HanginInThere said:
I see more people posting that Saw PALMETTO worked for them, than i see guys saying it did not work for them
Who cares what we see? I see the opposite. I see people constantly posting that it caused them to shed like crazy and never stop. So who is right? Neither of us. Show me the clinical data. You don't know what else they're using at the time. You don't know if they're all using the same dose. ETC ETC ETC There are so many variables you can't know about by just reading online comments! I dont judge the effectiveness even of Propecia or Rogaine on people's comments on discussion forums. I based it on the clinical data. It amazes me that there are human beings out there who think doing that is "stupid". Absolutely astounding.
It doesn't matter what anonymous internet posters say. What matters is the clinical data. Go get me some and you will instantly convert me to a Saw Palmetto proponent. Instantly I will shout it from a mountaintop.
Find 200 studies on Saw Palmetto and hair loss, just like I can find 200 studies on SP and the prostate. You say the studies aren't done because it can't be patented? Did you even take 2 seconds to think about that logic? Why are there 200 studies on Saw Palmetto and the prostate if its an issue of patenting? Think man, think.
I already know that you consider comments from unverifiable, undocumented, anonymous internet posters to be your gold standard for proof. That's where we differ, and why we will never agree.
Im going to go create 50 fake usernames right now, and over the next 6 months, post that rabbit poop grew my hair. Nobody will know who I am, nobody will have any proof im telling the truth, and nobody will know if Im imagining things or not. But you will consider it solid proof, "cuz you heard it on a forum" ?
HanginInThere said:
Any one who says Saw palmetto does not work,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,does not know what they are talking about, including redbone
How many clinical studies have you run on Saw Palmetto to verify your claim that it works? Im guessing zero, right? I sat next to Angela Christiano, head of the research team at Columbia Univerisy, who ran a highly detailed clinical data on Saw Palmetto and its effect on the follicle for over a 6 month period, including actual microscopic photos of the follicle changes, and she looked me right in the eye and said "It didn't do a damn thing". The study was tossed. Thats all the clinical data I need right now. You can't say she doesn't know what she's talking about. She proved it.
HangingInThere said:
obviously a lot of board members have posted it decreased their shedding , anywhere from slightly to greatly. In my case it decreased it from 300 hairs a day, raining hair in the shower, logged the drain every time a huge clump of hair..........down to 15 hairs a day within 2 weeks.
Is that how you collect clinical data? I should run that one by the research team at Columbia and see if they'll give it a go. Ill probably have a hard time getting them to ignore how incredibly subjective and innacurate "hair counts via shower drain for a couple weeks" is.
You could pour urine on your head and see a change in fallout rate. Thats what shedding is. Response to stimuli. Read the shedding article at the top of this page. The second half of every shedding cycle *IS* a stoppage of shedding. Response to stimuli and the natural cycle back into growth is not proof that anything works. Using that as your proof is absurd. Hair does this even *without* stimuli.
This is why clinical data is what matters, not what you see in your shower drain. Everything is subjective in hair loss treatment unless you have the means to document your hair counts over a period of 6 to 12 months, and are not on ANY OTHER TREATMENT at the time. This is why we do not base our opinion on what we hear people say. We always base it on the science that has been done on it.
Tell me why there are over 200 studies done showing the effectiveness of SP on the prostate, and zero on SP and the follicle? Did science just forget to check? That's what you're asking us to believe.
HangingInThere said:
Just look at my above post. Its curious that Hairlosstalk moderators have pre programmed this forum to automatically highlight the word Propecia as a link............hmmmm........then at the Same time the moderators never fail to bash Saw Palmetto as a useless unproven supplement. See any conflict of interest here? oh noooooooooo
Yeah you're right, we're out to get you. There's a big anti saw palmetto conspiracy. Let me know when you come down from your meds so we can have an intelligent conversation. You're posting thoughts of conspiracy against helping people on a site with over 500 pages intended solely to help people. Your ability to ignore your peripheral vision is astounding. When you come back down to reality, let us know, and we'll talk.
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