Study: Laminaria japonica and Cistanche tubulosa

[logikmtr]

Now I understand why most of Japanese and Chinese men don't suffer from baldness.

Heh, I know where you're coming from on this, but it's not actually true. Check this out http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12269873

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Also, the test subjects were given 150 mg CT for 16 weeks and saw an average of 20 extra hairs per square centimeter. The dosage of the Swanson brand CT linked in this thread is 400 mg per capsule. If the dosage and response is anything like finasteride, the extra 250 mg won't do anything. If it's not though, and more actually is better, the increase in follicle count may be improved.

It might also improve cholesterol as well as the body's ability to regulate cancer cells in various forms of rodentia, so there's that.

 

[I.D WALKER]

In regard to maybe the general misperception that Asians are afflicted with dramatically lower incidence of Androgenetic Alopecia than other races, the study you cited may have useful (statistical) value. However in my interpretation of it's conclusion, I expect many will be troubled by accepting the long running theory or implication that Androgenetic Alopecia and or premature male pattern baldness is caused by Western diet consumption. It may be worth revisiting this
discussion in a separate context, but again as for it's answer to Androgenetic Alopecia I think for today that is wrong. Thanx for sharing.

 

[logikmtr]

I expect many will be troubled by accepting the long running theory or implication that Androgenetic Alopecia and or premature male pattern baldness is caused by Western diet consumption.

I agree with you there. I certainly don't buy the "western diet" argument either (I live in America, and I eat pho all the time, dammit!), but in the conclusion, the author says the causes are unknown. They are only hypothesizing possible reasons why MBP may be increasingly prevalent in Asians. In any case, there are more studies out there that offer more data about it. Many of them are behind paywalls.

 

[I.D WALKER]

I am interested in this for experimental purposes. Do you recommend any particular product(s) I might use to replicate this study as closely as possible on my own?
Thanx

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Never mind that. I found it just recently.

 

[bridge]

I ordered the supplements, just arrive early
I'll keep you posted!
(I am an old user of a forum Italian)

 

[jnestor481]

Based on that first study, if you weigh 175lbs (79.3 kg) , you'd be taking 4.3 grams of laminaria and 12.9 grams of cistanche a day! That's a about 11 of those Swanson laminaria pills a day. Yikes.

I see there's a second study that has reduced dosage, but the 3:1 ratio of cistanche to lamaniaria is the same. Two academic studies back up this stuff, so it seems like it really does work. We have nothing to lose and it's cheap enough. Gonna buy the two swanson supplements right now. Keep everyone posted.

 

[kirk]

Also, the test subjects were given 150 mg CT for 16 weeks and saw an average of 20 extra hairs per square centimeter.

Based on that first study, if you weigh 175lbs (79.3 kg) , you'd be taking 4.3 grams of laminaria and 12.9 grams of cistanche a day! That's a about 11 of those Swanson laminaria pills a day. Yikes.

So which is it? Am I taking 1 pill a day or 11?

 

[jnestor481]

So which is it? Am I taking 1 pill a day or 11?

If you base your dosage on the first study done with the rats then yea it looks like you'd be taking 11 pills a day. Obviously that's ridiculous.

The second study done on humans was 150mg CT, different from the rat study. Clearly 150mg is a more reasonable dosage

 

[bridge]

any news?!

 

[feelsbad]

I bought these as well, not expecting anything, but you never know

 

[cocojambo]

Are these side free ?

Are they safe for a 16 year old?

 

[Norwood One]

Alright, I'll be the guinea pig. The studies do look promising

Buying this http://www.amazon.com/Life-Extensio...1439491723&sr=8-1&keywords=cistanche+tubulosa

I'll be taking CT once a day. Will report if anything happens in terms of increased hair growth/thickness. although I am on S5 and minoxidil 1x a day so it will be hard to tell if it's just the CT. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[ryan82]

Found another study with this combo:

AbstractThe anti-inflammatory effects of fuciodan and Cistanche tubulosa (CT) extract were investigated in vitromacrophage culture system and in vivo carrageenan-induced air pouch inflammation model. CT extract inhibited nitric oxide production from activated RAW 264.7 macrophage cells, while fucoidan was inactive. In vivo air pouch inflammation model, carrageenan-induced vascular exudation and increased nitric oxide and prostaglandin E2 concentrations in the exudates were synergistically suppressed by co-administration of fucoidan or CT extract. Moreover, tissue inflammation was substantially attenuated by the combinational therapy. However, there was no synergistic effect against the inflammatory cell infiltration, although fucoidan and CT extract each markedly reduced the cell numbers. Therefore, it is suggested that fucoidan blocks infiltration of inflammatory cells, while CT extract inhibits activation of the cells, and that their combinational treatment could be a promising candidate for the relief of various types of inflammation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3389844/

Maybe a topical is a idea?

 

[dusty]

What I find odd is that it cistanche believed to increase sexual health in men. Source http://supermanherbs.com/cistanche-tubulosa-benefits-side-effects/
I looked around some more and it seems as if it increases testosterone

 

[KiNGTyreZe]

What I find odd is that it cistanche believed to increase sexual health in men. Source http://supermanherbs.com/cistanche-tubulosa-benefits-side-effects/
I looked around some more and it seems as if it increases testosterone

So what? It's not Testosterone or DHT which let's your hair fall out but the inflammation caused from it. This treatment is promising to have anti-inflammatory effects and not to lower your testosterone.

 

[benjt]

Nah, that site is spitting BS. These are unspecific, general statements without any proof to back them up.

I'm really wondering what the mode of action of this plant is. Maybe its just another 5aR inhibitor like saw palmetto, or maybe it has very high levels of phytoestrogens. Or maybe something different altogether? Does anyone have any info on the mode of action?

 

[kirk]

Nah, that site is spitting BS. These are unspecific, general statements without any proof to back them up.

I'm really wondering what the mode of action of this plant is. Maybe its just another 5aR inhibitor like saw palmetto, or maybe it has very high levels of phytoestrogens. Or maybe something different altogether? Does anyone have any info on the mode of action?

I am interested in this plant as well. I found this link that has a lot of good information about it. Here is a paragraph from the page that describes active ingredients:

The active ingredients isolated from Cistanche include iridoid and phenylpropenoid glycosides, such as acetoside (also called verbascoside, named for Verbena, from which it was first isolated), echinacoside (also found in the Western herb echinacea), and cistanoside (named for cistanche). The active constituents of cistanche are quite similar to those of another kidney tonic, rehmannia, which is a yin nourishing tonic. In fact, all three of these glycosides are also found in rehmannia, along with its primary iridoid glycoside, catalpol. Rehmannia and cistanche are both rich in sterols, such as daucosterol and sitosterol. Thus, it could be that the "gentle" nature of cistanche as a yang tonic is due to having ingredients that also nourish yin.

Alibaba has several manufacturers that produce concentrated extract of this plant.

 

[dusty]

https://books.google.com/books?id=G...#v=onepage&q=Cistanche and dht levels&f=false

This link states that Cistanche can double testosterone levels and increase DHT. I am just saying that is you google "Cistanche and testosterone" you will find multiple sites saying that it increases testosterone. This study was no where near long enough to prove anything when it comes to hair loss.

 

[kirk]

At this point, there is no way to discredit this stuff. If there was, I'm sure I and others would do so. I guess the only way to proceed is to trial this stuff by being guinea pigs. In doing so, we will make a small contribution to the hair loss community and maybe discover something valuable.

I remain skeptical however. My main logic is... If this stuff has been available and used since ancient times, wouldn't someone have noticed if it cured hair loss? I assume being bald has always been a stigma.

 

[Norwood One]

At this point, there is no way to discredit this stuff. If there was, I'm sure I and others would do so. I guess the only way to proceed is to trial this stuff by being guinea pigs. In doing so, we will make a small contribution to the hair loss community and maybe discover something valuable.

I remain skeptical however. My main logic is... If this stuff has been available and used since ancient times, wouldn't someone have noticed if it cured hair loss? I assume being bald has always been a stigma.

I'm skeptical as well, butt f0cuk it, I'll try it.