Stress and Hairloss - My thoughts backed with data.

[bobs]

Some people say stress has nothing to do with male pattern baldness-hairloss starting, some people say it may not start it but accelerate it once it has started by genetics etc. Anyway, point so far is that a lot of people say a lot of stuff about stress and hairloss. It is difficult to conduct scientific research focusing on this problem directly since how do you really know if someone is stressed and how does one measure stress, these are important questions to answer when dealing with science. Let's leave science out of it for a second and bear with me.

I have been thinking for a very long time now about the causes to my own hairloss, no one in my family has as early hairloss as me and before I started loosing my hair I went through several stressful events and I am still not recoevered from them (because of hairloss stress continued). My scientific mind says stress shouldn't have done that much but I couldn't leave the thought that maybe it could and today while I was reading some articles online I came across something interesting.

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/n ... inser.html

with the line;

A patient's belief in the treatment and the placebo response are dependent upon a variety of factors. First, the patient's expectations of treatment effects clearly influence the responses. For example, a study in England was done where 100 men were told that they were taking chemotherapy, when in actuality they were taking inactive saline solution. 20% of these men lost their hair, demonstrating the power of the belief of effects of the treatment.

http://www.wrf.org/alternative-therapie ... lacebo.php

with the line;

In a recent study of a new kind of chemotherapy, 30 percent of the individuals in the control group, the group given placebos, lost their hair.

So what does this say? While I was stressed I didnt imagine I might lose my hair so the connection is not straight but rather that the way we Think and Feel can affect if we loose hair or not. One could still argue that these people had Telogen Effluvium, that even if they were receiving a placebo they were so stressed because obviously they had cancer and this might be their last option and thus had Telogen Effluvium and not any male pattern baldness-related hairloss, but Telogen Effluvium worsens male pattern baldness, it can trigger male pattern baldness and probably keep it going stronger than if one wasn't as stressed.

Besides there is evidence that stress gives higher insulin levels that lowers SHBG that leaves more T free to convert to DHT that causes hairloss.

Now I don't say stress can be the only factor, I even recognise that I might be under male pattern baldness-ONLY hairloss even if no one in my family had as early hairloss as me.

Well, what I care to spell out is that the future does look promising when it comes to better hairloss products than we got today, the future might even hold a cure waiting for us around the corner. It might not have it too, there might not be a better product than we got today for another 20 or 30 years, there is a possibility there too. However, what do you want to believe in and does it matter what you believe in?

And also, I see a lot of young people posting and saying they were under stress when they started loosing hair and then a lot of respones with people saying that it probably didn't have a lot to do with it and that they should start eating propecia, use nizoral and apply minoxidil. I say do apply all that but also remember that past-stress could have been, even if a minor, villain in the drama and that future-stress probably and most likely be a, major now, villain in the drama.

So take it easy, try to have some hope (I know it can be difficult). And yes, I myself hate posts like this but I was in this good mood tonight so I thought I gay (old sense of the word) up a bit.

Nightie!

 

[oyo]

I would guess that the main link is through inflammation.

 

[CCS]

Stress does affect hormone production. When you get scared, you release cortisol so that your body had more blood sugar so you have energy to fight. Adrinaline is released too.

I read from other souces that stress causes your body to make more 5ar, which leads to more DHT. Do propecia counteracts this, but you'd do better if you did not stress in the first place.

As for the placebo studies, I'd like to see some statistics on what percentage of people with cancer lose their hair, even if they are not on chemo. Who knows if it was the stress of knowing they have cancer or being told they are on kemo that made them lose their hair.



Did you know that propecia works best on hairs that are still thick? The thin ones usually continue to die off. DHT alters the follicle in a cumulative way. Stop it soon enough, and the hair grows back. Don't stop it soon enough, and the immune system gets in there and attacks it even after you remove the DHT. Also, after a point, the androgen receptor is sensitive enough that even testosterone can trigger it. That or the follicle is altered enough that it only needs a small push to get the immune system in there.

Either way, we need topical androgen receptor blockers. EGCG is one. spironolactone is another. So is licorice. All three are stable at pH 4.

I think that estrogen can reverse the actions of DHT. Apply enough estrogen topically, and you can change the follicle back so the immune system no longer attacks it. So far lavender is the only estrogen mimicer I know of. Also a hair stimulant. I want a topical estrogen for my face though. I think that will get rid of the redness. Licorice mimics estrogen too. Maybe I should just be happy with the licorice for my face, but I'd like to get my hands on some 17-estradiol. I think immune attack is part of my face aging. I'm not out in the sun.

 

[RaginDemon]

Stress does affect hormone production. When you get scared, you release cortisol so that your body had more blood sugar so you have energy to fight. Adrinaline is released too.

I read from other souces that stress causes your body to make more 5ar, which leads to more DHT. Do propecia counteracts this, but you'd do better if you did not stress in the first place.

As for the placebo studies, I'd like to see some statistics on what percentage of people with cancer lose their hair, even if they are not on chemo. Who knows if it was the stress of knowing they have cancer or being told they are on kemo that made them lose their hair.



Did you know that propecia works best on hairs that are still thick? The thin ones usually continue to die off. DHT alters the follicle in a cumulative way. Stop it soon enough, and the hair grows back. Don't stop it soon enough, and the immune system gets in there and attacks it even after you remove the DHT. Also, after a point, the androgen receptor is sensitive enough that even testosterone can trigger it. That or the follicle is altered enough that it only needs a small push to get the immune system in there.

Either way, we need topical androgen receptor blockers. EGCG is one. spironolactone is another. So is licorice. All three are stable at pH 4.

I think that estrogen can reverse the actions of DHT. Apply enough estrogen topically, and you can change the follicle back so the immune system no longer attacks it. So far lavender is the only estrogen mimicer I know of. Also a hair stimulant. I want a topical estrogen for my face though. I think that will get rid of the redness. Licorice mimics estrogen too. Maybe I should just be happy with the licorice for my face, but I'd like to get my hands on some 17-estradiol. I think immune attack is part of my face aging. I'm not out in the sun.

I hope applying topical estrogen on your head, you wont start growing a virgina. You won't be a virgin for long if you have a pussy on your head.

 

[bobs]

Glad this thread is taking such an interesting turn...

CCS, most placebo effects are ill-documented since they have not been the focus of attention during the testing. What you got is a lot of stuff that I posted earlier with falting seriousness but take it with a grain of salt.

CCS, do you have the studies where stress -> more 5ar production? I thought 5ar-levels were static but I guess I was wrong.

I read a very interesting article by Bernstein, I have tried to find it again but I can't seem to. Anyway, in it he said the main benefit of propecia is not the actual REGROWTH but re-thickening of hair. What you got on most early-balding scalps are not actual bald areas but thinning areas you want to reverse and propecia is very good for that job. He also had a lot of stuff in that article speaking about how the thickness of hairs make for the numbers etc etc. It was interesting anyway, anyone know what article I speak of?

 

[oyo]

cortisol usually reduces inflammation, i don't think thats directly causing problems.

 

[bobs]

oyo,

Your first post, care to put into more words? I believe you have it right but I would like to know more about it.

 

[oyo]

oyo,

Your first post, care to put into more words? I believe you have it right but I would like to know more about it.

well inflammation is best established link between stress and a number of illnesses; considering the role of over-active inflammatory processes in the minaturization of hair follicles, i would think inflammation would be one way stress could cause hair loss (although not shedding).

 

[bubka]

with the line;

In a recent study of a new kind of chemotherapy, 30 percent of the individuals in the control group, the group given placebos, lost their hair.

So what does this say?

I says that hair loss because of male pattern baldness and hair loss because of radiation are two totally different mechanisms

plus, 30% is a great number, and I am not doubting a placebo effect, but what was the sample size of this experiment, if they did it with 10 people, that's not even significant... the article does not cite it in the study

 

[bobs]

Bubka,
yea but the first study had 20 of 100 people and that is signifcant.

 

[bubka]

regardless, these are two totally different mechanism for hair loss

 

[bobs]

Bubka,

Yes they are, but that is not the point. The point is that these people were not exposed to chemotherapy, they just thought they were.

The real point was to prove that you CAN loose a lot of hair by stress, in the end it is hair we are talking about, male pattern baldness or not.

 

[Johnny24601]

Stress can certainly increase the aging process and trigger the body to start attacking follicles early. However this just effects the rate of hairloss as the underlying cause is DHT sensitivity and this is a strictly genetic condition.
You state that there is no one in your family who has had hairloss this early in life and I'm trying to figure out whether you have a time machine or have somehow collected a series of photographs from all the men in your family over time. Sure men in your family may think they had no hairloss when you ask them but they really have no clue as many men don't even recognize (or some just ignore) their hairloss for many years. Not to mention the gene for male pattern baldness can be passed to you from the geneological line of women in your family who show no sign of hairloss.
My point, you are not uncovering some profound hairloss cause. Stress effects your immune system and the health of your entire body and is obviously not a good thing for your body, however, if you do not have follicles that are sensitive to DHT, then all the stress in the world will not cause male pattern baldness and you will not lose hair.

 

[bobs]

then all the stress in the world will not cause male pattern baldness and you will not lose hair.

Johnny, there are other ways to loose hair than male pattern baldness, you did know that right?
I mean, that you can have basically NO DHT sensitivity and yet loose all your hair (Telogen Effluvium), it should however grow back if
the source for stress is removed AND you are 5ar-deficient, if you are sensitive to DHT then Telogen Effluvium will start and worsen your hairloss.

And as I have basically said all the time, if you stress your DHT levels can go up and thus stress can start male pattern baldness-hairloss, you did know that too right? Or did you think it could just accelerate hairloss?

So I don't agree with you. The POINT with this post was not to say that EVERYONE that loose hair loose it because of stress and that DHT has nothing to do with it, if that was your interpretation, read my post again from the beginning, more carefully.
The POINT was that stress can have a part of it (male pattern baldness-related hairloss, and NON-male pattern baldness related hairloss), now how BIG that part can be I'm leaving out of it since I don't know.

I did say that my hairloss could be ENTIRERLY male pattern baldness-related with no stress indications whatsoever, since, as you yourself pointed out, there can be hidden genes and there can be relatives I have not known from far away carrying the same gene that was passed on to me.

So next time you give your point, give it after reading and understanding what my point was.

Thank you

 

[bubka]

Bubka,

Yes they are, but that is not the point. The point is that these people were not exposed to chemotherapy, they just thought they were.

The real point was to prove that you CAN loose a lot of hair by stress, in the end it is hair we are talking about, male pattern baldness or not.

it says 30% of people lost their hair... given that 66% of males lose their hair, and half the population is male, that gives me about 33% of the people in the study... and we are not even talking about women who lose their hair

I am not denying the power of stress and hair loss, but the study is not that meaningful to me

 

[bobs]

Bubka, I was refering to my first quote/study.

A patient's belief in the treatment and the placebo response are dependent upon a variety of factors. First, the patient's expectations of treatment effects clearly influence the responses. For example, a study in England was done where 100 men were told that they were taking chemotherapy, when in actuality they were taking inactive saline solution. 20% of these men lost their hair, demonstrating the power of the belief of effects of the treatment.

 

[Johnny24601]

Every time someone tries to trump up some theory on male pattern baldness they always refer to Telogen Effluvium to somehow defend their point of view. Well I did not mention Telogen Effluvium because it is a completely different condition then male pattern baldness with totally different characteristics and not to mention it is somewhat rare especially compared to male pattern baldness. Namely, Telogen Effluvium is a health condition in which hair over the ENTIRE HEAD falls out and the hairloss does not follow the typical Norwood scale with frontal loss being very rare. Not to mention the hairloss is more sudden and it eventually grows back. male pattern baldness is a genetic condition that involves the prolonged miniaturization of the follicles over time and it is not reversible.
My point, if your hairloss follows the Norwood scale then there is a 99% chance that you have male pattern baldness caused by genetics....period. It is not stress, shampoo, diet, smoking, alcohol or environment (though it is reasonable to assume that those factors can effect hair quality to a lesser degree).
Look male pattern baldness is extensively studied and the first company to come up with a solution to hairloss that is close to 100% effective without side effects will become ridiculously rich, yet everyday someone comes to this site and thinks they have some new groundbreaking theory based on their daily observations in mirror. It is my opinion that these people are attempting to gain control of the situation by convincing themselves that their hairloss is due to something else and in most cases these theories come from people who did not expect to go bald this early in life. The process many men go through is denial to crazy theories then finally acceptance.

 

[bobs]

Johnny, please I beg you, READ my post first before you get off ok?

DHT causes male pattern baldness-related hairloss right and stress can raise DHT levels and thus start/worsen male pattern baldness-related hairloss.

 

[Johnny24601]

I read the study and I just don't see how it is really applicable. Again, I think you are "reaching" for some sort of solution when it is obvious, you have a genetic condition that is proven to be unpredictable in cause but predictable in its process. Not to mention the article you reference even states that it is not authoritative but simply a guide to encourage others to look closer.
The reality is that stress is not good for your health but it is at most a secondary contributor to male pattern baldness.
I also don't agree with your individual "placebo effect" theory. I think you are missing a point, many (especially health experts) do not necessarily look at male pattern baldness as some sort of sickness that requires healing but rather a natural body function that eventually effects a majority of men, so placebo effects are not really applicable IMO as I don't necessarily think you are sick. It is somewhat akin to having a hairy chest, thick beard or even tiny breasts as not everyone has it but it is strictly effects appearance and does not need to be healed. It is society that makes us feel like we are "sick" and need healing. The placebo effect on the other hand is to cure a sickness. Just because our current society thinks baldness is ugly does not mean that it is a sickness. This is why many doctors have such a cavalier attitude with hairloss because many don't think you should be trying to "treat" a normal genetic process. Currently many young women (especially in the West) think hairy guys are ugly yet in the past they were looked at as sexy and manly. Many men are now "treating" their hairy chest or back through shaving, waxing and laser and have the point of view that there is something wrong with being hairy when in reality it is simply our vain society that makes the individual feel as if he needs "healing". Do these hairy guys suffer some sort of placebo effect as well? I am getting of topic, but the reality is that there is some reason why baldness developed and natural selection tells us that it is likely that baldness is so prevalent because there was some sort of benefit.
Anyways, you are balding because of your follicle's sensitivity to DHT which is a genetic condition. Can it be accelerated through stress, possibly, but what are looking to conclude here? I mean stress is terrible for your body and mind in a variety of fronts and needs to be alleviated if you want to be a healthy and happy human being. Regardless if you have male pattern baldness or not, you must work to avoid stress. However, I will state again that without the underlying genetic condition of male pattern baldness, all the stress in the world will not cause hairloss (unless you suffer the very rare condition of Telogen Effluvium which is totally reversible).
Research is not clear, but at some point the body (of men with male pattern baldness) triggers an immune defense in our follicles. Presumably this occurs with age and because stress can increase the aging process, it is reasonable to conclude that stress can accelerate your bodies auto immune response within the follicles.
Look, our current research (as far as I have seen) is clear, the only 100% sure solution to stop male pattern baldness related hairloss is castration (i.e. stopping the production of testosterone and therefore DHT conversion).

 

[Johnny24601]

I see nothing conclusive that states stress raises DHT levels. Again, stress may increase the aging process and trigger the earlier onset of male pattern baldness, but I see no evidence that stress raises testosterone levels. Please provide a peer reviewed studied that concludes this.....