Stem Cell Meeting on the Mesa

[brunobald]

Histogen have a history of only showing or quoting female results, lets hope that they are talking about male pattern baldness this time. Benjt did they show photos?

 

[2young2retire]

is till cant see the webcast. it keeps buffering and nth

 

[EvilLocks]

Japan's new regulations allow for conditional release of a treatment DURING phase II trials. Keep your fingers crossed Shiseido takes advantage of this... if this happens you'll soon be able to have the life you deserve

You too I'll keep them crossed but afraid to hope too much. I already have been dissapointed enough

 

[Python]

5 years... What a terrible thing. Best case scenario is they show all the details on paper and then rougue clinics are able to do this in USA. They're in Japan so they will probably do the stem cell fast track route of phase 2.

Regardless of the time, if we don't help out, it will be like 10 more years. Let's not be overly selfish and think only of ourselves, but also for future generations.

 

[hellouser]

5 years... What a terrible thing. Best case scenario is they show all the details on paper and then rougue clinics are able to do this in USA. They're in Japan so they will probably do the stem cell fast track route of phase 2.

Regardless of the time, if we don't help out, it will be like 10 more years. Let's not be overly selfish and think only of ourselves, but also for future generations.

Well said.

 

[isishearmyplea]

5 years... What a terrible thing. Best case scenario is they show all the details on paper and then rougue clinics are able to do this in USA. They're in Japan so they will probably do the stem cell fast track route of phase 2.

Regardless of the time, if we don't help out, it will be like 10 more years. Let's not be overly selfish and think only of ourselves, but also for future generations.

:salut:

 

[2young2retire]

benjt wgere they any histogen slides?

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benjt?

 

[Muzzle]

Regardless of the time, if we don't help out, it will be like 10 more years. Let's not be overly selfish and think only of ourselves, but also for future generations.

You are very optimistic

I know some doctors who do not expect a cure for hair loss for at least 20-25 years.

 

[EvilLocks]

You are very optimistic

I know some doctors who do not expect a cure for hair loss for at least 20-25 years.

thats just wonderful... but how on earth can they make such an estimate? 20-25 yrs is a very long time, it should really not take that long

 

[Python]

You are very optimistic

I know some doctors who do not expect a cure for hair loss for at least 20-25 years.

20-25 years huh, have you lost your mind? I sure hope you did lol.

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thats just wonderful... but how on earth can they make such an estimate? 20-25 yrs is a very long time, it should really not take that long

You're right, no one can estimate that far ahead, specially with the biotechs.

 

[Muzzle]

You're right, no one can estimate that far ahead, specially with the biotechs.

I understand that people have high expectations from stem cell treatment, experiments, trials..

But unfortunately the only solution for baldness is hair cloning and scientists are at the very beginning of this treatment.

 

[Future_HT_Doc]

Ben,

Any chance you can share any of the Histogen specifics? It seems like a dramatic result with only a single treatment, and it's surprising they would struggle with funding sitting on these results!

I also think more research into the WNT issue is critical. Like a few others mentioned, any injectable solution containing WNT promoting growth factors could be troublesome (approval wise). These are highly, highly potent growth agents and the fear is creating or promoting "unwanted growth/cell differentiation" - i.e. neoplasm - with injections.

This actually brings up a pretty important - and frustrating - aspect of hair growth treatments in general. Healthy hair follicle function involves the rapid division of several important cell lines - namely DP cells, matrix cells, and bulge stem cells. However introducing an agent with the capability of promoting desired rapid cell growth also creates the potential for unwanted and undesired rapid call growth. The medical definition of unregulated, rapid cell growth is, unfortunately, neoplastic/malignant growth/cancer. I also think it is helpful to look at it from the role of chemotherapy agents; chemo treats cancer because it attacks rapidly dividing cells. Natural rapidly dividing cells include bone marrow cells, stomach epithelial cells, AND hair follicles. This is why side effects of chemo include nausea, immunosuppression, and alopecia. Finding a treatment that doesn't induce non-specific cell growth is key; this is why I worry about any solution involving injectable solutions of this nature.

 

[benjt]

Sorry, I only wrote down the most interesting statements (for me) and have nothing else. On their website, however, they said they would make the presentation available some time after the meeting, but some things that were said on the audio track weren't contained in the slides.

In the meantime, I googled a bit and it seems that HSC contains Wnt7, so Wnt7 would be injected directly into the scalp. Question now is a) how much Wnt7 HSC contains, b) how the safety profile of Wnt7 in isolation is, and c) whether it is 100% safe to use if you don't have any "bad rapidly growing cells" there, i.e., no cells that could evolve into cancer when Wnt7 is applied. In other words, that Wnt7 doesn't trigger initial malicious growth. From my layman's understanding, this would mean that HSC could be quite safe for young people (with stable DNA and no malicious growth), and less safe for older people.

Any news from RepliCel?

 

[EvilLocks]

I understand that people have high expectations from stem cell treatment, experiments, trials..

But unfortunately the only solution for baldness is hair cloning and scientists are at the very beginning of this treatment.

How do you know it's the only treatment? Are you a scientist? There are several promising treatments on the horizon and although we have no guarantee they will succeed or when they will be available, hair cloning isn't the only solution. I've also heard 10-15 years for hair cloning but I don't know who is your sources. And I really really don't understand why it should take 20+ years to develop something like that. Some years yes of course, but more than two decades, when we are in 2014? I really don't understand. Let's all hope you are wrong.

 

[2young2retire]

interesting times.

replicel to present at biojapan 15th-17th october.

read below.

http://www.replicel.com/replicel-to...update-at-biojapan-2014-world-business-forum/

eventually we ll have some info from shiseido part about rch-01....

 

[Future_HT_Doc]

Ben,

Nothing yet.

 

[dps]

help me get this straight.

histogen = stem cell injection to scalp and rejuvenating dormant follicles.
replicell = getting donor strands cloning them and transplanting them in bald spots.

if I got it right, then it is my opinion that histogen is the better option.

 

[2bald2young]

As far as I can tell, both RepliCel's RCH and Histogen's HSC are "the cure". Histogen is more efficient (i.e. only one session for full regrowth, independent of how bald you are as it seems), but its safety profile may be not as good (Wnt risks - I still have to dig into that) and, most importantly, we don't even know when HSC will be available. Given how they don't even have a starting date for their phase 3 trials, this could be anywhere bweteen "in 6 years" and "in 15 years".

RepliCel's RCH, on the other hand, definitely has no safety problems (still need to check whether HSC has) and it is closer to actually being available. Last estimate was Q4 2019. On the other hand, you might need multiple treatments but they're currently finding out in their Phase 3 trials. In Phase 2, they managed to give 11 to 14% regrowth on average - but with a single injection, which is quite impressive. In Phase 3, they now try a 90 injection protocol. Some investment analyst said that 50% regrowth in one treatment session is realistic, so - if his info, which was before Phase 3 though - is correct, you would need at most two treatment sessions. If the 90 injection protocol turns out better than expected, RCH might be just as good as HSC in terms of regrowth.

Now I understand where all this hate for the FDA comes from...

 

[benjt]

I don't see any reason for hating on the FDA here. Histogen's HSC doesn't have a perfect safety profile and without big trials, nobody actually knows if it can cause cancer and how big the chances are. Yes, RepliCel is perfectly safe as far as we can tell, but the FDA doesn't have the capacity to determine for single treatments that they can skip trials. if they did, it would also make the process intransparent, unfair, and what if the FDA is wrong in their assessment and allows a very harmful drug on the market? No, FDA protocols, while they may suck for us, are quite good.

help me get this straight.

histogen = stem cell injection to scalp and rejuvenating dormant follicles.
replicell = getting donor strands cloning them and transplanting them in bald spots.

if I got it right, then it is my opinion that histogen is the better option.

Nope, you got it wrong. Histogen injects a compound ("HSC") whose most active ingredient is Wnt7, a pluripotent cell growth factor. It makes the cells in hair follicles, which determine a hair's length and width, regenerate. These cells are lost during Androgenetic Alopecia/male pattern baldness due to PGD2-induced apoptosis. Problem with Wnt7 is that its effects don't only stimulate the growth of good cells, but also of bad cells, aka cancer. problem is that nobody knows how big the chance to develop cancer are. It could by miniscule (e.g., below 0.1%), or it could be considerable. Nobody knows as of now. But HSC regrows a full head of hair in almost no time.

RepliCel extracts Dermal Sheath Cup cells (which determine the number of Dermal Papilla cells which produce your hair), multiplies them in a bioreactor, and injects these multiplied cells back into your scalp. You might need multiple rounds of treatment with RepliCel's RCH and each round is very expensive, but eventually you will regrow all your hair.

Long story short: Histogen's HSC is likely cheaper and more effective, but its safety profile isn't perfect and nobody knows the exact risks. RepliCel is perfectly safe, but it is quite expensive and not as effective as Histogen so you might need more treatment sessions. Both of them inject substances into your scalp: Histogen injects Wnt7, RepliCel injects your own, multiplied hair growth cells.

 

[slam1523]

Thanks for the explanation bentj, that was really helpful!