Should finasteride be legal?

[Diffuser44]

Each month we’re contacted by men around the globe desperately seeking treatment for this horrifying condition, a condition for which there is currently no effective treatment. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

Two months ago, we heard from the parents of dentist in the UK whose son took his own life due to the effects of PFS. And just a week ago, the mother of a Texas man who’d been suffering from PFS contacted us to say her son as well had committed suicide.

That said, we understand where you’re coming from; in an ideal world, there would be a simple test to determine if men were predisposed to PFS. Obviously, many men are not adversely affected by the drug, while an increasingly number of men do appear to be.



The above information is a response from a non profit company researching post finasteride syndrome. For those who aren't aware of what that is it's often related to the persistent side effects in men after quitting finasteride. Many people never experienced sides while on the drug and quit after long term usage and have their endocrine systems crash. I'm lucky this did not happen to me.

But here in lies the moral dilemma. I quit because I was no longer comfortable with the potential sides
of finasteride. If there was a hormonal shift I wanted it to happen sooner than later before it getting worse after long term use. Post finasteride syndrome, persisting side effects, and infertility were not
side effects or risks when I started. Once these came to light I made the choice to quit. You guys at least were made aware of these side effects. Most of you however have been taking it for 3 years or less and have no idea what will happen when and if you quit now or after long term use.
I've contacted veteran users on this site and some are really struggling with sides even though they were healthy while on the drug.


I can no longer promote a drug used for
cosmetic purposes that is known to have caused these terrible sides and young men to commit suicide.

The argument that finasteride prevents young men from committing suicide due to hair loss is not valid. If that's the case I feel sorry for these men's vanity and they should seek psychiatric help. But for a man to be given an FDA approved medication for hair loss that can result in suicide is corrupt and should not be legal.

Until more is learned on the subject, such as figuring out what men are predisposed and what men will be fine like myself, I would not suggest this drug for something like hair loss. You want to take this drug so that you guys can save your hair, while in the mean time it
destroys other men's lives?
The drug being prescribed for bph is different. These men are suffering from real physical medical problems. They are already having sexual dysfunction and other jssues. Finasteride benefits these men. It's the young bucks that are healthy and worried about hair loss
i want to protect from the drug. As long as they are aware of this issue then the choice is theres to make.

Our brains are heavily wired in the womb to respond
to our main hormones. Testosterone and dht is what makes us as men tick. Dht can decrease by up to 90 percent according to the FDA. I wouldn't recommend a drug that alters hormones by more than 20 percent. With finasteride you're reducing dht significantly. On top of that you're increasing the most potent estrogen: estraidol. No where in natures laws does the reduction of dht and increase in estrogen exist except for when using finasteride.


I hope this Pfs stuff isn't true. But the more I dig and research, it sounds like it is true and growing. There are no known predispositions and no known cures. Lives are at stake. Yet we choose to gamble.

I will volunteer to help research this condition and help find predispositions and prevention. I am very lucky to not have had post finasteride syndrome. I hope you guys are all lucky too. God speed.

[/FONT]

 

[Notcoolanymore]

Good post, but I think finasteride should be legal. Potential users should be made aware of sides and the decision should be ultimately theirs to make. Like all medication there are risks involved. Why do we take such a strong stance against finasteride, because our D's are involved? What about other drugs that are known to have cost people their lives? There are many drugs being used today for medicinal purposes that are far more dangerous than finasteride. They are used because although potentially dangerous, can save lives.


I don't understand why you made this statement: "The argument that finasteride prevents young men from committing suicide due to hair loss is not valid." Why is it not valid. It is easy for you, and even me to say it is a bad thing for men to worry about vanity that much. We are sitting here though as men that have pretty much gone through their twenties with somewhat decent hair. What about those guys in their early 20's that are advanced norwoods that just want to fit in? I will say that I have never contemplated suicide over this crap, but I am sure many guys have. For some this is tough to deal with, and I have heard many claim to have thoughts of suicide. For all we know the guys that commited suicide with PFS, probably felt like crap because now they have no options to treat their hair loss and are severely depressed because they are continuing to see their looks erode.


All this stuff about PFS is just a sexy story for the media to latch onto and write about. Another way to put down bald guys. They find a few guys that have committed suicide and put it out there to make us look bad for caring about our looks. Another way to make us look stupid and weak. Another way for a reporter/journalist with a full head of hair to say "balding isn't that bad and is a natural part of life. Why didn't you just accepted it instead of hurting yourself trying to treat it". I am sure if they tried they could find many guys that have taken their lives over losing hair, but the majority don't want to hear that story. A story like that would tell the world how this crap really hurts the people that have to deal with it. People would actually see that we are human beings that deserve to be treated like more than just a punch line for jokes. Notice how these stories never mention how much it sucks to be bald. Along with the banning of finasteride, you never hear for the demand of effective treatments. All these news reports and bogus studies are basically just telling us to stop treating your hair loss and accept being the jokes of the world.


I just don't see why millions of guys should not be given the option to treat their hair loss, because a few thousand may have suffered PFS. That just doesn't seem fair to me. Read the warning label on just about every drug out there. Most of them have a long list of sides much worse than those of finasteride. If we are going to make finasteride illegal, than why not make those illegal too.


Like I said as long as their is full disclosure, the choice should be given to people to use it or not. I don't see why millions of people should not be given the choice to treat something that has a huge effect on their lives. Why else would anybody take a prescription drug if it was no big deal to lose their hair.


Good thread though. I look forward to the civilized discussion.

 

[drgs]

1. Finasteride is needed and prescribed for other things than hair loss
2. There are prescription drugs with worse side effects than finasteride

 

[Diffuser44]

I'm not getting my information from news or the media. I'm getting it from members of this site that have taken the drug for 5 plus years and then quit. I simply ask them, did you ever go back on finasteride. Then there response is how they've been dealing with post finasteride ever since they chose to quit.

I contacted the non profit directly and the above information was from an email I received from them. All I am saying is if this Pfs syndrome is real, which 6 years later it still seems to be a real thing, then maybe there should be extra studies and warning labels on the drug. Such as the anti depressant drugs that may cause suicide. That warning label may need to be added.

Most of your decisions are based on the people that have had success on the drug long term. But those people don't ever stop taking the drug. Find me people that have taken it long term, quit and stayed quit they don't have health problems. I'm just not sure you guys realize this since you didn't go through what some of us veterans already went through. The information I got isn't about the media or collecting money from Merck.

Johneuropa. Yes I have posted many threads. But I also had helped
on many of threads of people seeking help while doing that. More so than you in the past 2
weeks. Most of my threads are actually very good and have useful facts that I researched. Sorry you have it out for me but I don't care. I'm not posting any more threads regardless. It is clear to me that you people are pro finasteride and any time there is an article against it or person that tries to bring into light the dark side of the drug it immediately gets bashed.

My advice on finasteride: don't take
it if you plan to have kids. If you start then take it for
The rest of your lives. There are no studies on people taking it long term and then quitting. The ones who do don't have pretty pictures.

- - - Updated - - -

This was not a dealing with side effects thread. This was a bringing up a highly ignored controversial issue. Until seeing more evidence on the contrary this needs to be researched and discussed more.

Its as if in some men there body adapts well to their hormones shifting going on finasteride. But their body must think it's a permanent shift and rewires the body accordingly. Then when these men quit their bodies can't rewire back to the way they were supposed to be.

This drug is way too unpredictable.

 

[IDeveloper]

Yes, the way this drug affects you hormonal profile is unexpected. Even if you find people that retired the drug and then restored their original hormonal balance after long-term usage, that would not help you. Unfortunately, You need to experience this yourself to see what would happen!

 

[Diffuser44]

:agree:

 

[drgs]

I've been on finasteride for 2,5 months. I plan to do the following:
Take finasteride for one year. Then get off the drug for one month, after that do some tests, hormones, sperm mobility etc.
If things are looking ok, continue for one more year and repeat

At some point I will have data from previous years for comparison, to see the progress in time, and which I can use to take the decision whether I should stop

 

[Diffuser44]

I've been on finasteride for 2,5 months. I plan to do the following:
Take finasteride for one year. Then get off the drug for one month, after that do some tests, hormones, sperm mobility etc.
If things are looking ok, continue for one more year and repeat

At some point I will have data from previous years for comparison, to see the progress in time, and which I can use to take the decision whether I should stop

That's a smart move. I'm going to be following up with my doctor and hopefully clear away some of this Pfs hysteria I've been exposed to.

I apologize for scaring everyone. When I started to contact people and heard back from them it resulted in very unsettling nerves and I just got really upset.

My recommendation is to do whatever you're the most comfortable with. If you take comfort in keeping your hair and are healthy minded maybe consider finasteride but weigh the outcomes. If you are comfortable going bald go bald. Otherwise minoxidil and nizoral can help slow down and even regrow hair in many users!

 

[Notcoolanymore]

I appreciate this thread, even as a person that is in favor of trying finasteride to save your hair. I do believe this type of dialogue can be a good thing. One of my main issues is when people use lack of proof or conclusive studies to make claims that finasteride is doing harm. I am not saying that the guys you contacted are lying, but they are a small sampling and what are we using to identify their PFS? Are we just listening to them say "yeah, I used to have 9 inches, but now I only have 3"? That was a joke, but real studies actually need to be done. Also we need a bigger group of people to study. How do we identify brain fog, or guys claiming to have gyno? I always find the whole brain fog side as pretty weak. The criteria of proof for or against finasteride claims should be the same. Are you claiming that all people that stopped the drug have PFS, I just find that hard to believe. Excuse me if I am wrong, but it did sound like you implied that in a previous post. Those types of claims are just a little too baylife-esque and I have a hard time believing them. Finasteride has been around for a quarter of a century. There have to be millions of long term finasteride users who have stopped using the drug. We would have definitely heard about all this crap by now. It wouldn't be that hard to find. What we have are mostly stories from guys with the personality of coolmusti, baylife, etc. I highly doubt we have that many guys walking around with PFS I don't buy it.

I think what you are going through is a classic example of how people actually get sides or PFS. Internet research and data gathered in an unscientific way leads to anger, fear, and paranoia. That eventually leads to sides or PFS. I enjoy this dialogue, but if all these doctors or whomever want to actually do some good they need to do some real research and studies to see if their is something going on. Not just do a survey of guys from propeciahelp. Not saying this is what you did, but people use that lame study as some sort of proof when it was poor at best. My bet is that they will find nothing new and will find that all this internet caused hysteria is just a bunch of BS. Again THIS IS NOT A NEW DRUG. People just haven't recently used the drug for 10 years and decided to stop. Just about every propecia use scenario has been done and people have not been having all of these issues until recently.

 

[Diffuser44]

I appreciate this thread, even as a person that is in favor of trying finasteride to save your hair. I do believe this type of dialogue can be a good thing. One of my main issues is when people use lack of proof or conclusive studies to make claims that finasteride is doing harm. I am not saying that the guys you contacted are lying, but they are a small sampling and what are we using to identify their PFS? Are we just listening to them say "yeah, I used to have 9 inches, but now I only have 3"? That was a joke, but real studies actually need to be done. Also we need a bigger group of people to study. How do we identify brain fog, or guys claiming to have gyno? I always find the whole brain fog side as pretty weak. The criteria of proof for or against finasteride claims should be the same. Are you claiming that all people that stopped the drug have PFS, I just find that hard to believe. Excuse me if I am wrong, but it did sound like you implied that in a previous post. Those types of claims are just a little too baylife-esque and I have a hard time believing them. Finasteride has been around for a quarter of a century. There have to be millions of long term finasteride users who have stopped using the drug. We would have definitely heard about all this crap by now. It wouldn't be that hard to find. What we have are mostly stories from guys with the personality of coolmusti, baylife, etc. I highly doubt we have that many guys walking around with PFS I don't buy it.

I think what you are going through is a classic example of how people actually get sides or PFS. Internet research and data gathered in an unscientific way leads to anger, fear, and paranoia. That eventually leads to sides or PFS. I enjoy this dialogue, but if all these doctors or whomever want to actually do some good they need to do some real research and studies to see if their is something going on. Not just do a survey of guys from propeciahelp. Not saying this is what you did, but people use that lame study as some sort of proof when it was poor at best. My bet is that they will find nothing new and will find that all this internet caused hysteria is just a bunch of BS. Again THIS IS NOT A NEW DRUG. People just haven't recently used the drug for 10 years and decided to stop. Just about every propecia use scenario has been done and people have not been having all of these issues until recently.

I think you are right in many of the propecia help victim cases. If you read the forums some of these guys post there it's absurd. No wonder men have become depressed after quitting the drug. Not only are they continuing to go bald which depressed them enough to seek medical attention for it, but now they are reading they might have permanently altered their hormones causing havoc on their psyche, body, and manhood.

I think there may have been some men committing suicide that were healthy, but were in such a funk from reading the propecia help and going through the stress of hair loss it just consumed them. More research needs to be done. It is a very unpredictable drug, especially since it significantly alters peoples hormones. A 70% reduction in dht is still very worrisome to me. Especially since little is known on its effects in our neurotransmitters, and neurology. The corresponding increase in estrogen also worries me.

The thing is, if you had a placebo drug that people took for 10 years (wouldn't happen cause it wouldn't be working), then told them that once they quit they could potentially be permanently harming themselves, there would probably be the same amount of people claiming to have those symptoms and syndrome.

It's just tough to make that call on whether it is true or not. That's why I'm volunteering in their research.

Interestingly enough though I did actually have an ultra sound on my testicles once because the pain got so bad. It very well could have been a small urinary tract infection related condition, and not due to finasteride.

No post finasteride side effects. Maybe some ADHD, but I've always had that.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

Interestingly enough though I did actually have an ultra sound on my testicles once because the pain got so bad. It very well could have been a small urinary tract infection related condition, and not due to finasteride.

LOL. I had an ultrasound done also. Not because of pain, but for something I thought was an abnormality. Luckily it was nothing. Before anybody gets worried, this was way before I started taking finasteride.

As far as finasteride goes, this is what needs to happen. More studies need to be done concerning this whole PFS business. All data needs to disclosed so everybody knows what they are getting into if they decide to take finasteride. Full disclosure means no more blaming if you get sides. The responsibility and choice will be 100% with the user. If we want a chance to stop our hair loss then we give it a try. If we cant deal with taking it because of the possibility of sides or psychological reasons, then we accept going bald while waiting for an alternate treatment.

 

[swingline747]

I deal with wiggy T and a couple other sides still after quitting finasteride over a year ago.
I personally think it should still be legal.
Every medication has to be monitored when taken though. I wish I knew enough to get my T levels checked prior then during as well.
I work out and like certain suppliments and fat burners. I personally like DMAA yet some think it should be illegal.
Personally you take responsibility for yourself when you take certain things.

I would like to see more studies and tests done on what causes PFS and have a pre test created to let you know what sides you might expect.

 

[Diffuser44]

What is wiggy T? That photo gets me excited. The fat one can watch

- - - Updated - - -

It's actually the middle girl that finds the bald men attractive . The fat one is insecure and needs a man with hair.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that you helped better or more than me is not relevant, I'm just saying that if all viewers were posting 10 threads everyday this forum would be messier than it is now,
We are a lot, sharing in this forum, we have to post with respect for other users and common sense.
BTW I'm not pro finasteride at all, i'm just against propaganda-troller guys like coolmusty or baylife.

Yeah I'm obsessed at the moment. I have stopped creating new threads. My apologies for the 40 threads I have created that surface there way back up.

 

[swingline747]

What is wiggy T? That photo gets me excited. The fat one can watch

- - - Updated - - -

It's actually the middle girl that finds the bald men attractive . The fat one is insecure and needs a man with hair.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah I'm obsessed at the moment. I have stopped creating new threads. My apologies for the 40 threads I have created that surface there way back up.

wiggy t = I have crazy testosterone levels now. I fluxuate it seems from really low to really high. I get them tested pretty regularly.

two things on the pic.
I wont comment on their looks because they look all of 15 lol. Its just a pic I found when googling "fat friend" and used it.
2nd.... if that one on the far left is my 1 in 5 shot, im NOT a gambling man!

 

[I.D WALKER]

We've all probably heard testimonials from fellow M.P.B. veterans claiming they achieve benefits from much lower dosages of finasteride than traditionally required. To be honest I have not seen or looked into any scientific literature to corroborate their reasonable claims, but if this holds true for the general finasteride. user then this could certainly be promising for those of us concerned about mitigating long term ill effects.

 

[Diffuser44]

We've all probably heard testimonials from fellow M.P.B. veterans claiming they achieve benefits from much lower dosages of finasteride than traditionally required. To be honest I have not seen or looked into any scientific literature to corroborate their reasonable claims, but if this holds true for the general finasteride. user then this could certainly be promising for those of us concerned about mitigating long term ill effects.

I've read that in japan they have a .2 mg dose.

 

[benjt]

I've been on finasteride for 2,5 months. I plan to do the following:
Take finasteride for one year. Then get off the drug for one month, after that do some tests, hormones, sperm mobility etc.
If things are looking ok, continue for one more year and repeat

Nice idea, with one problem though: spermatogenesis takes between 60 and 90 days, i.e. two to three months, as far as I know. You will not be able to determine the full difference between sperm generated on and off finasteride without staying off it for the whole length of the spermatogenesis.

 

[Diffuser44]

Hmm. I wonder if bph suffering men have forums and talk about this same stuff? I bet the older wiser men know better than to give this post finasteride syndrome stuff the time of day.

- - - Updated - - -

So I've been contacted back by the Pfs research people. They want me to pay for all of the medical costs involved and to take a biopsy of my foreskin. This is not going to happen!

- - - Updated - - -

They said that Pfs might be genetic. I hope they find something out. It would be kind of funny if this whole time Pfs was only happening to a certain ethnic background, or a blood type of
some sort.

 

[Secretlybatman]

No it won't.

You know what else causes suicides
Anti depressants
you know what causes E.D
Anti depressants and anxiety drugs
you know what else can possibly cause cancer long term
Red meat
You know what else can change your body chemistry
Steroids
None of these are illegal or have been banned on prescription.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

No the drug doesn't need to be banned. I am sorry that unfortunately you have gotten sides from finasteride, but why should it be banned when it is helping so many others? Getting gyno is horrible, but it doesn't happen to most people that use it. I know that doesn't matter to you because you were one of the unlucky few.