Strange thing about Propecia

[hairschmair]

I don't use any treatment yet but from what I've read, I find the following claim very odd:

"Once you stop using Propecia or Rogain, all the hair you have retained will fall in a matter of months"

This seems very strange to me. If Propecia is keeping the follicles in a healthy state for a matter of 5 years, why would they all suddenly die when you stop? In my mind, what should happen is that you should just carry on from where you stopped and your hair should start falling again, but you shouldn't end up where you would have been if you hadn't been using any treatment for those 5 years.

Does this make any sense?

 

[juststarting]

Yes. But realize those hairs are constantly growing more and more DHT receptors.

Also remember, the patients returned to their baseline from 5 years ago within the course of 1year. So they still were able to maintain what was already not damaged

 

[too bald too furious]

I don't use any treatment yet but from what I've read, I find the following claim very odd:

"Once you stop using Propecia or Rogain, all the hair you have retained will fall in a matter of months"

This seems very strange to me. If Propecia is keeping the follicles in a healthy state for a matter of 5 years, why would they all suddenly die when you stop? In my mind, what should happen is that you should just carry on from where you stopped and your hair should start falling again, but you shouldn't end up where you would have been if you hadn't been using any treatment for those 5 years.

Does this make any sense?

There has been a debate on this issue by experts for quite some time now.

However the clinical trials show that all gains made will be lost within 1 year of quitting Finasteride.

Sad but true.

 

[crisis]

let me get this straight...

if i was to start taking finasteride now for 5 years then stopped. one year after stopping i would be back to how i am now or how i would have been after 5 years of not taking finasteride?

 

[juststarting]

let me get this straight...

if i was to start taking finasteride now for 5 years then stopped. one year after stopping i would be back to how i am now or how i would have been after 5 years of not taking finasteride?

All that is known is that within 1yr of stopping finasteride, users were back to their point of starting finasteride. It is not known whether they kept the rapid decline. Remember, finasteride protects the follicles that are DHT sensitive. So if your other follicles are growing DHT receptors during the 5yrs, they will be lost when you stop finasteride too.

 

[Bryan]

I don't use any treatment yet but from what I've read, I find the following claim very odd:

"Once you stop using Propecia or Rogain, all the hair you have retained will fall in a matter of months"

This seems very strange to me.

I find it strange that YOU find that strange!

If Propecia is keeping the follicles in a healthy state for a matter of 5 years, why would they all suddenly die when you stop?

I want to point out a few things to you:

1) When you start taking finasteride, you tend to reach a plateau of results after approximately 1 year or so. I know that there's been a certain amount of controversy with that number, with some people saying that a little additional thickening happens during the second year. But balancing that is the fact that average haircounts _definitely_ peaked at 1 year in the original large Propecia trial, and began a very slow decline from that point on. So anyway, if the maximum point of hair growth is generally reached after about a year and what you get after that is mostly just maintenance, why is it so hard for you to believe that it also takes only a year to LOSE what you gained, if you stop taking it?? Isn't that only reasonable and logical? In other words, it's a year UP, and a year DOWN...

2) Keep in mind that in the study group that was switched over from the active drug (finasteride) during the first year to the placebo during the second year, at the end of that second year their haircounts had indeed dropped below their original starting baseline count, but they were still AHEAD of the group that had never received finasteride at all during the entire trial!

3) To the best of my knowledge, there's never been a trial where test subjects who had been on finasteride for a really LONG period of time (5 years or longer) were then withdrawn from the drug. Therefore, it's still fairly speculative to say how their final haircounts would compare, say, to subjects who had never gotten the drug at all, or how fast their decline would be after the withdrawal.

In my mind, what should happen is that you should just carry on from where you stopped and your hair should start falling again, but you shouldn't end up where you would have been if you hadn't been using any treatment for those 5 years.

As I pointed out in (3) above, I'm unaware of any real scientific evidence to answer that question definitively, so I think it's just a matter for speculation. Merck's statement was just based on the trial where finasteride users were switched to placebo after the first year.

Bryan

 

[hairschmair]

you guys don't find it strange?? okay, I will draw a graph to illustrate my point and post it.

brb

 

[hairschmair]

okay, first of all apologies for the poorly drawn graph. Did it in MS Paint

okay, so the way I would think the drug would work is indicated by the red line. You start taking it, you see some improvement, then it plateaus, then when you stop, you start losing hair at some rate (perhaps a bit faster than the rate when you started since you're older).

Now, if you take what people on here + experts say, word for word, what actually happens is depicted by the blue graph. As soon as you stop treatment, you will lose all hair needed to "catch up" to the state you would have been if you hadn't taken any drugs (see dotted blue line).

Thoughts?

PS: y axis is hair and x axis is time obviously.

 

[Guest]

Good morning/afternoon/evening(delete as applicable),

In relation to the discussion in this thread, I have a couple of questions for you lovely Hair Doyens.

I will aid my question with a hypothetical example:

Jim has been taking finasteride for 5 years and has seen some regrowth and full maintenance. Being a daft f****r, Jim decides to stop taking Finasteride because he is thinks his hair will be be OK without it.

Now we will get in a Time Machine and go back 5 years to the time when Jim first noticed some thinning of his hair. This time Jim takes it on the chin a decides to not use any Finasteride or other male pattern baldness treatments.

5 years without Finasteride and several thinning hair cycles pass.....

Jim is now a Norwood 6/7 and a bit demoralised.

We now know that Jim is a good responder to Finasteride.

Now we go back in time again to the point when Jim first started thinning and this time he takes his Finasteride for 5 years and is back at the same position he was in with full maintenance after 5 years. Once again silly Jim decides to stop taking Finasteride.

Questions:

Do you think he will be Norwood 6/7 in around a year?

Will he maybe only go through one or two hair cycles where the hair thins dramatically each time instead of gradually over 5 years of cycling?

Do you think his shed rate will be massive (i.e 300+ a day)?



I find this subject and the wonders of modern medicine fascinating.

Cheers

Neil

 

[juststarting]

Come on Neil. Admit it. You're "the friend Jim" in your question.

 

[Guest]

Come on Neil. Admit it. You're "the friend Jim" in your question.

Ha!

I wouldn't be on this site if i was Jim!

I'm only thinning a bit on the hairline and right temple but everyday I look in the mirror and fear how long I have left until I've been completely 'Jimmed'.

Scary sh*t! I dont wanna be a cue ball.

 

[Guest]

Also, if i was Jim I would keep getting back into my time machine, thus keeping my hair in a Groundhog Day style.

That's it!

I've got it!

f*** all the research into shitty new topicals, drugs, lasercombs and Hair Multiplication.

We should all be researching Time Travel instead, then we can all have our hair back and keep our youth as well.

Come guys lets get over to http://www.timetraveltalk.com, I hear there is a guy over there called Bryan who knows how to build a Flux Capacitor.

"2.21 GIGAWATTS! WHAT WAS I THINKING!!!!!"

 

[Cassin]

you guys don't find it strange??

Explain what it is exactly you find so strange? Stopping a drug and losing it's benefits sounds just logical to me!

 

[hairschmair]

if you paid more attention you would realize that it's not losing the benefits that I find strange. I have explained what I find strange.

 

[The Gardener]

Perhaps people think of Propecia like they do Penicillin. You know, you take the penicillin, it addresses the problem, and then you stop taking the penicillin and you are fine from there on out.

 

[Cassin]

if you paid more attention you would realize that it's not losing the benefits that I find strange. I have explained what I find strange.

LOL

Actually you need to pay attention to what people have told you since you obviously aren't listening.

 

[hairschmair]

Ok. It is obvious from the graph I drew that I'm trying to convince everyone that 1 year of propecia will give you infinite hair for life.

I'm done with this thread.