Starting Finasteride - Some Questions

alekgn

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Hello all,

After a very long time contemplating using finasteride, I've decided to make a hard decision and get on it (I've gotten a prescription for it). In terms of my hair loss, I haven't seen any noticeable recession of the hairline when I've compared it to about a year ago (I first started noticing it the summer before I turned 18; probably started even earlier; correction: 9 months). A year ago (correction: 9 months), I had something between a Norwood 1.5-2. As of right now, I still have something between a Norwood 1.5-2. In fact, in one of my earlier postings on this website under a different account (I lost that account's information) people thought I was a NW1 with BDD.

In terms of its shape, the hairline is about one-index finger above the top wrinkle of the forehead (I believe NW0 and NW1s start right at the top wrinkle), and has a straight middle with two sharp triangle wedges at the temples. The temporal triangles are surprisingly intact.

Even though the hairline hasn't shown more visible recession, and my hair density is still good, and my crown is nowhere near thinning (You couldn't see scalp if you tried there), I think it's just a matter of time. Some forms of male pattern baldness are very gradual and can take decades, while others are very rapid and can take months. I might fall into the former category, but don't want to wait and find out. Or it could become rapid next year. I don't want to experiment with that. I can't seem to help but take several pictures every day, looking for even the most minute differences. It's almost an illness. I've read postings from several members on here who kept putting it off and then got on finasteride later with regret for not starting earlier. I think the whole regret-not-starting-earlier argument seals the deal for me.

I'm going to be getting my actual prescription starting the following week, so I have some questions for veterans and long-term finasteride users on here:

(1) What is the recommended starting dosage? Is 1mg a good start point, or should I start from 0.25mg or 0.5mg and gradually increase the dosage to 1mg or above?

(2) If I begin to notice sexual side effects (ED, watery semen, etc.), should I stop finasteride altogether and never come back to it, or should I suspend my usage for some amount of time and retry using it with a lower dosage?

(3) Are side effects inevitable over usage of finasteride for a long period of time (>2 years)?

(4) Are some supposed "side effects" reported on here, such as p**rn star c**** becoming micropenises and other seemingly outlandish ones (minoxidil aging you 20 years) psychologically induced out of fear that finasteride or other products are horrible drugs (in medicine, this is referred to as the nocebo effect) or do some of them hold weight?

(5) Other than using Nizoral/Ketocanoazle to reduce inflammation in the scalp (which I've been using for almost a year), and minoxidil ( I haven't made a decision with minoxidil yet since I don't have horrible bald patches), are there any other products or dietary supplements that are recommended (I think my current shampoo has Saw Palmetto in it; maybe that's playing a role)?

(6) As a person who will be very busy at university and will have several other responsibilities, how often should I check to see if finasteride is actually working or I need to go on something more extreme (Dutasteride or the like)? I won't have hours to spend on this site, and would mostly be a person who takes this pill and moves on with the rest of their day.

(7) Am I just insane, as I've been told by some other members of this forum (though not in an offensive way)?


Pictures below, the first the hairline from about almost a year ago (9 months) (the earliest I could find anyway), and the second a picture I took of it a few days ago:
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IMG_20180630_144624758.jpg


By the way, I know the pictures are blurry. That's the best I can get with the technology I have. I would get bettter ones if I had the money to afford a good quality camera or a phone with one. Also, those are the only areas where any recession is noticeable.
 

Retinoid

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I would start on .25mg of Finasteride per day and move to .5mg/day after a few weeks.

If you notice sexual issues continue with it. You also should not be focused on your hair and potential side effects thru the process.

There is no mechanism of Finasteride shrinking a fully grown penis. Penises require DHT to grow but they do not require DHT to stay the same size.
 

abcdefg

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I dont see why you would take the drug for no real reason just in case. It goes pretty slow even if it goes fast you have plenty of time once some thinning or small spot shows up. Once its male pattern baldness for absolutely sure then you start the drugs.
I would just watch it, and wait for something more obvious before doing anything.
 

alekgn

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I dont see why you would take the drug for no real reason just in case. It goes pretty slow even if it goes fast you have plenty of time once some thinning or small spot shows up. Once its male pattern baldness for absolutely sure then you start the drugs.
I would just watch it, and wait for something more obvious before doing anything.

So just keep it on hand in case? How could the pattern in my hairline be anything else than early male pattern baldness? The very middle part that's curved is just an abnormality, but I don't see how the wedges could be anything else? The only possibility I could see for that was possible receding during puberty, which is especially common among Caucasian males (I'm Caucasian). What's driving me crazy, though I don't consider negative, is the fact that the hairline doesn't look like it has changed at all, but has that bizarre looking pattern. I wish I had a record of my hairline when I was a child, but I don't.

What would you consider something more obvious? Noticeable density drops? A bald temple patch gets larger? Crown begins to go? God, why is male pattern baldness so inconsistent.
 

dr75

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I would start on .25mg of Finasteride per day and move to .5mg/day after a few weeks.

If you notice sexual issues continue with it. You also should not be focused on your hair and potential side effects thru the process.

There is no mechanism of Finasteride shrinking a fully grown penis. Penises require DHT to grow but they do not require DHT to stay the same size.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29893293
 

dr75

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Were the rats developing or fully grown?
Thirty male SHRs and 30 male Wistar–Kyoto rats (3 months old and 243–289 g body weight) were used.
This is from an another unrelated article
"the Wistar Kyoto (WKY) rat, during early adolescence (~postnatal day 30) and mid-adolescence (~postnatal day 40)"
 

alekgn

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Thirty male SHRs and 30 male Wistar–Kyoto rats (3 months old and 243–289 g body weight) were used.
This is from an another unrelated article
"the Wistar Kyoto (WKY) rat, during early adolescence (~postnatal day 30) and mid-adolescence (~postnatal day 40)"
What about a study from fully grown rats (not developing)? For reference, I think my dick peaked out about 2 years ago lmao. I'm doubtful I'm gonna wake up with a Ron Jeremy tomorrow. Not complaining though, it's big enough.
 

dr75

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What about a study from fully grown rats (not developing)? For reference, I think my dick peaked out about 2 years ago lmao. I'm doubtful I'm gonna wake up with a Ron Jeremy tomorrow. Not complaining though, it's big enough.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3733029/figure/F1/

3 months old rats is considered young adults. These results do not necessarily translate into humans but they are all we have right now .

"The present study used the rat as an animal model, which is a limitation because the results may not reflect what occurs in other species. This model is widely used because it has been shown in different clinical situations that rat penile morphology is altered in a similar manner as in humans.[9],[13],[33],[44] However, the results obtained in this model should not be directly translated to men."

Thus, both 5AR inhibitors negatively affected the corpus cavernosum morphology in the BPH model.

The possibility of recovering normal penile morphology after discontinuing these drugs and whether either of the drugs is associated with a faster or more complete return to a normal penile morphology remains unknown. Further, the dose of these drugs varies, especially for patients taking androgenic alopecia treatment; thus, future studies comparing different doses will be important.
 

alekgn

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3733029/figure/F1/

3 months old rats is considered young adults. These results do not necessarily translate into humans but they are all we have right now .

Damn. Weaker erections are one thing, but penile atrophy...

Was the dosage at all proportional to the rat's body mass what a normal adult male would ingest in a 1mg tablet? An overdosage of anything will cause severe side effects? I couldn't find a metric for the dosages to the original article.
 

Retinoid

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Damn. Weaker erections are one thing, but penile atrophy...

Was the dosage at all proportional to the rat's body mass what a normal adult male would ingest in a 1mg tablet? An overdosage of anything will cause severe side effects? I couldn't find a metric for the dosages to the original article.

Disregard this study, it is hogwash. The only thing that will atrophy a penis is it never getting fully hard for a long time. Applying topical DHT after puberty to the penis directly will not increase penis size and reducing DHT will not decrease penis size.
 

alekgn

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Disregard this study, it is hogwash. The only thing that will atrophy a penis is it never getting fully hard for a long time. Applying topical DHT after puberty to the penis directly will not increase penis size and reducing DHT will not decrease penis size.

I thought finasteride weakened erections, so if the penis can never get fully hard, then it would seem that penile atrophy would be inevitable. Also, if one was to not have sex or jerk off or look at sexually arousing pictures, or any other form of getting hard, would that have the same effect with and without finasteride? On another note, I know that rats =/= humans, but they are similar enough that they are generally used as replacements for humans (for obvious ethical reasons) when analyzing the effects of particular substances.
 

Retinoid

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I thought finasteride weakened erections, so if the penis can never get fully hard, then it would seem that penile atrophy would be inevitable. Also, if one was to not have sex or jerk off or look at sexually arousing pictures, or any other form of getting hard, would that have the same effect with and without finasteride?

If you cannot get hard on Finasteride then the atrophy is from the lack of ability to get hard, not 5AR2/3 inhibition. We are talking about not being able to get hard for a long time, like a year. I rarely come across people not being able to get hard from Finasteride. I am taking it and never had a change other than a possible increase in sex drive.
 

alekgn

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If you cannot get hard on Finasteride then the atrophy is from the lack of ability to get hard, not 5AR2/3 inhibition. We are talking about not being able to get hard for a long time, like a year. I rarely come across people not being able to get hard from Finasteride. I am taking it and never had a change other than a possible increase in sex drive.

I believe you, but why would a reduction in DHT INCREASE sex drive? Have you improved other areas of your life since taking finasteride, like diet, exercise, sleep, stress reduction, etc.
 

Retinoid

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I believe you, but why would a reduction in DHT INCREASE sex drive? Have you improved other areas of your life since taking finasteride, like diet, exercise, sleep, stress reduction, etc.

Possibly due to a previous imbalance of DHT to Testosterone. As people get older the ratio of DHT:Testosterone increases and so does prostate issues and hair issues (which are tissues that DHT acts on). I am not claiming for sure my sex drive increased. But it has not decreased.
 

alekgn

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Possibly due to a previous imbalance of DHT to Testosterone. As people get older the ratio of DHT:Testosterone increases and so does prostate issues and hair issues (which are tissues that DHT acts on). I am not claiming for sure my sex drive increased. But it has not decreased.

So I reckon you're not a younger guy then? (No offense intended)
 

joeblack2017

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From what I have experience, just don't think too much about the sides. You may experience it in the first few days but eventually it all goes away once your body has adjusted to its new dht levels (well at least that's what happened for me). Try 1mg per day first, then after a month or two, switch it up to 1.25mg, that's how I take it along with minoxidil. After 5 months of sticking to the routine and not thinking about much of the sides, I had major results.

You can check my story here if you like: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...s-results-bringing-my-confidence-back.114629/
 
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