollikels.... and on top of most males that have male pattern baldness have 2x androgen receptors on top.... there are studies done for that....
so there will be still dht going to the double androgen receptors......

 

[Hoppi]

Wesley, the thing is you have to understand the situation up there is really very complex. On top of that, the situation in your body as a whole is complex. I have been researching all this for months because I really love my hair, and thought it was so unfortunate that so many guys had to lose their hair, I thought it was a really unfair thing and wanted to stop it dead in it's tracks!

And yes, yes it is true that DHT is enemy number 1.. in a sense. A yes it is true that testosterone in particularly large amounts can be problematic.

But as long as your levels of DHT are not ELEVATED by anything (which I believe is possible in many, but not mandatory), then I agree with CS in saying that a brilliant solution is to not cut drastically into DHT (which has negative effects for the male body and I don't believe is the healthiest decision for something), but to ensure, to refer to my signature, that there is no "ammo in the handgun".

That is why women can do all these things that create ammo, and still not lose hair, because they have no "trigger" - DHT.

So how do you remove the ammo?

It increases antioxidant activity to mop up the free radicals that DHT activates. It enhances testosterone levels to healthy levels, lowers the "bad" estrogen, lowers inflammation, and inhibits many other destructive links in the chain to hair loss.

By cleansing my scalp, giving my follicles room to breathe and shrinking their sebaceous glands, I believe I will dramatically reduce the amount of DHT they are exposed to and the difficulty they have in growing.

You want more evidence? Copper peptides and products like Proxiphen increase Superoxide Dismutase. SOD is an ANTIOXIDANT. It mops up the very same free radicals that we are trying to do systemically.

I am on the IH regimen, and trying to reduce the ammunition, not remove the trigger, that is behind my hair loss

 

[Hoppi]

the thing is you have to understand the situation up there is really very complex. On top of that, the situation in your body as a whole is complex. I have been researching all this for months because I really love my hair,

And you are the last who can understand what is going on... Some people here more qualified than you in the art of biology have been researching this for years if not decades and are back to finasteride. See my signature : they are your words. Dont you feel ashamed by your ignorance ? Stop giving people advice. You grab some papers from internet and draw conclusions. This is aberrant.

I'm not stopping you from using your treatments, it's up to the individual.

 

[timbo]

See my signature : they are your words. Dont you feel ashamed by your ignorance ? Stop giving people advice. You grab some papers from internet and draw conclusions. This is aberrant.

That is hilarious! It makes me want to scour the forums for stupid things that Hoppi has said and put them in my signature!

...I definitely won't have to look very hard!

 

[Hoppi]

lol I have no problem with having an alternative view to people, it really is no big deal to me