Temples/vertex maintenance (PICS) - advice please (updated)

[maroon]

First of all - I realise I'm not at a stage where people can really notice any hairloss and I'd be very happy if I could keep what I have until I'm 30. I'm posting here because you guys have a lot of knowledge - and can probably assess my situation just as good as any derm. I posted here a couple of months ago - but never really took any action appart from hitting the 1% nizoral. It's a nice shampoo and I will carry on using it 2/3 times a week.

The hairdresser uses a thinning scissor type thing so I can style the thick areas of my hair easier with the messy look. But the fact is - my hair is thinner than it USED to be. I still have thick hair - but not for long if this continues. This is what I want to stop.

I'm 21 (soon) - and I have had a very slow hairloss progression since i rounded 18/19. Mostly around the temple areas (?) but also noticable in the vertex now ( ? ) - although only under a powerful lightsource like in the pics (this actually gave me a nasty surprise - i ONLY thought i was losing hair in the temples). You can't really notice it unless i part the hair in a powerful lightsource like here. My tiny blonde hairs in the temple region are literally destroyed under the light - so it looks worse in these pics.

Anyway, check out the pics that I took today (sorry for crap quality - its the best my mobile phone can do). They were all taken under a strong bathroom light - no flash. I tried to make it look as "bad as possible".

I've been using Nizoral 1% shampoo the last 4 months - nothing else.

Crown/Top:

Vertex:

Vertex:

Left Temple:

Right Temple:

Front - pulled back:

Time to hit the propecia for maintenance? What do you say?

I've spent the summer getting fit - and I'll be starting to take decent vitamins now. However I realise this isnt going to stop the DHT issues. If it makes any difference I think I have quite a lot of testosterone - deep voice, hairy legs/chest and quite strong facial hair.

What do you think? (I have some kirkland minoxidil stacked away - but not touched it yet).

 

[Guest]

If you actually want it as "bad as possible" you should have wet hair and take pics with flash but take care since the results might be somehow shocking.

click on the link in my signature, the first pic in my story looks pretty much as your first pic. Your hair might be a little bit longer thought. For being honest I think both of us have waisted a lot of time.

Nevertheless, go for propecia. this is your way at the moment. Add Nizoral shampoo twice a week. Most important: do not stress about hair loss, best is not to come here for some time(unlike me....). I wouldn´t touch minoxidil if you only want to maintain. You might freak out if you get a heavy shed since you still have a lot lose. You might add some further dietary supplements, do some reading in the section of HairLossTalk.com. Well, that´s it, I think. All you need now: Good Luck!

P.S.: Ok, I see you are already using nizoral. You have obviously done your homework. My fault!

 

[maroon]

If you actually want it as "bad as possible" you should have wet hair and take pics with flash but take care since the results might be somehow shocking.

click on the link in my signature, the first pic in my story looks pretty much as your first pic. Your hair might be a little bit longer thought. For being honest I think both of us have waisted a lot of time.

Nevertheless, go for propecia. this is your way at the moment. Add Nizoral shampoo twice a week. Most important: do not stress about hair loss, best is not to come here for some time(unlike me....). I wouldn´t touch minoxidil if you only want to maintain. You might freak out if you get a heavy shed since you still have a lot lose. You might add some further dietary supplements, do some reading in the section of HairLossTalk.com. Well, that´s it, I think. All you need now: Good Luck!

P.S.: Ok, I see you are already using nizoral. You have obviously done your homework. My fault!

Thanks for your reply.

I had a shower earlier and i looked at my hair in the mirror wet with strong light. It doesnt look great - but the hairdresser DID thin a fair chunk of my hair out - not the vertex however. The vertex thinning is worrying me now.

I know I shouldnt think about it etc - but its HARD, especially after seeing my vertex under strong light.

- It's definately male pattern baldness right?
- How can I know if it will stop here or continue?


I gather I should get on propecia ASAP - but both the cost and taking a drug which modifies my testosterone/DHT scares me. I'm not sure what I'm the most worried about - losing the hair or going on a daily drug like propecia.

 

[Guest]

Hello again,

i know what you were feeling seeing your wet hair under light. In my bathroom there is a halogen lamp and after showering and looking in the mirror. :x Both of us have to keep in mind: People usually won´t see us like this. Girls would never consider us to be balding, though I personally won´t go swimming on a bright sunny day within the next time......

We have to go on with our lives, we can still have a normal life. Taking finasteride is as much as we can do at the moment. Eating healthy, getting fit might be helpful, but basically it depends on our finasteride. Keep in mind, the future might bring some new drugs, also Hair Multiplication is on the way and if your hair loss gets worse you still have minoxidil or dutasteride left to fight it.

Yes, your hair loss is definetly MBP, the "horsehoe" seen on the first pic, thinning at the vertex and temple recession.... This is MBP. Though it might be possible that you also suffer from other hair loss caused by thyroid problems or stress. You might get this checked at a derm, but usually this ain´t the case.

how your hairloss continues is like saying how the weather will be in one year. Nobody knows it. When it hits you young, it usually is rather agressive. But keep in mind, that there might be new treatmens in the future. Both of us have good chances that baldness for us is a choice and not our destiny. You might take a look at your relatives though to judge how your hair loss might develop. Maybe you will develop a similiar hair loss as your father or your maternal grandfather, but you definetly shouldn´t trust on it.

 

[maroon]

Thanks man.

Yes, I guess we should consider ourselves lucky (compared to many). But then again I'm not even 21 yet.

Horseshoe in first pic?

How do you mean?

Looking closer at the first pic you may be mistaking my blond hair reflecting the light for scalp. ?

This may clarify:

As you can see - I'm a computer graphics and design major. lol

Edit: The scalp is not visible from top on pic - the hair is just blonde. You can see my scalp on the vertex shots tho (argh!!).

 

[Guest]

Sorry, for the confusion. You are diffuse thinner, which means you are losing hair mostly from top of your head. This is tricky, since many people, including myself, don´t notice that they are suffering from real hair loss since you always read about how recession/hair loss starts at the temples. At least that´s what I thought which is what made me deny my hair loss for such a long time. But if we catch it an early stage there is good chance for us to live a normal life without being confronted by balding comments since most people don´t notice it either. And it seems rather easy to treat. Growing your hair line back is much more difficult, but thickening is often achieved with finasteride and nizoral alone.

About the horeshoe thing, you have to turn it around. The "horsehoe" usually shows the thinning areas of your head. Look at this guy´s avater: http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=23090

His thinning areas have the shape of a horsehoe and reveal his future baldness. I didn´t know what was the horsehoe, before I saw this picture. Afterwards I could also spot it in my pic .

I hope I didn´t scare you or something, but I am really pissed off by my hair loss as well. Hence I am not good at telling people that everything is great, but for being honest our future doesn´t look that bad. Maintenance should be achieved for you at least until you are 30, when you take a look around nearly everyone who is treating his hair loss has achieved an improvement, even though not every one is posting in Sucess Stories. Hardly anyone has deteriorated. Balding nowadays is nothing that can´t be avoided. Keep that in mind, try to focus on other things and balding won´t really affect you!

 

[CCS]

if finasteride does not stop your hair loss, dutasteride will probably just maintain it. i would get on dutasteride down, and regrow some to kind of turn back the clock a bit, and maybe do the finasteride later.

minoxidil does not stop balding. it just gives you more hair, which continues to thin, unless you are on internal meds.

I think you should put some SODs in your vertex, like folligen or tricomin, though folligen is cheapest. Just do that until it regrows, then you can back off to finasteride later and have the effect of having started finasteride a few years earlier.

 

[Guest]

CCS, do you think it is possible to regrow hair by folligen, stop it and then maintain your regrowth with finasteride? You know of anyone who has achieved that? I don´t think minoxidil is a wise choice for him at the moment. He just wants to maintain, by adding minoxidil he will have a shedding first before seeing regrowth. That can be very frustrating. Plus he also needs to take minoxidil as long as he wants to maintain his regrown hair. Last but not least, he might see some regrowth by finasteride + nizoral alone.

 

[maroon]

Argh.

If I look at my family tree - hair loss is mostly at the temples. I.e. my dad still has all his vertex hair, but his front/temples are getting damn thin now, crown/top suffering as well. Hes also thin up on the crow area abut his vertex is still intact.

I'm just a bit frustrated right now - cos it appears i have the normal temple receding as WELL as diffuse thinning ( ? ).

My temples arent bad as when you take a picture from above - you can't see any of my scalp. But they have definately changed more into a U/V shape the last years (you can see from the front if I pull my hair backwards). I just hope this does not progress much further - I don't mind having a mature hairline, but I'd like it to stop there.

I'll have to see my GP when i get back from holiday and see if he can prescribe propecia - maybe I can get it for free somehow if they have a system for that. I doubt I'll be able to afford it - so I may not be able to do anything about it.

Thanks for the honest feedback, and no - you didn't scare me. The pictures of my vertex scared me however.

I feel frustrated and a bit upset. But I've been quite lucky with genes and stuff in general - I guess there had to be something.

$hiT!!!!!

Thanks again for your advice and I'd appreciate it if more provided their input as well.

 

[maroon]

Also - any idea how I can forget about this? As I can't do anything right now anyway.

Since I posted here yesterday I've been checking my hair every damn time i go to the bathroom.

A week of this and I'll go mental :hairy: :freaked2:

 

[CCS]

I agree he should not be on minoxidil, and i believe (but dont know) he can maintain hair regrown with SODs after stopping them just by using finasteride.

The best way to forget about this is to make a plan and write it down on a caledar. Then just stop looking in the mirror, go on with your life, and know you will see your GP and fix this later.

The strongest SOD is prox-N at http://www.drproctor.com. It will arrive in much less than a week. The other good ones are tricomin and folligen and AC spray. I think a topical anti-androgen for the vertex would be good for a year. You only need one bottle of folligen.

 

[CCS]

you can just maintain your hair but why not regrow it? I agree minoxidil is not for you, but there are other topicals that are not as transient.

 

[maroon]

Of course I wouldnt mind regrowing - but it's a matter of cost.

I assume growing will cost more than maintaining - as 2 drugs cost more than just 1.

It's a bit scary - as the thin area doesnt really "feel" thinner. If I had not done this photo stuff (mostly for temples) - I would probably not have noticed until somebody pointed it out.

Are these SOD's scientifically approved? Also what kind of cost am I looking at here? (GBP if possible).

 

[CCS]

The copper peptides in tricomin proved regrowth in a phaseII FDA trial. SODs have a lot of backing in lab animals and from other uses, but have not been tested in FDA trials, except for the tricomin.

One bottle of folligen is $29.90 plus shipping and will last you 9 months.
tricomin is $48 as will last you about 2-4 months.
These estimates are based on 3mL once a day, and the 2 month tricomin based on twice a day, and the folligen diluted 50%. You can use less than 3mL.

60 mL of prox-N costs $60 and will last you 3 months. You can get a diluted version at lef.org for half the price if you get 4. It is much stronger than folligen and tricomin, supposedly. At the vary least it includes all tricomin active ingredients and more.


The other cheap thing is to make your own spironolactone cheam. Buy spironolactone at http://www.inhousepharmacy.com. Probably get 100 100mg tablets for $46. Buy a pint of propylene glycol online at a chemical site for $10. Dissolve a 8 100mg tablet in 12 mL of PPG, making a well ground up slury. Grinding and mixing it good is important. Mix this into 1.3 ounce of Dermavan in a separate container. You can have a pharmacy order 16oz for $30 including shipping. You now have a 5% spironolactone cream that costs $30/16 + $46/12.5 + $10/60 = $6 per month.
The dermavan will run out in a year, the spironolactone in a year, and the PPG will last longer than you need it.
If you want to spend less up front, a 2.5% spironolactone cream may be just as good. Just buy half as much spironolactone for almost half the price, but get the 100mg tablets.

Rub a thin layer of cream into your temples and hair line and behind them if you can, and on your crown at night, and use as much as you can get away with cosmetically in the morning.

spironolactone stinks when mixed with rogaine. I don't know if it stinks by itself. Ask some people on here before you spend this money.

 

[maroon]

Thanks alot for all the info Helps indeed.

I'll look into this and decide upon a regimen that I will start when I get back. At the moment I've decided on:

- Propecia
- Nizoral 1%

I'm currently seeing this girl tho, so topicals may be tricky ( ? ). To be honest I've laid off the minoxidil mostly cos
1. I thought this may just fix itself as soon as my exams are over (stress)
2. The sides... Shedding... Face blowing out of proportion... Spots..

If I'm to see anything positive in the situation - it is that I'm around 6'3 - so people would have to knock me on my *** and stare at my vertex to spot it.


The ironic thing is that last time I went to the haidresser (a proper place) - the hairdresser kept saying "wow - you have SOME hair" - indicating it was healthy and thick. He also thinned parts of it out.

Could it be this vertex thinning is of the very agressive type and has happened the past 3 weeks? Or was he just being polite? Whats going on?

Edit: I'm seriously concerned if its a highly aggressive loss at the vertex. Surely the hairdresser would have said something. I was there about 3/4 weeks ago

 

[maroon]

Bah. This is depressing

Been looking up on propecia/finasteride and DHT - I'm worried about taking a drug like this at such a low age. I'm 20.
My body might need this DHT - physically I feel top shape - except the thinning hair. I'm also entering an extremely important year acemedically, any kind of brain fog or heavy depression (from sides) would be disasterous.

Has anyone here had children whilst on finasteride?
I'm thinking far ahead here. Not having any sides after 6 months isnt the only important thing.
The FACT is that this drug changes your body - and I feel they still arent "sure" about the long-term effects of propecia.

Propecia could do more harm than good? I should talk to my doctor and see what he says. But if he knows v. little about this - I'm no better off.

Can tests be taken to check DHT levels? To compare it up with the "normal" ?

 

[Guest]

I don´t know your hairdresser. Maybe he was refering to the blond colour or something. I doubt you have an agressive type. You said yourself you were thinning since about 17/18. i think you are going crazy at the moment. RELAX! There is hope. You shouldn´t be concerned about this "evil" finasteride side effects. Give it a try. If you are in top shape now you might do some extra workout. this is no joke: I am also in top shape, I have a good stammina, but I have always had some man boobs since puberty. Maybe it was just in my mind, since I had a really low bf%, but I was afraid they would grow when using finasteride. So I was doing pushups like crazy. Guess what? Within two weeks I had developed some fine muscles on my chest feels great. Maybe you don´t eat junk food anymore, but take finasteride instead. Think about whether there is some other thing you might change in your life when you start taking finasteride. If you aren´t willing to sacrify a little bit, then you are obviously not suffering enough and deserve to go bald :wink: .

About this "brain fog"...... :roll: Yeah, I know that, I am in the same situation. Wanna know why? Because I am f*****g losing hair. This makes me crazy. I can´t think of anything else. I am depressive. I am hopeless. I want to kill myself. This is NOT caused by finasteride, finasteride is my only hope because it can stop my hairloss. If finasteride manages to stop my hair loss I will be the happiest man alive. Think about it. Do you think you can concentrate when you know you are going bald? NO! finasteride isn´t the cause of your hair problem, it is the solution of your hair problem. And about this children thing..... Well, didn´t you say you want to maintain your hair only until you are 30? If you want children you can stop taking it or change your regimen. Whatever, this is not your problem at the moment.

I think you are totally freaking out (I know this!), tell that girl you are seeing to give you a slape in the face so that you will wake up and come back to reality. You are lucky, I don´t see any girls, I only see my hairline in the mirror. For hours. It has become my obsession. I really need someone to give me a deep kick in my ***, so that I come back to the real world. Wake up, dude!

 

[CCS]

wow. When I first read this thread, I saw two guys with almost all their hair giving each other advice and thinking a bald guy like me is offering them too many topicals. One of you even said, "I was handed all the good genes, so I guess I had to get something bad." That made me jelous, since I have a lot of bad genes besides hair loss. Now just on the next page you guys are talking about depression and stress and suicide. And one of you is 6'3". What caused this change?

 

[still_trying]

maroon don't listen to these people !!!

there really is no need to get on propecia yet! it's a serious drug that gets none of the respect (in terms of effects on hormones) that it really deserves on this forum... because we're all used to taking it people forget that it serious;y messes with nature...

you're in a good position hair-wise, the loss is negligible, hardly noticeable...i think the positives you'd get from a DHT inhibitor like Propecia or avodart are too minimal to be worth the risk!

 

[CCS]

if you think your penis is too small and you want to wait a year or two and see if it gets bigger since you are still young, then use topical revivogen vials and nizoral and tricomin and spironolactone cream. But watch your hair carefully for more loss, and it sounds like that will stress you out when you really should not be looking at it. if on propecia, you would not have to watch it as much.