Starting Propecia too soon?

[hitmeback28]

My derm prescribed my Propecia, but I came across a post that talk about if you start it while you have full coverage but just thinning it will actually turn on receptors and speed up the balding process. Any truth to this?

 

[Bryan]

another thing is that propecia inhibits type 2 only dht by 70%, and does nothing with type 1. it increase testosterone levels by about 15% and now there is more alittle more testosterone to conver to DHT by the alpha 5 reducatse 1 enzyme, and that will increase serum DHT, which can be bad for the hair. thats just my theory, I could be wrong. I know type 2 is the main one that causes hairloss, but at the end of the day DHT is still DHT. So anything when testosterone converts to DHT with alpha 1, it can still cause hairloss in my opinion.

Propecia inhibits the type 2 enzyme by fairly close to 90%, not the 70% that you say in your first sentence above. It's a fairly common error for people to say that about "70%", because they don't understand that the DHT in blood serum comes from TWO different sources (5a-reductase type 1, and 5a-reductase type 2). People overlook the fact that when you take a Propecia tablet every day, the total drop in blood DHT is in fact about 70%, but that's just because finasteride has very little effect on the type 1 enzyme.

By the way, Happle and Hofmann (my favorite hairloss researchers of all time) did a study a few years ago with the title "Finasteride Is the Main Inhibitor of 5a-Reductase in Human Hair Follicles" (or something very close to that). They found that MK386 (Merck's experimental type 1 inhibitor) had no measurable effect on the production of DHT inside human hair follicles, but finasteride was able to squelch its production almost completely. That's how we know that finasteride (but not MK386) is far more effective for fighting male pattern baldness, in both humans and stumptailed macaques.

 

[Bryan]

I know type 1 isn't found in the hair follicles, but the 30% left in serum can still circulate as mentioned, and still cause hairloss.

Dr. Proctor used to spend years on alt.baldspot explaining how DHT in the blood didn't have much of an effect on hair follicles; in other words, DHT is less of an endocrine hormone than an autocrine or paracrine hormone. It has much more of an effect where it's actually produced, rather than where it travels long distances in the body. Why is that? One reason is that it doesn't last very long in the blood stream; it's processed and eliminated fairly rapidly in the blood.

 

[wstef]

Is it true about the 15% increase in testosterone?

I can understand how testosterone will increase (since it's not binding to form DHT) but 15% is quite a big increase, isn't it?

 

[Bryan]

Is it true about the 15% increase in testosterone?

Yes, although that might be a _slight_ exaggeration.

I can understand how testosterone will increase (since it's not binding to form DHT) but 15% is quite a big increase, isn't it?

I think it's a common misconception that a lot of people have on why testosterone increases when you take finasteride or dutasteride: it's not simply that testosterone "isn't binding to form DHT", it's because the body is actually UPREGULATING the production of testosterone! The body sees much less DHT being produced (because of the finasteride), so it sends the chemical signals to the testes that tell them to start making more testosterone.

 

[wstef]

Interesting.

I posted a while ago - more of a question - whether taking finasteride could help with muscle development.

I don't really work out but I cycle a lot. I realised recently that my muscle definition has became better in my legs, despite not changing anything (other than finasteride). Possible positive side effect?

 

[Beingbaldsucksass]

The bottom line propecia work, you should combine it with rogaine to stabilized the shedding, people here talking crap

 

[nikemata]

This will work but it depends how your body metabolizes it.

 

[WarLord]

my hairloss accelareted on finasteride. I lost more hair than beforeI was on finasteride. I have been on for 14 months now. no improvement at all.


another thing is that propecia inhibits type 2 only dht by 70%, and does nothing with type 1. it increase testosterone levels by about 15% and now there is more alittle more testosterone to conver to DHT by the alpha 5 reducatse 1 enzyme, and that will increase serum DHT, which can be bad for the hair. thats just my theory, I could be wrong. I know type 2 is the main one that causes hairloss, but at the end of the day DHT is still DHT. So anything when testosterone converts to DHT with alpha 1, it can still cause hairloss in my opinion.

so you basically someone takes propecia and reduces the surum levels by 70%. there is still 30% serum DHT left in the body. when the testosterone increases by about 15% while on propecia more will bind with the alpha 1 reductase more DHT will be produced. so we can add to the 30% left and bring it to maybe even 40 or 50% in the body that can do alot of damage still. basically it defeats the purpose of propecia. Call me stupid but I am starting to think all the studies and stuff on propecia working are bogus to a degree. now a days its hard believing anything. especially the FDA. now everything is about money. the ones that do claim drastic reversal and show pictures, can easily use toppik and claim its finasteride. Im sure merck or even the makers of minoxidil have people make accounts and just fool people.

when a drug like dutasteride thats wipes out DHT still doesn't work as great as some people claim they still lost alot of ground on dutasteride and made everything worse as well, then a drug like propecia stands no chance.

What is your bloodwork? Total testosterone, DHT, free testosterone? I believe that people, who haven't been successful with finasteride, are often hyperandrogenic. If they lower their DHT by 70%, they will only get on the level of an average guy, and their blood testosterone will explode like in body-builders on steroids. There was a case of a young man, who had total testosterone almost 1000 ng/dl and was not successful in the long-term. Otherwise a further loss of hair on finasteride is not possible, because your DHT levels are reduced on the level of pre-pubescent children.

 

[abcdefg]

That increase above your normal testosterone cant be good for your hair long term and could easily explain why men still slowly lose hair on propecia. I also question the role of androgen receptors such as the number of them and how they are distributed. The researchers at intrepid that partnered with cosmo for CB 03 01 say that balding men have much higher expression of androgen receptors which leads me to believe that receptors do have some impact on hair loss. So it seems if propecia caused more receptors that would cause your hair to be more sensitive to androgens than it was originally even if you lowered DHT a lot who can say it all ends up canceling out perfectly? It certainly makes sense in rare cases it could speed up hair loss also remembering merk never really studied men with very minor frontal loss taking propecia it was mainly older men and men with more severe hair loss.
I have heard some say receptors do not really matter but these researchers are saying there is over expression of them compared to non balding men which I guess goes in the category of many things such as pgd 2 but it seems they do factor in maybe in important ways if they are pointing this out? I dont know molecular biology but the molecules of androgens must interact with the hair root somehow so if its receptors it seems more of them is not a good thing for speed of loss.

http://intrepidthera.com/development-pipeline/cb-03-01-for-alopecia/
"Hair loss is known to be dependent on dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which is converted from testosterone by the enzyme 5-alpha-reductase. In addition, there is over-expression of androgen receptors in balding scalps compared with non-balding scalps."