spironolactone for crazy people?

[striker9]

Hi, someone in the forum recommended me this website: http://genhair.com/

There you get:
- finasteride
- minoxidil
- spironolactone
- flutamide

Finasteride and Minoxidil are FDA aproved.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flutamide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flutamide#Side_effects

Flutamide i think it's fine. Or not?


But if you go to Spironolactone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spironolac ... rt_failure

- increase in carcinogenesis
- Spironolactone is associated with an increased risk of bleeding from the stomach and duodenum

 

[Rework24]

I tried genhairs minoxidil GAFF - which was a pile of turd. Left my hair greasy after application and undid all the gains I made.

Says that Flutamide fucks your liver but it didn't do any damage to me.

When it comes to choosing your treatment(s) you need to decided what level of risk your comfortable with. For me I was willing to try anything and then worry bout side effects as when they occured.

 

[Fundi]

Umm...you're not planning on eating the cream are you? :innocent:

 

[decro435]

Yes this is for oral spironolactone which is completely different to using topical.

 

[striker9]

Oh i see

But isn't the topical systematical absorbed doing the same has the pill?

And anyone know what better? flutamide or spironolactone? In terms of cleaning dht and with less side effects?

 

[rusty_y2k2]

for what it's worth i've seen people report positively on flutamide topicals, can't say i've ever seen much positive about topical spironolactone....

 

[striker9]

So should flutamide be a good option?

 

[striker9]

anyone?

 

[Rework24]

only flutamide available that i know of is genhair's.
I personally didnt do well on it but others have suggested positive results in combination with other treatments

 

[diffuse propecia]

The amount that gets into your blood is very small if any, and given that the half-life is only 6 minutes it would seem that there is no reason to worry. Even if you take an oral dose it probably would not cause bleeding, these are just side-effects that could happen to a small percentage of people. I know people who have used oral aldactone for reasons other than male pattern baldness and they were just fine.

 

[Rework24]

when i said i didn't do well, what i meant was whatever vehicle genhair use didn't work for me, flutamide in a gel vehicle from sinere was excellent for me. I didnt have any side effects at all.

I am reasonably confident about trying any topical formula but I don't do pills.

 

[Bryan]

The amount that gets into your blood is very small if any, and given that the half-life is only 6 minutes it would seem that there is no reason to worry.

The PDR (Physician's Desk Reference) states that the half-life for spironolactone is about 1.4 hours. The half-lives of spironolactone metabolites (which apparently provide a significant amount of its clinical efficacy) are even longer:

7-a-(thiomethyl) spirolactone (TMS): 13.8 hours
6-b-hydroxy-7-a-(thiomethyl) spirolactone (HTMS): 15.0 hours
canrenone: 16.5 hours

 

[striker9]

"3) No, washing your skin does NOT make it produce more sebum. "

wow this is for real?

Rework24, so the other flutamide worked and this didn't worked?

I only see flutamide from genhair, so there aren't any good topical anti-dht avaiable yet?

 

[diffuse propecia]

The amount that gets into your blood is very small if any, and given that the half-life is only 6 minutes it would seem that there is no reason to worry.

The PDR (Physician's Desk Reference) states that the half-life for spironolactone is about 1.4 hours. The half-lives of spironolactone metabolites (which apparently provide a significant amount of its clinical efficacy) are even longer:

7-a-(thiomethyl) spirolactone (TMS): 13.8 hours
6-b-hydroxy-7-a-(thiomethyl) spirolactone (HTMS): 15.0 hours
canrenone: 16.5 hours

I meant 10 minutes but that is likely to be wrong, upon further research you seem to be right, I guess this is the downside of using a source of information that anybody can edit.

 

[Bryan]

"3) No, washing your skin does NOT make it produce more sebum. "

wow this is for real?

Yes. It was proven more than 50 years ago by a famous dermatologist that washing doesn't stimulate the skin to produce sebum, but the idea continues to this very day as a popular Urban Myth. Below is a passage from a medical journal which explains the basic principles involved (the italics are in the original paper):

"Sebum secretion and sebaceous lipids." - published in Dermatologic Clinics, Vol. 1, No. 3, July 1983.

"... These observations gave rise to a long-lived fallacy (1927-1957) that was posthumously christened the 'feedback theory' by Kligman and Shelley (23). The idea was that sebaceous glands secrete only when necessary to replenish lipid that has been wiped or washed away. Nothing known about the physiology of sebaceous glands gives any theoretical support to this concept, and it has been thoroughly disproved experimentally (23). Sebum is secreted continuously. The reason that lipid levels eventually cease to increase apparently is that the skin can hold only a certain amount of lipid in its crevices, and the rest tends to flow away from sites of high sebum production (23)."

23) Kligman, A. M., and Shelley, W. B.: "An Investigation of the Biology of the Human Sebaceous Gland". Journal of Investigative Dermatology, 30:99-124, 1958.

 

[Bryan]

I meant 10 minutes but that is likely to be wrong, upon further research you seem to be right, I guess this is the downside of using a source of information that anybody can edit.

Yep. BTW, used copies of the PDR are easily available at second-hand book stores for a modest amount of money, and they are a valuable resource. I have one sitting here next to the computer, and I've gotten a lot of use from it over the years!

 

[diffuse propecia]

I meant 10 minutes but that is likely to be wrong, upon further research you seem to be right, I guess this is the downside of using a source of information that anybody can edit.

Yep. BTW, used copies of the PDR are easily available at second-hand book stores for a modest amount of money, and they are a valuable resource. I have one sitting here next to the computer, and I've gotten a lot of use from it over the years!

I think I may pick one up for uni, sounds very useful, thanks.

 

[striker9]

Bryan great answer, so many myths! Even with a shampoo that doesn't happen? incredible!

But isn't dht in the hair follicle correlated with the sebum?




Rework24, so the other flutamide worked and this didn't worked?

I only see flutamide from genhair, so there aren't any good topical anti-dht avaiable yet?

 

[Bryan]

Bryan great answer, so many myths! Even with a shampoo that doesn't happen? incredible!

No, not even with shampoos!

Kligman (the same Doctor who did that original 1958 study cited previously) and one of his colleagues also did a set of careful experiments with shampoos in 1983. One thing they did was measure sebum secretion on the scalp during periods of daily shampooing, and periods of no shampooing AT ALL for about a month. The way they measured the sebum was to rinse all the lipid off the scalp with ether, then let the ether evaporate, leaving behind all the lipids. They found that there was no difference in the daily lipid production between the group that shampooed daily, and the group that didn't shampoo at all.

But isn't dht in the hair follicle correlated with the sebum?

I'm not sure what you mean. The sebaceous glands themselves contain 5a-reductase, which generates DHT.

 

[striker9]

Brian one more time, great answer.

What a myth!!

I meant, the sebaceous glands themselves contain 5a-reductase.
There's any difference in fighting dht if we wash daily or weekly?



Rework24, so the other flutamide worked and this didn't worked?

I only see flutamide from genhair, so there aren't any good topical anti-dht avaiable yet?