Should I Use Nape Hair For My Hairline? [pics]

[matin1991]

Hi friends,

I got a hair transplant some 11 months ago (~1750 grafts, hairline), and I am overall satisfied with the result though it's - in my opinion - a little bit pluggy in the front (see attached pictures). You're welcome to let me know your opinion.



For that reason, I am going to get one more hair transplant next year to have the hairline more dense and to add grafts to my thinning crown. I asked my hair surgeon if he could use hair from my nape, just for adding density to the hairline, in order for it to look more natural as I know other doctors do this. He said that he had never done it before because it's not 100% safe to use (not resistant to DHT). So he said that it ultimately would be my call.

Questions is: Has anyone of you had a procedure done with nape hair? If so, I hope you can clarify to me the following:

1) How is it progressing with your hair where nape hair has been used? Has some of it felt out yet? Would love to see pics.
2) I wear my hair in a bun - would noticeable there be noticeable white spots where my nape hair has been extracted from?

Of course, if you know anyone else who have had nape hair transplanted, I'd also love if you could refer me to that person. Thanks a lot, looking forward to your responses!

//Matin

 

[topcat]

In my opinion you were not hair transplant candidate to begin with but that is just by looking at your after pictures and hairline. I'm also guessing you are about 26 and that could be wrong which would also matter. The comment is for the forum readers and not to make you feel bad. You didn't do anything wrong..........I think you could have been better advised.

Yes long term nape hair can fall out so could it be an option..........maybe.......... but that option could be short term and that term is unknown.

What you are seeing are dark thick caliber hairs taken from the back of your head that don't quite match the existing and surrounding hair. Putting together a hair transplant is like putting together a puzzle everything has to match (direction, angle, color, caliber) etc. The dark thick hairs will always be there. Can you camouflage there appearance by adding more hair..........maybe. The problem is you used up a good percentage of donor for what looks like a relatively low hairline and that creates an issue with keeping it all going. Average donor for most is going to be about 5000 approximately so how do you address the future?

Personally I think your hairline looks good enough to not have it affect you unless you start over thinking it and obsessing in the mirror and the trick to not letting that happen is to stay busy.

Do you find people looking at your hairline during conversation?

Here is what I would suggest you try but it might not even be an option for you depending on how you feel about it. If you could lighten the hairline area just a bit I think it will reduce the effect of the darker color and thicker caliber hairs. Problem is you would need to keep up with it otherwise the roots become dark and then it becomes even more noticeable. Roger Stone pictured below does that and since he is older the gray color works for him.

Maybe just leaving it all for now if the better option and if necessary change your hairstyle. It gives you more time to think this all through and technology is changing so fast that more hair transplants might not even be necessary.

 

[matin1991]

Thanks a lot for your reply topcat.

First of all, the age is correct. Second, I am confident I took the right decision, though I could have hoped for an even more natural look. But I was aware when I went it to it, that it would not be 100% natural.

I have an extremely good donor site, so I am not too worried about having too little for potential future procedures. And as you say, perhaps a new 'cure' will soon come within long (yeah, I'm looking at you Histogen), so that I don't need any future procedures aside from the one next year.

Nope, I do not feel like people are starring at my hairline. In fact, I get so many compliments for my hair, but the reason for that I think is twofold. One, I am often adding concealer to my hairline and the crown where my next hair transplant will be aimed at. Two, I have - as stated before - an extremely good-looking, curly donor hair (and I'm not saying that to brag about it), but when I have that in a bun, I feel like people are focusing on that instead of my relatively thin crown (which they cannot see unless they come really close due to the concealer).

Thanks a lot on the advice as to the coloring. Do you know anyone else from this forum who does the same? Would be great with some other pics. And also, if you know someone in here who have got a procedure done with nape hair, I'd love to hear.

Thanks again for your help and advice, topkat. Much appreciated.

 

[JeanLucBB]

Going to be honest I don't think anyone would look twice at your hairline, although a few of the angles look a tad off on the left side. I'd steer clear of any except extremely talented hairline doctors like Keser, Feriduni or Konior, as currently you run the risk of getting a result that is of no improvement.

On the issue of nape hair, it isn't texturally similar to hairline hair, is a completely different density and slightly different colour so it will look out of place, and additionally you run a high risk of thinning.

What you want sounds like a recipe for disaster. If you have the money go to a hairline God like I mentioned and stick to scalp hair, maybe ask for them to FUE out of the temporal area which may be more natural looking in the hairline. Nape hair is stupidity and will look terrible, forget about it.

 

[topcat]

Martin your idea with nape hair is right on target as far as softening the hairline. The hairs on your head flow from thin to thicker as one moves away from the periphery. I’m not suggesting that you do this for other reasons that I have stated. It comes down to risk and as long as a patient understands the risk along with the numbers then it becomes a personal decision. You seem to be comfortable with the numbers so maybe you feel you will not experience extensive hair loss. If that is the case then you are one of the lucky ones. For most the number will not add up long term if they start too young and they are destined for extensive hair loss.


To give you an idea of what you are trying to accomplish you can view Sofarsogood in this thread. It goes back about 10 years ago that he had the procedure. He used leg hair which is often similar to nape hair thinner and lighter in color. It seemed to work really well for him but reading the forums for over 18 years I can honestly say there haven’t been many others who have presented similar cases. Yes a few but that’s about it at least in my opinion.


http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-58226.html

I thought about using leg hair at one time but thankfully I didn’t. It seems most reputable surgeons will consider beard and/or chest hair mostly for repairs but not many go into the nape area nor do they extract leg hairs. It just doesn’t seem to be a good long term solution for most. Another option could be to have hairs extracted near the nape area but in the safe zone. It could be those hairs might also provide you with the same effect.


Here is my leg hair over the span of about 15-20 years. You might get a great result with nape but it might only last a few years or 10-20 as it also seems to thin over time like leg hair. But then again it might not be lost over time. It's an unknown risk and comes down to a personal decision.

 

[matin1991]

Going to be honest I don't think anyone would look twice at your hairline, although a few of the angles look a tad off on the left side. I'd steer clear of any except extremely talented hairline doctors like Keser, Feriduni or Konior, as currently you run the risk of getting a result that is of no improvement.

On the issue of nape hair, it isn't texturally similar to hairline hair, is a completely different density and slightly different colour so it will look out of place, and additionally you run a high risk of thinning.

What you want sounds like a recipe for disaster. If you have the money go to a hairline God like I mentioned and stick to scalp hair, maybe ask for them to FUE out of the temporal area which may be more natural looking in the hairline. Nape hair is stupidity and will look terrible, forget about it.

Thanks for your reply, JeanLucBB. Hmm, can you then explain to me why Dr Umar, among others, often show exceptional results with his use of nape hair in the hairline? I mean, the texture used from the safe zone is obviously not of the same texture either, otherwise I guess my hairline would have looked perfect. My thesis is that using nape hair could give me a more subtle hairline, instead of the bit harsh one I have now due to, as topcat mentions, darker and thicker caliber hairs taken from the back of my head. So I reckon "recipe for disaster" sounds a bit odd, but you're more than welcome to clarify or extend on your thoughts.

I'm not sure as to what you mean by "FUE out of the temporal area", so I'd love if you could elaborate on this point.

Thanks a lot for your considerations mate.

 

[matin1991]

Martin your idea with nape hair is right on target as far as softening the hairline. The hairs on your head flow from thin to thicker as one moves away from the periphery. I’m not suggesting that you do this for other reasons that I have stated. It comes down to risk and as long as a patient understands the risk along with the numbers then it becomes a personal decision. You seem to be comfortable with the numbers so maybe you feel you will not experience extensive hair loss. If that is the case then you are one of the lucky ones. For most the number will not add up long term if they start too young and they are destined for extensive hair loss.


To give you an idea of what you are trying to accomplish you can view Sofarsogood in this thread. It goes back about 10 years ago that he had the procedure. He used leg hair which is often similar to nape hair thinner and lighter in color. It seemed to work really well for him but reading the forums for over 18 years I can honestly say there haven’t been many others who have presented similar cases. Yes a few but that’s about it at least in my opinion.


http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-58226.html

I thought about using leg hair at one time but thankfully I didn’t. It seems most reputable surgeons will consider beard and/or chest hair mostly for repairs but not many go into the nape area nor do they extract leg hairs. It just doesn’t seem to be a good long term solution for most. Another option could be to have hairs extracted near the nape area but in the safe zone. It could be those hairs might also provide you with the same effect.


Here is my leg hair over the span of about 15-20 years. You might get a great result with nape but it might only last a few years or 10-20 as it also seems to thin over time like leg hair. But then again it might not be lost over time. It's an unknown risk and comes down to a personal decision.

Topcat, must I just say that your inputs are unbelievable helpful. Thanks a lot for assisting me here, it's much appreciated. I can see where you're coming from with the leg hair - it's seems to risky to use that area. And maybe it'll be the same with my nape hair - I def. need to do some more research into this area before settling on a decision. Could be there is a reason why only so few (from what I know) doctors that actually perform nape hair procedures.

Thanks again, Topcat - it's a pleasure discussing with you.

 

[JeanLucBB]

Thanks for your reply, JeanLucBB. Hmm, can you then explain to me why Dr Umar, among others, often show exceptional results with his use of nape hair in the hairline? I mean, the texture used from the safe zone is obviously not of the same texture either, otherwise I guess my hairline would have looked perfect. My thesis is that using nape hair could give me a more subtle hairline, instead of the bit harsh one I have now due to, as topcat mentions, darker and thicker caliber hairs taken from the back of my head. So I reckon "recipe for disaster" sounds a bit odd, but you're more than welcome to clarify or extend on your thoughts.

I'm not sure as to what you mean by "FUE out of the temporal area", so I'd love if you could elaborate on this point.

Thanks a lot for your considerations mate.

I'm not saying this to be rude, but if you think the nape results from Dr Umar look better than your own, you may have body dysmorphia issues, they don't look nearly as good as yours. Dr Umar is getting very presentable results for those with poor donors and previously bad surgery, but his body hair surgeries don't even look close to as good as a scalp surgery. His nape hair work does not look "good" in the traditional sense, and it is far more unnatural and different than a hairline hair than an occipital area hair. They look like sh*t and you will never achieve good density with nape hair. I know what you mean by "pluggy" for your own case but it still looks dense, and it looks natural. Not every one has "perfect" hair, but at least yours looks natural and you have full coverage and decent density. I personally don't like the design of your hairline though and a few of the directions seem a little off.

Have you asked your friends and family what they think it looks like? It may look different in person but you've put it under harsh light so it's hard to tell what it normally looks like and maybe it's weirder in person. Judging by the photos it looks fine and I've seen thousands of transplants.

The temporal area is on the sides of your head behind the temple points. This area is as close as possible to original hairline texture and caliber and is additionally safe from thinning.

If you had the money, I'd go to someone like Feriduni, Keser or Erdogan and maybe get them to really focus on what you want and perfect things. I still think the risk/reward is skewed vastly to risk in your case though.

 

[topcat]

Sure you are dealing with thinner hairs and fragile follicles. It’s much easier to use the one’s smack dab in the middle of the back of your head. Easier to see and easier to work with while being more likely to survive and grow. So do you get something to grow that might look a little off or do you risk taking the chance of having zero growth and the patient coming back and posting his poor result to a forum. Hairs that don’t look right can be explained as “you are over analyzing it”, “give it another year to soften”, “maybe try another hair style” etc. It’s not the work it’s always something else. It’s never……….hmmm………..yeah maybe we used the wrong hairs. Come back and we will reverse the procedure and place the right one’s hoping the follicles survive all the trauma while we pay for it all. It’s never that it’s always you, you, you.


I would let it go for now and see what happens in time. You can look at anyone that has had cosmetic surgery and tried to fix some minor defect that they saw in the mirror and it ends up leading to disaster like pulling on a loose thread.


Here is a picture of my nape area. Although I have never had extractions I did have a procedure that ending up stretching the area which reduced density. It was not an issue at the time and no one advised me that years later as the nape area naturally thinned I would end up looking like the hairline at the back of my head was unnaturally high. It also depicts what can happen when a strip is removed. You end up with a distinct line where the hair goes from dark brown instantly to gray. What happened to the slow graduation from dark brown to gray? It's missing it was cut out of the back of the head another red flag to add to the strip procedure. I have dozens and dozen listed in my book.


The young guys that post to the forums are simply clueless or they are working some angle. They don’t understand the numbers or don't want you to understand the numbers. Regardless of what you do always ask for the clinic to give you the numbers. Then post the numbers to the forum. If you decide to have a procedure and the numbers you find out too late make completely no sense on an ethical level then you have something to go by. Get the numbers in writing in case you need them in court of law because not being truthful about the numbers is marketing fraud and having them in writing is evidence. Get the numbers in writing from the clinic that is cutting open your head. If young guys understood the numbers there would be less issues but then is would reduce the number of young men enlisting while reducing revenue for the marketers disguised as posters.

 

[Pequod]

I would go to church, thank God I got a great hairline, and leave it at that.

 

[matin1991]

I would go to church, thank God I got a great hairline, and leave it at that.

No churches nearby. And joking aside: As glad as I am for my (new) hairline, as much would I like it to be just a tad better looking, as well as having my thinning crown (which you cannot see on the pictures) done.

 

[matin1991]

I'm not saying this to be rude, but if you think the nape results from Dr Umar look better than your own, you may have body dysmorphia issues, they don't look nearly as good as yours. Dr Umar is getting very presentable results for those with poor donors and previously bad surgery, but his body hair surgeries don't even look close to as good as a scalp surgery. His nape hair work does not look "good" in the traditional sense, and it is far more unnatural and different than a hairline hair than an occipital area hair. They look like sh*t and you will never achieve good density with nape hair. I know what you mean by "pluggy" for your own case but it still looks dense, and it looks natural. Not every one has "perfect" hair, but at least yours looks natural and you have full coverage and decent density. I personally don't like the design of your hairline though and a few of the directions seem a little off.

Have you asked your friends and family what they think it looks like? It may look different in person but you've put it under harsh light so it's hard to tell what it normally looks like and maybe it's weirder in person. Judging by the photos it looks fine and I've seen thousands of transplants.

The temporal area is on the sides of your head behind the temple points. This area is as close as possible to original hairline texture and caliber and is additionally safe from thinning.

If you had the money, I'd go to someone like Feriduni, Keser or Erdogan and maybe get them to really focus on what you want and perfect things. I still think the risk/reward is skewed vastly to risk in your case though.

To be honest, maybe you're right, JeanLucBB - as now when you say it, it's quite difficult to spot if Umar's work is good since many of the videos and pics are of relatively low qual. Just think I have heard other people talking about some great work he's doing, but I could be mistaken.

As to the difference in hair appearance ('normal' vs 'nape' hair), I'd like to hear your take on girls' hairlines then, which often have a much softer look. Because IMO, it could look like a lot of my own nape hair with a great density in the front. I have attached a pic of a random girl's hairline, so you can see what I mean. Also, I have attached a picture of my hairline w/o harsh lightning for you to see (I reckon you can see tell the difference between mine and her's )

I have never asked friends and family as they don't even know about it. At some point I'll let them know, just haven't felt the urge yet.

Didn't know that you could gain a better result with using hair from the temporal area - that's very interesting, and def. something I'll look into. Thanks!

As to the money - I don't have that amount of money. However, I am also very satisfied with my present surgeon, not only because of a good result with my first transplant, but also because he is a really nice guy, and always takes his time to reply to my e-mails. But I appreciate your suggestions. Is it someone you have had experience with yourself? And perhaps you could elaborate on why you think the risk is too high - because of my potential future lack of donor hair?

 

[matin1991]

Sure you are dealing with thinner hairs and fragile follicles. It’s much easier to use the one’s smack dab in the middle of the back of your head. Easier to see and easier to work with while being more likely to survive and grow. So do you get something to grow that might look a little off or do you risk taking the chance of having zero growth and the patient coming back and posting his poor result to a forum. Hairs that don’t look right can be explained as “you are over analyzing it”, “give it another year to soften”, “maybe try another hair style” etc. It’s not the work it’s always something else. It’s never……….hmmm………..yeah maybe we used the wrong hairs. Come back and we will reverse the procedure and place the right one’s hoping the follicles survive all the trauma while we pay for it all. It’s never that it’s always you, you, you.


I would let it go for now and see what happens in time. You can look at anyone that has had cosmetic surgery and tried to fix some minor defect that they saw in the mirror and it ends up leading to disaster like pulling on a loose thread.


Here is a picture of my nape area. Although I have never had extractions I did have a procedure that ending up stretching the area which reduced density. It was not an issue at the time and no one advised me that years later as the nape area naturally thinned I would end up looking like the hairline at the back of my head was unnaturally high. It also depicts what can happen when a strip is removed. You end up with a distinct line where the hair goes from dark brown instantly to gray. What happened to the slow graduation from dark brown to gray? It's missing it was cut out of the back of the head another red flag to add to the strip procedure. I have dozens and dozen listed in my book.


The young guys that post to the forums are simply clueless or they are working some angle. They don’t understand the numbers or don't want you to understand the numbers. Regardless of what you do always ask for the clinic to give you the numbers. Then post the numbers to the forum. If you decide to have a procedure and the numbers you find out too late make completely no sense on an ethical level then you have something to go by. Get the numbers in writing in case you need them in court of law because not being truthful about the numbers is marketing fraud and having them in writing is evidence. Get the numbers in writing from the clinic that is cutting open your head. If young guys understood the numbers there would be less issues but then is would reduce the number of young men enlisting while reducing revenue for the marketers disguised as posters.

I totally know where you're coming from with my potential dissatisfaction of using nape hair. I'll have to do tons of research before taking the decision for sure.

It sounds like you have had a really bad experience with your transplant, topcat. I'm sorry about that However, to be honest, I wouldn't give the look at the back of your head much thought - don't think it looks that bad, but I still understand how much of a bad experience it must have been. And I also understand your message of me needing to be careful in my choice when it regards something so relatively important as how I will look the rest of my life. So thanks for your suggestions.

Out of curiosity - would you mind to show how your hairline looks from the front?

 

[JeanLucBB]

To be honest, maybe you're right, JeanLucBB - as now when you say it, it's quite difficult to spot if Umar's work is good since many of the videos and pics are of relatively low qual. Just think I have heard other people talking about some great work he's doing, but I could be mistaken.

As to the difference in hair appearance ('normal' vs 'nape' hair), I'd like to hear your take on girls' hairlines then, which often have a much softer look. Because IMO, it could look like a lot of my own nape hair with a great density in the front. I have attached a pic of a random girl's hairline, so you can see what I mean. Also, I have attached a picture of my hairline w/o harsh lightning for you to see (I reckon you can see tell the difference between mine and her's )

I have never asked friends and family as they don't even know about it. At some point I'll let them know, just haven't felt the urge yet.

Didn't know that you could gain a better result with using hair from the temporal area - that's very interesting, and def. something I'll look into. Thanks!

As to the money - I don't have that amount of money. However, I am also very satisfied with my present surgeon, not only because of a good result with my first transplant, but also because he is a really nice guy, and always takes his time to reply to my e-mails. But I appreciate your suggestions. Is it someone you have had experience with yourself? And perhaps you could elaborate on why you think the risk is too high - because of my potential future lack of donor hair?

Risk reward in the sense that 95% of people would be happy with your result and chances are you will not improve the result. Currently you say no one has mentioned it, and to me it looks very good especially in the last two pics you posted. What if you get another procedure and it doesn't grow on one side? What if it results in shock loss and kills existing hairs transplanted to the area?

Judging from the last two photos, I think your problems are in your head. Certainly if you were filthy rich you could go to someone like Feriduni (accepting risks of a bad result) to perfect things, but otherwise you are wasting your energy worrying.

 

[topcat]

Martin it’s all just an experience for me, 32 years of observing the industry and 18 years observing the forums while having spent close to 6 figures trying to fix something that was done to me at 23 does at the very least it does have some value for some person out there and maybe more than one person.

You might be misreading my sentiment it's not about my own experience at 54 I am way past it. It's about what I have watched these slimeball marketers do to very young men many simply desperate and lacking life experience. Much of their modus operandi has been the same for years and it follows a pattern.


What’s interesting about my hairline is one would have to ask where did all the transplanted hair go that required all that money and hard work on my part. Just like the hair on top of your head the donor area is subject to loss due to DHT it just takes longer. Look at most older people with hairloss and you will see extremely thin donor areas because the hair was lost in time. Many hair transplant patients you see today could very well lose some of that transplanted hair and for many it might be more then they think but all over a long period of time and this is when the texture of the grafted skin reveals itself and maybe panic will set in depending on how well a person has moved on from caring.


I had some scalp hair transplanted from the sides of my head and Dr. ******** was able to extract a little over 1000 hairs from my chin along with some chest hair. It gave me enough to work with while using concealer to look very normal today.


Most that simply visit forums do not understand the numbers and get caught up in it all with the posters/marketers posting daily for years. Of 40,000 fu on the head most will lose 20,000 fu in time. And then in time even a good percentage of those taken from the donor zone of 20,000 over time will be lost. The best you can do is maybe extract 5000 which gives a person 25% coverage up until the time that some of the 25% is also lost and then maybe it becomes 20% or even less. Once a consumer thoroughly understands these numbers then better decisions will be made.


My procedures with Dr. ******** were was performed over 4 years and 3 operations.


This first picture is my hair at 23 and that was about 32 years ago. I thought I was adding a few hairs to my temples but what I got was about 40 giant 4mm plugs of thick dark brown hairs stamped into my hairline disfiguring me. I was 23 and I felt shame, despair and desperation on how I was going undo my screw up. It’s only in hindsight that I realize it was not my screw up. These older guys that work in the hair transplant business know exactly what they are doing and they see young desperate guys and it’s all very easy money. The majority will be disfigured in some way in my opinion and for some it’s only a matter of time as their hair loss marches on and the decision to have surgery reveals its face. Then that desperation reignites and they find themselves back facing that same demon which could have easily been eliminated if they simply gave themselves more time to adjust to the hairloss and maybe change their environment. What could have been something temporary becomes something that can haunt you your entire life and it can have a devastating effect depending on the mental strength of a person. It could be good or bad and for most it is very bad.

At 23 I was hardly a hair transplant candidate but that is not the way this business operates yesterday or today. Martin this long response is not necessarily for you but the readers. Forums should be a place of discussion and learning and not what it has become something worked by every slimeball marketer in the hair transplant business working on their image of being a good guy.


I believe Dr. ******** to be a highly skilled ethical surgeon. And I also believe this business if filled to the rim with predators no different than pedophiles that operate in the same manner. Many will tell these young guys what they want to hear and many of these over the top go for it posters act as groomers to lure them in. When the forums themselves work hand in hand its a form of marketing fraud and when a group is working together it's conspiracy to commit marketing fraud plain and simple regardless of disclaimers. Disclaimers mean zero when laws are broken. Maybe at one time long ago forums served as discussion sites for patients and prospective patients but they have slowly morphed into marketing portals and same applies. One can put any name on it they want as a way to convince themselves that they have no worries.


I do not recommend anyone have hair transplant it’s just too risky and if you need to be groomed into signing up that should raise yet another red flag. This especially applies to young guys where the numbers simply do not add up if you start too soon. Give hair loss time and you will get over it and there are many reasons why you should which I’m not going to go into here…….it’s just too long. Get into the gym and build your confidence that way for starters.

Hair at 23

I think Dr. ******** worked a miracle for me I say it because it’s the truth and that is the only reason I say it. He put the time in and did the work for years and years while the majority decided that using a small hand punch was simply too much work plain and simple. Everything else is bullsh*t in my opinion. Try extracting 3000 grafts with a small hand punch then you will understand. Your hand will feel like it's going to fall off after about 10 minutes and that is when the majority work on the excuse instead.


Before surgery

Before surgery

Beard extractions

No concealer

Wet after diving into a pool with concealer

Dry with concealer

 

[SeanFUE]

Do not use nape hair. It may not yield, looks more fragile, may not last. Wouldn't have thought about it like that before, but now thinking about a lot of things at this stage. I have experience in it right now, and depending on how things look by November, I can give a strong and honest detailed assessment then. Right now, things are not looking natural nor blending properly. You do not want see through bullshit that make folks eyes wonder toward your hairline. You do not want to be in such a position that your family photos and etc look screwed up. Id say your hair looks good at this stage. Dont fix what isnt broken. It may just cause more harm. Best of luck.