"Scalp blood flow has nothing to do with male pattern baldness!" O,, REALLY???

[maher]

"In patients with early male pattern baldness, SBF was 2.6 times lower than the values found in the normal individuals"


http://web.a.ebscohost.com/ehost/de...=JnNpdGU9ZWhvc3QtbGl2ZQ==#db=cmedm&AN=2715645

 

[benjt]

Reduced scalp blood flow is a downstream effect of Androgenetic Alopecia, not a precursor.

 

[maher]

Reduced scalp blood flow is a downstream effect of Androgenetic Alopecia, not a precursor.

And thats because not as much blood is needed and blood floow to the scalp is decreased. right?

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wrong! benjt.. then WTF are you massaging your scalp daily for 20 min?

 

[benjt]

Nope, not quite. The study you cited talks about subcutaneous blood flow. Subcutaneous blood supply is governed by ad-hoc created infrastructure during anagen phase which triggers adipogenesis and after that angiogenesis. In Androgenetic Alopecia, however, your follicles in the bald areas never enter anagen phase again. Thus, adipogenesis and angiogenesis are never started as well - and so, you also dont get subcutaneous blood supply.

It is a correct observation that subcutaneous blood supply is strongly decreased in Androgenetic Alopecia patients, but the question is: How useful is that knowledge, given it's a downstream effect?

The most important thing to take from this, is, though: Blood supply is decreased because of Androgenetic Alopecia; Androgenetic Alopecia does not happen because of decreased blood supply.

 

[benjt]

Anyone who has read into hair cycling; it is one of the few well understood aspects of Androgenetic Alopecia. In my last post I gave a quick summary of how hair cycling connects to blood supply. You should easily find more info by googling the terms.

 

[TheHandsomeLurker]

Benjt, this is among the most useful and comprehensible writing I've seen on this forum. Bravo.

 

[maher]

Anyone who has read into hair cycling; it is one of the few well understood aspects of Androgenetic Alopecia. In my last post I gave a quick summary of how hair cycling connects to blood supply. You should easily find more info by googling the terms.

No tnx, man.. I read your posts on the subject before, ful of speculations and TBH, they bored me to death- no real value there. Sometimes it seems you and TheHandsomeLurker are the same person.

Anyway guys.. good luck with scalp massage and DR.. Oh, yeah and minoxidil.. i hear its great vasodilator- TheHandsomeLurker, hope it works great for you.

 

[benjt]

No tnx, man.. I read your posts on the subject before, ful of speculations

That's why I told you to google and not to read my posts.
"Oh no, I'd rather not google and inform myself, I'd prefer to just keep my opinion and be adamant about it." Best attitutde ever when trying to figure something out.

and TBH, they bored me to death- no real value there.

I couldn't care less if my posts bored you. Trying to understand hair loss is not supposed to alleviate your boredom. If you want something less boring, go watch a movie or something.

Sometimes it seems you and TheHandsomeLurker are the same person.

"You don't have the same opinion as me? You must obviously be...
- the same person as some other user
- working for big pharma
- a government believer
- a communist"

Why is it that some people just can't discuss the matter at hand but always have to come up with wild speculations about other users when they don't agree with them?


Anyway, some reads which are - in case you don't notice - not my posts:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10771470
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/03/27/1312880111.full.pdf
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...hts-comments?p=1139689&viewfull=1#post1139689

 

[cthulhu2.0]

word on the street is dht has something to do with hairloss

 

[maher]

word on the street is dht has something to do with hairloss

DHT is a downstream effect of Androgenetic Alopecia, not a precursor.

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OK, seriously.. I opened this threat because there are still some people claiming that reduced scalp blood flow has absolutely NOTHING to do with male pattern baldness. It could be tight scalp, hypoxic fibrotic tissue or whatever else could be the reason for reduced flow.. but at some point it plays its role in male pattern baldness. I NEVER said that its a primary cause of male pattern baldness.

And now I'm getting all this hate and neg. rate from people that go as extreme as wounding or splashing vasodilator on their scalp.. anything to get their blood flowing or to revive the tissue.. absurd..

 

[benjt]

OK, seriously.. I opened this threat because there are still some people claiming that reduced scalp blood flow has absolutely NOTHING to do with male pattern baldness. It could be tight scalp, hypoxic fibrotic tissue or whatever else could be the reason for reduced flow.. but at some point it plays its role in male pattern baldness.

If you make claims, provide a source. The study you cited only reports correlation, not causation, and the causation has already been covered as per the connection between anagen phase -> adipogenesis -> angiogenesis, which you were already provided the sources to.

And now I'm getting all this hate and neg. rate from people that go as extreme as wounding or splashing vasodilator on their scalp..

No, you're getting all this hate and neg. rate because you make bold claims without any proof and on top of that become aggressive and go ad hominem when that is being pointed out.

anything to get their blood flowing or to revive the tissue.. absurd..

You should read into the wounding theory and minoxidil's workings. While minoxidil isn't completely understood yet, it also increases PGE2 expression which counteracts the PGD2 in Androgenetic Alopecia. And the objective of wounding was never "to get blood flowing", so I don't see any connection to your claim that "reduced blood flow plays its role in male pattern baldness". And note: correlation is not causation.

 

[cthulhu2.0]

There isn't solid evidence that increased blood flow will do much for hairloss. Find me 2 studies that show that there is a strong relationship between the two, then compare those to all of the studies done on the relationship between dht and hairloss; and don't give me the bs that researchers haven't discovered the link between blood flow and hairloss, because they certainly know more than all of us. Increased blood flow will certainly not make you bald faster but it certainly won't help that much. Just look at the success of people using the laser comb and those on this forum that participated in the dermaroller trial.

 

[Jamesallenliwei]

Don't you think that regularly massage your scalp does anything good to your hair?

 

[I.D WALKER]

I think that if you believe it's helping you then why should you stop. Besides there's only a couple other unmentionables I'm aware of that are more relaxing than a good and thorough scalp massage.