Strong info for science minded gents

michael barry

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Herbal Aromatase Inhibition




There is evidence indicating men with androgenetic hair loss in fact have *lower* testosterone levels than men who are not balding, (as if losing hair weren't bad enough).

It seems counterintuitive being that hair loss is actually androgen mediated. That being the case, the expected corollary would be that one would anticipate finging higher estrogen in those with hair loss. It was not at all surprising when we found a study showing that men with acne, (another classic"androgen mediated" disorder) indeed do have higher estrogen levels than men with no acne. The hormonal pathogenesis of acne is almost identical to that of male pattern baldness, i.e. elevated 5AR activity, increased sebum emission, inflammation, bacterial infiltrates etc .The available evidence indicates that male pattern baldness, like acne, involves higher levels of DHT and estrogen, and lower testosterone. Of additional interest is that it has been established that men with prostate disorders typically have higher estrogen as well.


Chin Med J (Engl). 1989 Mar;102(3):236-8.

Testosterone and estradiol serum levels in acne
45 acne patients and 38 healthy subjects were assayed for serum testosterone and estradiol levels by RIA. The results showed that serum testosterone levels of male patients were normal, but serum estradiol levels were significantly higher (40%) than in healthy males. In female patients, estradiol levels were normal, but testosterone levels were significantly higher (47%) than in healthy females. Of the 18 female patients, 16 had various degrees of menstrual dysfunction, and some even had slight hirsutism. Therefore, male acne patients should not be treated with estrogen and in female acne patients with ovarian dysfunction, artificial menstrual cycle therapy is recommended.


Further evidence indicates that lowering DHT alone, as with Propecia and Avodart, is only partially effective at best for stopping the progression of male pattern baldness, and even then for a limited amount of time. Both Propecia and Avodart are known for raising estrogen as well as reducing serum DHT levels, thus compromising the full potential benefit of lowering DHT for scalp hair growth and prostate disorders.

It's a classic case of 2 steps forward and one and a half steps back for hair growth.

This isn't even taking into account the well established side effects of increased estrogen in men, i.e., increase in belly fat, decrease in libido, increased disposition to inflammation, decreased immunity, etc..

The ideal solution to this dilemma is to simultaneously inhibit aromatase AND 5 alpha reductase, not just 5-alpha reductase alone. Aromatase, as many already know, is the enzyme that converts estrogens from androgens. Aromatase and consequently estrogen, increase as men age and is largely implicated in abdominal mass increase, prostate enlargement, hirsutism (body hair growth, particularly on back), and depression. This combination of medical problems, seen in the majority of American middle aged men has been termede the "Estrogen Syndrome" among endocrinologists.

By inhibiting both 5 alpha reductase and aromatase, one increases testosterone and decreases both DHT and estrogen, optimizing the hormone profile for muscle mass maintenance, libido, bodyfat, and for our purposes, hair growth.

How to inhibit aromatase???
There are several compounds, both herbal, and pharmaceutical, that are useful.

Arimidex is an aromatase inhibiting drug that is used in the treatment of breast cancer. It has been in vogue for years in the bodybuilding community who found that it generally prevents breast enlargement among anabolic steroid users. It has interestingly also been used to increase final adult height in children, (for those sports parents). Its drawback is its cost- typically $280.00 or more a month. Insurance will only cover in certain cases of diagnosed breast cancer.

Alternatives do exist.
Several compounds, some of which are already recommended in our treatment protocol, have been shown to inhibit aromatase and have additional benefits for health, anti-aging, and hair growth. Most notable among these compounds are Green Tea Extract, Grape Seed/Resveratrol Extract, Pomegranate Extract, Melatonin, and Chrysin/piperine (Chrysin without piperine is useless , as it is not absorbed).


Cancer Res. 2006 Jun 1;66(11):5960-7.

Grape seed extract is an aromatase inhibitor and a suppressor of aromatase expression.

Department of Surgical Research, Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope, Duarte, California, USA.
Aromatase is the enzyme that converts androgen to estrogen. It is expressed at higher levels in breast cancer tissues than normal breast tissues. Grape seed extract (GSE) contains high levels of procyanidin dimers that have been shown in our laboratory to be potent inhibitors of aromatase. In this study, GSE was found to inhibit aromatase activity in a dose-dependent manner and reduce androgen-dependent tumor growth in an aromatase-transfected MCF-7 (MCF-7aro) breast cancer xenograft model, agreeing with our previous findings. We have also examined the effect of GSE on aromatase expression. Reverse transcription-PCR experiments showed that treatment with 60 mug/mL of GSE suppressed the levels of exon I.3-, exon PII-, and exon I.6-containing aromatase mRNAs in MCF-7 and SK-BR-3 cells. The levels of exon I.1-containing mRNA, however, did not change with GSE treatment. Transient transfection experiments with luciferase-aromatase promoter I.3/II or I.4 reporter vectors showed th!
e suppression of the promoter activity in a dose-dependent manner. The GSE treatment also led to the down-regulation of two transcription factors, cyclic AMP-responsive element binding protein-1 (CREB-1) and glucocorticoid receptor (GR). CREB-1 and GR are known to up-regulate aromatase gene expression through promoters I.3/II and I.4, respectively. We believe that these results are exciting in that they show GSE to be potentially useful in the prevention/treatment of hormone-dependent breast cancer through the inhibition of aromatase activity as well as its expression.

Breast Cancer Res Treat. 2002 Feb;71(3):203-17
Chemopreventive and adjuvant therapeutic potential of pomegranate (Punica granatum) for human breast cancer.

Department of Pharmacy, Pusan National University, Korea.
Fresh organically grown pomegranates (Punica granatum L.) of the Wonderful cultivar were processed into three components: fermented juice, aqueous pericarp extract and cold-pressed or supercritical CO2-extracted seed oil. Exposure to additional solvents yielded polyphenol-rich fractions ('polyphenols') from each of the three components. Their actions, and of the crude whole oil and crude fermented and unfermented juice concentrate, were assessed in vitro for possible chemopreventive or adjuvant therapeutic potential in human breast cancer. The ability to effect a blockade of endogenous active estrogen biosynthesis was shown by polyphenols from fermented juice, pericarp, and oil, which inhibited aromatase activity by 60-80%. Fermented juice and pericarp polyphenols, and whole seed oil, inhibited 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase Type 1 from 34 to 79%, at concentrations ranging from 100 to 1,000 microg/ml according to seed oil >> fermented juice polyphenols > pericarp poly!
phenols. In a yeast estrogen screen (YES) lyophilized fresh pomegranate juice effected a 55% inhibition of the estrogenic activity of 17-beta-estradiol; whereas the lyophilized juice by itself displayed only minimal estrogenic action. Inhibition of cell lines by fermented juice and pericarp polyphenols was according to estrogen-dependent (MCF-7) >> estrogen-independent (MB-MDA-231) > normal human breast epithelial cells (MCF-10A). In both MCF-7 and MB-MDA-231 cells, fermented pomegranate juice polyphenols consistently showed about twice the anti-proliferative effect as fresh pomegranate juice polyphenols. Pomegranate seed oil effected 90% inhibition of proliferation of MCF-7 at 100 microg/ml medium, 75% inhibition of invasion of MCF-7 across a Matrigel membrane at 10 microg/ml, and 54% apoptosis in MDA-MB-435 estrogen receptor negative metastatic human breast cancer cells at 50 microg/ml. In a murine mammary gland organ culture, fermented juice polyphenols effected 47% inhi!
bition of cancerous lesion formation induced by the carcinogen 7,12-di
methylbenz[a]anthracene (DMBA). The findings suggest that clinical trials to further assess chemopreventive and adjuvant therapeutic applications of pomegranate in human breast cancer may be warranted.

Food Chem Toxicol. 2002 Jul;40(7):925-33
Inhibition of aromatase activity by green tea extract catechins and their endocrinological effects of oral administration in rats.
Department of Toxicology, The Tokyo Metropolitan Research Laboratory of Public Health, 24-1 Hyakunincho 3 chome, Shinjuku-ku, Japan. sato@tokyo-eiken.go.jp
We orally administered polyphenone-60 (P-60), green tea extract catechins, in the diet (0, 1.25 and 5%) to male rats for 2, 4 and 8 weeks initiated at 5 weeks old. It was found that a 5% dose to male rats for 2-8 weeks induced goiters and decreased weights of the body, testis and prostate gland. Endocrinologically, elevating plasma thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), luteinizing hormone (LH) and testosterone levels and decreasing tri-iodothyronine (T(3)) and thyroxine (T(4)) levels were induced by this treatment. We also found that P-60 as a whole and some of its constituents exhibited inhibitory effects on human placental aromatase activity by in vitro assay. The concentration of P-60 that required producing 50% inhibition of the aromatase activity (IC(50) value) was 28 microg/ml. The IC(50) values of (-)-catechin gallate (Cg), (-)-epigallocatechin (EGC), (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCg) and (-)-gallocatechin gallate (GCg) were 5.5 x 10(-6), 1.0 x 10(-4), 6.0 x 10(-5) and!
1.5 x 10(-5) M, respectively. (-)- Epicatechin gallate (ECg) at 1.0 x 10(-4) M produced 20% inhibition. (-)-Epicatechin (EC) and (+)-catechin (CT) exhibited no effects on aromatase activity. The endocrinological changes observed in vivo were in conformity with antithyroid effects and aromatase inhibition effects of P-60 and its constituents.
Melatonin modulates aromatase activity in MCF-7 human breast cancer cells.
Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, School of Medicine, University of Cantabria, Santander, Spain.
Most of the current knowledge about the mechanisms by which melatonin inhibits the growth of breast cancer cells point to an interaction of melatonin with estrogen-responsive pathways, thus behaving as an antiestrogenic hormone. However, a possible effect of melatonin on the local synthesis of estrogens had not been examined. The objective of this work was to study whether melatonin may modify the aromatase activity in MCF-7 breast cancer cells thus modulating the local estrogen biosynthesis. In MCF-7 cells cultured with testosterone in estradiol-free media, melatonin (1 nM) counteracts the testosterone-induced cell proliferation dependent on the local biosynthesis of estrogens from testosterone by the aromatase activity of the cells. We found that melatonin reduces the aromatase activity (measured by the tritiated water release assay) of MCF-7 cells both at basal conditions and when aromatase activity was stimulated by cAMP or cortisol. The greatest inhibition of the aromat!
ase activity was obtained with 1 nm melatonin, the same concentration that gives the highest antiproliferative and anti-invasive effects of MCF-7 cells. Finally, by RT-PCR, we found that melatonin downregulates aromatase expression at the transcriptional level in the MCF-7 cells. We conclude that melatonin, at physiological concentrations, decreases aromatase activity and expression in MCF-7 cells. This aromatase inhibitory effect of melatonin, together with its already known antiestrogenic properties interacting with the estrogen-receptor, makes this indoleamine an interesting tool to be considered in


When used in full or partial combination, one would obtain the benefits of aromatase inhibition without having to resort to Arimidex, and would get a plethora of health and hair growth promoting benefits in the process.
When used in conjunction with Propecia or Avodart, the side effects of these drugs would significantly diminish, and their benefit for hair growth enhanced. Feedback from the steroid using bodybuilding community, (often a source of good information) has been positive about the ability of these herbal/supplements to prevent "gyno" or breast enlargement.
To reiterate-5 AR inhibition plus aromatase inhibition equals better hair growth and better health.


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So

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This is a great article, how come we have only come to know about this now or has it been further debated in the past?
 

So

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Can Bryan chime in with supporting evidence for estrogen and as to why the findings above may be incorrect?

I notice alot of people employing the use of grape seed extract and green tea extract already.

Some of the symptoms such as: abdominal mass increase, prostate enlargement, hirsutism (body hair growth, particularly on back), and depression seem quyite relevant to what some of us experience.

I've noticed increased hair over my body, back, shouldes, hands, although mostly vellus. Depression is something that comes hand in hand with hair loss and as hair loss progresses further down the track often so does your depressive state.

Though depression is symptamatic of the result it could be further fueld by increasing estrogen.

Coincidence?
 

So

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So no one has any viable thoughts on such an interesting topic?
 

Bryan

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So said:
Can Bryan chime in with supporting evidence for estrogen and as to why the findings above may be incorrect?

I've been discussing the estrogen evidence for YEARS on hairloss sites. I'm all "estrogened-out" at the moment! :(

You can probably find lots of info on it by doing a search.

Bryan
 

htownballa

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I saw a person with CAIS...had GREAT hair....genotypically male but phenotypically female


People with CAIS have no testosterone but LOTS of estrogen, so they become "female" even though they are male genetically
 

wookster

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:eek: :eek: :eek:

http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/archive/ ... p?pid=1086

Occipital hair doesn’t readily fall out for two reasons: It’s less sensitive to the effects of DHT, and it contains a high level of aromatase, the enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen. Women lose hair less readily than men because their scalps contain higher estrogen levels than men have there. Among other things, estrogen opposes the activity of DHT in hair.
 

So

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Well this is annoying because I am reading conflicting stories.

They say "..estrogen opposes the activity of DHT in hair. "

BUT

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/planet32.htm

Says,


"Men, especially those with genetic predisposition, should have these estrogen metabolite levels monitored if they want to do all they can to avoid baldness, prostate cancer and obesity, all associated with high estrogens (especially estradiol and 16-alpha-hydroxestrone)."


INFACT! I suggest you all read http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/planet32.htm for it is a good article none the less!
 

Matgallis

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my head hurts... :shock:
 

Bryan

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So said:
Well this is annoying because I am reading conflicting stories.

They say "..estrogen opposes the activity of DHT in hair. "

BUT

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/planet32.htm

Says,

"Men, especially those with genetic predisposition, should have these estrogen metabolite levels monitored if they want to do all they can to avoid baldness, prostate cancer and obesity, all associated with high estrogens (especially estradiol and 16-alpha-hydroxestrone)."

Don't take too seriously any site that attempts to indict estrogen as a cause of balding simply by arguing that it's "associated" with problems common in aging men (prostate problems, obesity, and balding). That's a very simplistic argument that you shouldn't blindly accept. In fact, most of the available evidence suggests that estrogen does indeed protect scalp hair follicles, like that first quote says.

Bryan
 

NYVic20

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That seems to make sense since, women usually experience hair loss after menopause when estrogen levels drop in thier bodies.
 
G

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i made a post like this awhile ago and bryan dismissed all of it saying it was unproven i think.
 

Bryan

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What NYVic20 said?? No, I agree with him.
 
G

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Bryan said:
What NYVic20 said?? No, I agree with him.

huh? you agree with nyvic or michael barry?

i remember making a post awhile ago showing that link about how someone said estrogen was really bad for hair and you dismissed it saying it had been around all the hair loss sites for years. michael barry's post seems very similar.
 

So

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Are there not good AND bad estrogens AND would it not be possible for those which are adversley bad for us (men in particular) to cause hair loss?

The very reason why women have full heads of hair can not be linked directly and purely to estrogen alone, I don't buy that since we are comparing apples to oranges.
 

michael barry

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I posted that article because I got it free in my mail. I only "skimmed" read it before putting it up. Bryan is almost certainly right about estrogen. I'll go into why in a sec.


First let me briefly summarize what I think happens in baldness in one short paragraph: "This is what I think happens in Baldness.................DHT and/or Testosterone gets uptaken in receptor sites on dermal papillas over the years. Negative growth factors are released by dermal papilla cells following the genetic instructions in the pre-disposed hair's DNA. Three of these negative growth factors are TGF-beta 1, TNF-alpha, and PKC (or protien Kinase C) gets relased. They hurt the growth of the other cells. One of these, or perhaps a negative growth factor that we dont know about yet, attracts the attention of the immune system. It attacks the hair or hair area as a "foreign body" with superoxides. The skin and hair and hair DNA get damaged over the years, leading to a premature ageing of the hair and scalp, and damaging of the microcapillaries that feed the hair. The connective tissue sheath gets hardened collagen around it also, inhibiting the hair root from thickening to its potential. A fat and a water layer gets lost. The area in question is inflammed also. None of this is good for your hair. Hairs get smaller and scalp becomes visible."


Now on estrogen
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking at it closely. I have to agree with Bryan. If estrogen caused male pattern hairloss, women would be going bald. male pattern baldness-research.org as a website has a "buyers club". This is how "buyers clubs" work. They buy, in bulk, a ton of a said supplement at perhaps 80% of the normal price. They sell it to you at 90% of the price. They make alot of money based on that 10% difference. The reason they can get more sales than the producer is that folks looking into baldness treatments may not know that grape seed extract can inhibit PKC-activity or whatever it does inhibit, but readers or male pattern baldness-research.org (or subscribers to it) will know that. The estrogen is probably a smoke screen (even estriadol, the strongest estrogen) just so male pattern baldness-research can sell more supplements.


The probable reason many men who are overweight or have male pattern baldness or both have higher estrogen levels is because their testosterone levels in many cases will be "down". Lots of this is due to mild depression. Balding men would be much happier men if they had full heads of hair. Dont believe me? Ask yourself if ICX perfected cloning tommorow, the government was going to pay for it, and every man alive could have NW1-level movie star-Patrick Dempsey hair by Easter. Would you be happier waking up every day with a strong full hairline, that was never going anywhere? Bet you would. You'd be very confident with women, and probably be more successful with them, be more motivated to pump iron, etc. Baldness is hugely painful. If you dont believe me, ask yourself what happens when women lose their hair. Ever read women's hairloss forums? Real pain there. Suicidal thoughts, etc. Men just bear it. They hate it, but they bear it.

I think the best we can do to fight baldness safely at this time is to cut DHT with finasteride, try receptor blockers like spironolactone/fluridil/perhaps revivogen, injecst things like curcuimin, green tea extract, and vitamin E in generous amounts to attempt to cut down on negative growth factor activity, and treat the balding area with things that try and counteract the immuno response like the very good prox-n.

As a regimine that would be finasteride, sprio 2X a day, prox-n applied with the spironolactone. The supplements mentioned above OR at least....................................Eat one green apple a day, drink 2 beers a day, drink a couple of bottles of green tea a day. Although the supplements listed above would indeed be better. These things would help with the TGF-beta one, TNF-alpha, and PKC activity because lets face it.......................................you are NEVER going to block all receptor sites from T and DHT all the friggin' time. There will be some androgen binding in your hair no matter what unless you get castrated. Even castrates make a little bit of testosterone through their adrenals.



BY the way, for any following the thread......................Ive never known Bryan to attempt to mislead anyone. He's looked into hair for many years, and unlike a few others, seems to be willing to help some "newbies' with suggestions. Over the years, Ive run into some RSG's (real smart guys) on hairlosshelp, etc. that found out what they were looking for but never attempt to help any laypeople like me with ideas about what they can do for baldness. A regular Joe that fixes cars does not want to become a friggin' biology major to help save his hair until a real cure comes out. Bryan has been nice enough to help these folks from time to time.
 

Matgallis

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Very nice post ^

clears some information up for me
 

So

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Micahel what is this business about two beers a day? I had five tonight so is that a bad thing :p

Either way I am not convinced by either side of the story now. Though I would like to see some damning evidence in favour of estrogen being essential/vital for hair.

Else as it currently stands with various publications say yes and some saying no; I am drawn between the two.

Regards...
 

michael barry

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So,

Im going to cut and past a paragraph from pubmed about barley proanthocycanidin B-3 for you:

"Procyanidin B-3, isolated from barley and identified as a hair-growth stimulant, has the potential to counteract inhibitory regulation by TGF-beta1.

Kamimura A, Takahashi T.

Tsukuba Research Laboratories, Kyowa Hakko Kogyo Co, Tsukuba, Ibaraki, Japan. ayako.kamimura@kyowa.co.jp

With the aim of identifying natural products, which possess hair-growing activity, we examined more than 1000 plant extracts with respect to their growth-promoting effects on hair epithelial cells. We discovered intensive growth-promoting activity, about 140% relative to controls, in barley extract. Our strategy for identifying active compounds in barley extract involved subjecting it to column chromatography using HP-20 resin columns, an LH-20 resin column, and preparative high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) using an ODS column. The 60% (v/v) aqueous methanol eluted fraction from the HP-20 column and the 75% (v/v) aqueous methanol eluted fraction from the subsequent LH-20 column showed high hair-growing activity in vivo. We isolated two major substances from the LH-20 active fraction using preparative HPLC. By means of mass spectrometry, 1H-NMR, and 13C-NMR analyses, one substance was revealed to be procyanidin B-3 and the other substance was identified as (+)-catechin. Purified procyanidin B-3 showed high hair-growing activity in the form of in vitro hair epithelial cell growth-promoting activity and in vivo anagen-inducing activity; however (+)-catechin showed no hair-growing activity. For the purpose of examining the hair-growing mechanisms of procyanidin B-3, we examined its relationship to the TGF-beta signal pathway, which is known to be a regulator of catagen induction. Addition of TGF-beta1 to hair epithelial cell cultures dose-dependently decreased the cell growth, and addition of procyanidin B-3 to the culture neutralized the growth-inhibiting effect of TGF-beta1. From these results, it is concluded that procyanidin B-3 can directly promote hair epithelial cell growth in vitro, has the potential to counteract the growth-inhibiting effect caused by TGF-beta1 in vitro, and has potential to stimulate anagen induction in vivo."

PMID: 12473061 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



There is a product called applepoly that puts the B-2 proanthocyandins from green apple skins, barley extract B-3 proanthocyaninds and C-1 proanthocyandins from Grape seed extract all in one topical. Its unfortunately expensive.


Its funny now that science is getting around to testing some of the centuries-old herbal remedies for baldness that they are indeed finding some kernels of truth to them. Compounds withing some of the old "essential oils' have anti-androgenic propertires (like lavendar and rosemary), anti-inflammatory (lemongrass, thyme), and perhaps some growth enhancing properties (linalool, limonene---------might have the correct form of vitamin-C, abscorbyl palmitate, in low amounts).


Beer and eggs shampoo has been an "old grandma's" remedy for baldness for a long time. Might actually help a bit as beer has barley and hops therein. Both have proanthocyanidins. Native Americans were known to put grape pulp on their heads for more luxuraint hair growth. C-1 proanthocyandins in that. Apple cider vinegar is another old "grandmothers" remedy you'll read about on herbal sites. B-2 proanthocycanins there. Each of the proanthocyandins are anti-inflammatories and quite effective anti-oxidants, but they all seem to help countermeasure to an extent the negative growth factors released by dermal papilla's after DHT or T is uptaken by a receptor (read Docj077's regimine and many of his posts for more info on this).

Usually, internals are better than externals. Doctor takes curcumin extract, green tea extract twice a day, and 333% of vitamin E. What Ive outlined above are some things that could be perhaps used in a 10 minute pre-shampoo soak or added to your shampoo to help inhibit the action of some of the antigens released by the papilla topically also. Drinking a couple of beers would get you a few B-2 proanthocyanidins that might help counteract the TGF-beta 1 released by dermal papilla cells to the rest of the follicle, although it would probably be much better to take the curcumin extract.

By the way, some Mexican indians used aloe vera on their heads for more luxuriant hair. We have found that this might help with nitric oxide release and is an anti-inflammatory. Its in quite a few products including folligen, and tricomin shampoo, and apple poly...............so some folks think it can help.


I'd love to come up with a "homemade topical" that perhaps could be used before the shower and washed in with shampoo. Downregulating PKC, TNF-alpha, and TGF-beta are things docj077 has touched on that might help. Look at his posts, he's a smart guy.
 
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