So say you were taking Saw Palmetto....

[bombscience]

...for about 5 months, and then about 4 weeks ago you stopped.

Suddenly you were losing more hair then ever!!!

Would you start Saw P again??

 

[Cassin]

...for about 5 months, and then about 4 weeks ago you stopped.

Suddenly you were losing more hair then ever!!!

Would you start Saw P again??

nope

 

[Stingray]

Funny you should mention this mr. b. I was in the same boat as you. I was on saw palmetto for about 4 months, and stopped cuz i ran out. I didn't think anything of it, and all of a sudden after a couple weeks I started to shed like crazy. I got back on the stuff after 2 months and in one month things got back down to normal. It might be a fluke, but I'll pay the 10 bucks for 3 months of peace of mind.

Try getting back on it to see what happens.

 

[HairFreak]

Funny you should mention this mr. b. I was in the same boat as you. I was on saw palmetto for about 4 months, and stopped cuz i ran out. I didn't think anything of it, and all of a sudden after a couple weeks I started to shed like crazy. I got back on the stuff after 2 months and in one month things got back down to normal. It might be a fluke, but I'll pay the 10 bucks for 3 months of peace of mind.

Try getting back on it to see what happens.

I totally agree. I never miss a day even thought I have no clue if it does anyting at all. However that (cheap peace of mind really means a lot to me.

 

[bombscience]

yeah it's going back into my routine.... damn this hairloss... I really dont get what i'm doing wrong... my hair is very unhealthy...

 

[HairlossTalk]

Saw Palmetto does not work to treat Male Pattern Baldness.

Believe what you want. Enjoy the shedding :roll:

Please don't say you don't know whats wrong.

We all know SP causes shedding.

We all know that SP affects hormones.

We all know that constantly modulating your hormones will cause fluctuations in the shedding and hair loss, etc.

We have no reason to believe SP actually affects hormones to stop hair loss, however. People have tried.

You stopped taking a strong hormonal modulator.

Your hormones went out of whack again.

Your hair responded by going out of whack.

Go back on it and kick them back out of whack again

With no peace of mind that its doing you any good.

Good luck.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[bombscience]

You make a good point HairLossTalk.com about constantly screwing with your hormones...

..but..

here are some statements we dont know are true:


We all know SP causes shedding.

Your hormones went out of whack again.

Your hair responded by going out of whack.


I also find it contradictory that you're blaming my hair shed on a fluctuation in my hormones when stopping saw p, but you haven't considered that less hair was lost while on saw p becuase of the fluctuation in hormones that it caused.


p.s. I think I have a pretty solid core regimen big-3 + spironolactone with a dose of folligen. That's why i dont know what i'm doing wrong.

 

[HairlossTalk]

here are some statements we dont know are true: We all know SP causes shedding.

I know that to be true because ive run this site for 5 years and heard nothing but that reported by all my users, except for XL. Including myself. I've heard no reports but shedding reports, ever, and the scientists have miserably failed to produce a SINGLE study to show that saw palmetto works for hair loss, even though you can literally find over 100 studies that it works for prostate enlargement issues.

Your hormones went out of whack again.

We know this to be true because it is a scientifically proven fact that SP modulates the endocrine system something fierce. So we do know this.

Your hair responded by going out of whack.

Its a proven fact that anytime you screw with your regimen, something is going to get kicked off kilter, and its basic logic that if you combine this with the aforementioned extreme endocrine change, we have a causative effectual relationship happening.

I also find it contradictory that you're blaming my hair shed on a fluctuation in my hormones when stopping saw p, but you haven't considered that less hair was lost while on saw p becuase of the fluctuation in hormones that it caused.

Without someone monitoring your hair counts, and your constant additions and removals of ingredients from your regimen, you can't know a damn thing about what is responsible for your hairs status. All is aid was removing a hormonal modulator kicks your hormones off kilter and thats well known to affect hair. Nothing contradictory about that. It requires a hell of a lot more proof to say that something is responsible for keeping or maintaining hair, than it does to say something affects hormone balance. Thats the point.

I think I have a pretty solid core regimen big-3 + spironolactone with a dose of folligen. That's why i dont know what i'm doing wrong.

You're taking something that is known to cause shedding by tons and tons of reports from users, and has zero documented reports of success in anyone on the entire face of the planet. 1+1 ...

Its your head. Do what you want. Throughout history, people have always believed what they want to believe even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Ignore science. Your choice. The world is flat. Lightening is really god getting angry. If she floats then she is not a witch like we thought... Sorry if i sound like a dick, but I am one at this point. Im tired of trying to educate people and having them blatantly tell me they don't care about "all that junk" cuz they wanna do what they wanna do... and then they come here and fill up the forums with questions about their completely unscientific regimens, as if its even possible to answer a question about something that has zero clinical data about it.

Even with all its clinical data, we could barely answer such a question about Propecia, yet somehow someone is supposed to give advice on something never even studied for hair loss yet?

HairLossTalk.com

 

[cyberprimate]

i understand your point HairLossTalk.com

but beyond the issue of SP efficience on male pattern baldness, how do you explain taking SP makes me horny? (I'm sure you'll mention a possible placebo effect)

I don't mean to be conflictual, i just try to understand and know the truth about things

 

[HairlossTalk]

Khai would you please do me a favor and go read up on Saw Palmetto and what it does in the body?

Please. Educate yourself. Everyone who reads this. Please educate yourselves before you do anything. I don't think you guys realize how important it is to know what the hell you're taking.

Saw Palmetto inhibits a form of 5 alpha reductase, that results in increased Testosterone which results in increased libido.

Its not placebo effect. Its an endocrine system modulator. Well known.

Its NOT a treatment for male pattern baldness.

It's effective in the prostate. It's not effective on the scalp. Do you know why? If not please read up on it. Please educate yourself.

Thanks

HairLossTalk.com

PS... i always use SP to make me horny. Thats the key ingredient in the mega man multivitamins I recommend to battle libido issues experienced while on Propecia. I know what it does, and I use it for that.

Imagine how all the people thinking the "herbal" weight loss drug Ephedra are feeling right about now? Im sure the "scientific minds" drove them nuts saying "dont take it!" too ...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... -fda_x.htm

 

[bombscience]

I know that to be true because ive run this site for 5 years and heard nothing but that reported by all my users, except for XL. Including myself. I've heard no reports but shedding reports, ever, and the scientists have miserably failed to produce a SINGLE study to show that saw palmetto works for hair loss, even though you can literally find over 100 studies that it works for prostate enlargement issues.

I'm not defending saw palmetto as a hair loss cure. I'm simply saying since I stopped taking it (4 weeks ago), my hair thinning has accelerated. That was my reason for this post in the first place: to get a general feeling about the people who have stopped saw palmetto. I inquired because of the reason, "saw palmetto causes shedding", that you are preaching.

Without someone monitoring your hair counts, and your constant additions and removals of ingredients from your regimen, you can't know a damn thing about what is responsible for your hairs status. All is aid was removing a hormonal modulator kicks your hormones off kilter and thats well known to affect hair. Nothing contradictory about that. It requires a hell of a lot more proof to say that something is responsible for keeping or maintaining hair, than it does to say something affects hormone balance. Thats the point.

Then why did you just mention that we *know* saw palmetto causes shedding? Besides comments from users here it's going to take a bit more proof to conclude that it is something responsible for hair loss than something that is just affecting hormone balance.

You're taking something...

I actually stopped taking saw p because of the results i've seen on this board from other users. I did add 1+1, and well, it still did alarm me when I shed more after removing saw palmetto from my regimen when I was expecting to shed less.

Its your head. Do what you want. Throughout history, people have always believed what they want to believe even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary...

Hrm. I think you're way off the mark here. I use minoxidil, finasteride, nizoral, spironolactone, and folligen religiously. I'm not ignoring the science at all. I wouldn't even use folligen if I didn't have such problems with irritation. So if playing with saw palmetto makes my regimen unscientific, so be it. I might want to watch how much in-and-out I eat while i'm at it, considering the animal fat I consume may alter my estrogen levels.

 

[wheresmyhair]

Its funny now that I state this after all the arguments I had with HairLossTalk.com about my choice to use Saw Palmetto, but I decided to drop it as I started to feel a tad wierd emotionally. I thought I'd give it a month off and I did begin to lose more hair for 2 weeks. But after more than 6 weeks off my hair is thicker and I seem to have regrown a nice lot of hair in the crown. Now this could be due to 3 months on Revivogen and the introduction of folligen to my regimen a month later. I also dropped nizoral as this just caused more hair loss in my case 6 weeks ago. So you be the judge but after a good 3 months on Saw I found no real stop in hair loss, but I was more horny than ever.
So in the end I have decided not use Saw Palmetto, but that goes for Propecia as well as I rather avoid the systematic alterations that will happen after time.
So I end up agreeing with HairLossTalk.com in the end. Although I still believe in my right to choose.

 

[Guest]

Khai would you please do me a favor and go read up on Saw Palmetto and what it does in the body?

Please. Educate yourself. Everyone who reads this. Please educate yourselves before you do anything. I don't think you guys realize how important it is to know what the hell you're taking.

Saw Palmetto inhibits a form of 5 alpha reductase, that results in increased Testosterone which results in increased libido.

Its not placebo effect. Its an endocrine system modulator. Well known.

Its NOT a treatment for male pattern baldness.

It's effective in the prostate. It's not effective on the scalp. Do you know why? If not please read up on it. Please educate yourself.

Thanks

HairLossTalk.com

PS... i always use SP to make me horny. Thats the key ingredient in the mega man multivitamins I recommend to battle libido issues experienced while on Propecia. I know what it does, and I use it for that.

Imagine how all the people thinking the "herbal" weight loss drug Ephedra are feeling right about now? Im sure the "scientific minds" drove them nuts saying "dont take it!" too ...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... -fda_x.htm

Here is a quandry. If SP increases Test and decreases DHT (which is why it is supposed to work in treating prostate conditions) then it works just like finasteride in that respect (leaving out the male pattern baldness issue).

IF that is true, how is it that SP could increase libido and finasteride be known as a libido/erection killer?

I for one would love to hear that SP jacks us libido but could find no research to support that. Frankly, I took it for years and if anything, thought it impacted me much like finasteride except that it did not grow any hair on my head at all.

Any thoughts HairLossTalk.com??

 

[Guest]

Its funny now that I state this after all the arguments I had with HairLossTalk.com about my choice to use Saw Palmetto, but I decided to drop it as I started to feel a tad wierd emotionally. I thought I'd give it a month off and I did begin to lose more hair for 2 weeks. But after more than 6 weeks off my hair is thicker and I seem to have regrown a nice lot of hair in the crown. Now this could be due to 3 months on Revivogen and the introduction of folligen to my regimen a month later. I also dropped nizoral as this just caused more hair loss in my case 6 weeks ago. So you be the judge but after a good 3 months on Saw I found no real stop in hair loss, but I was more horny than ever.
So in the end I have decided not use Saw Palmetto, but that goes for Propecia as well as I rather avoid the systematic alterations that will happen after time.
So I end up agreeing with HairLossTalk.com in the end. Although I still believe in my right to choose.

How do you combine folligen and reviv? Are you concerned about the copper and zinc competing for absorption? See folligen website for reference on that.

 

[pop]

SP and Propecia do the same thing.
They block dht, which helps to maintain hair and
destroys libido.
It's a tough choice, but I'm going with libido.

 

[Guest]

SP and Propecia do the same thing.
They block dht, which helps to maintain hair and
destroys libido.
It's a tough choice, but I'm going with libido.

Well it APPEARS that you are correct but we certainly don't have agreement on this within this thread.

Should be easy to resolve. Take SP and measure the change in DHT levels. If DHT plummets as Test rises, it is in fact naturaly finasteride and the libido issue becomes a bit clearer, no?

 

[pop]

I never had my dht measured by a Doctor or anything.

But, I am naturally loaded with dht. Besides the hair loss,
I have vey high libido, thick beard, hands and feet sweat, become enormous when I work out in the gym for just a couple months etc.

However, when on SP my libido was gone, my beard was thinner,
hands and feet dry, and I got fatter.

 

[Guest]

I never had my dht measured by a Doctor or anything.

But, I am naturally loaded with dht. Besides the hair loss,
I have vey high libido, thick beard, hands and feet sweat, become enormous when I work out in the gym for just a couple months etc.

However, when on SP my libido was gone, my beard was thinner,
hands and feet dry, and I got fatter.

I had several of those side effects with SP.

 

[HairlossTalk]

SP and Propecia do the same thing.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!
They do not do the same thing!

Saw Palmetto INHIBITS THE FORMATION OF ONE TYPE OF DHT. THe type NOT FOUND prominently in the scalp. The type THAT IS FOUND PROMINENTLY in the prostate.

Thus the 100+ studies on SP's helpful effects on the prostate, and the 0 studies on SP's helpful effects on the scalp and hair.

They are two SIMILAR drugs with very DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT effects on the hormonal system. It is 1st grade mentality to just sit back and go "Well they both inhibit DHT therefore it must work for hair loss!". There are two types of 5 alpha reductase inhibitors. Not one.

Propecia effectively inhibits ONE TYPE.

Saw Palmetto effectively inhibits the OTHER type.

Propecia has tons and tons and tons of studies on its benefit on the type found in the scalp (go figure!).

Saw Palmetto has tons and tons of studies on its benefit on the type found in the prostate, the other type (go figure!).

Propecia is NOT VERY EFFECTIVE in the prostate (go figure!)

Saw Palmetto is NOT EFFECTIVE AT ALL in the scalp (go figure!)

HairLossTalk.com

 

[Guest]

SP and Propecia do the same thing.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!
They do not do the same thing!

Saw Palmetto INHIBITS THE FORMATION OF ONE TYPE OF DHT. THe type NOT FOUND prominently in the scalp. The type THAT IS FOUND PROMINENTLY in the prostate.

Thus the 100+ studies on SP's helpful effects on the prostate, and the 0 studies on SP's helpful effects on the scalp and hair.

Guys you need to educate yourselves more.

HairLossTalk.com

HairLossTalk.com--

You missed my point. I never said that SP was effective against male pattern baldness. I SAID that if SP dropped DHT levels and IF lower DHT levels (of any kind) were the cause of diminished libido, then it follows that SP would lower, not raise, libido and that would explain why this is oft cited here as a side effect of SP.

Certainly in my case, SP produces the EXACT same side effect profile as did finasteride.

And that is just in my case. I amke no claims beyond this.

I do not suggest that folks take SP for male pattern baldness although it works like a charm on BPH!!