Saw Palmetto good for fina side effects?

[jinx83]

Hey. I've red in some decribtions of Saw Palmetto, that besides it's anti-androgen activity, it also helps with a bad libido and acts against estrogen. So it would be great to have an 5-AR inhibitor, which also deals with fina's side effects.
The thing is, is it really true? Because androgen inhibition and better libido are two factors that preclude each other, so I'm a little sceptical, but on the other hand it is believed that SP acts with different mechanisms than fina, so there is a spark of plausibility for SP.

Anyway, has someone noticed positive feedback from SP?

 

[Stingray]

You heard wrong. Saw palmetto is an anti-ANDROGEN...has nothing to do with free estrogens...if anything it would skew the androgen:estrogen ratio the other direction. If you're experiencing side effects with just finasteride...I seriously wouldn't advocate including an anti-androgen with your regimen. Try ginkgo biloba, or as XL would recommend, mega-man (is that right?) multivitamins.

 

[jinx83]

I actually never thought of SP as an anti-estrogen, I was just wondering whether to add it to mu regimen along with fina., and since I *heard*, that it is used to treat libido and so on, it occured to me only as a good idea.

But anyway, thanx for consultation.

Oh, and one more thing Stingray - I've noticed that you're really a great asset to this board. I mean, seriously, noone hardly ever tries to consult with issues that do not conern or interest him (like go to hairlosshelp boards, you hardly ever get *any* feedback), many people go towards attitude "hell, f*ck you, that's not my problem" and never reply (oh hell, I guess I'm also one of these poeple!) to posts. But people like you (or xzellerate) are different. So big thanx for having you on these boards

Just thought I would add this

 

[Stingray]

My pleasure actually.

I kinda think of myself like this. "Are you a doctor?" "No, but I DID stay at a holiday inn express last night."

A lot of the knowledge associated with this crap is out there for the world to read, however...9/10'ths of the people that frequent these boards don't even bother to process the information...just work themselves up into a panic. I just try to say it like it is.

 

[chuckfrasher]

Hey. I've red in some decribtions of Saw Palmetto, that besides it's anti-androgen activity, it also helps with a bad libido and acts against estrogen. So it would be great to have an 5-AR inhibitor, which also deals with fina's side effects.
The thing is, is it really true? Because androgen inhibition and better libido are two factors that preclude each other, so I'm a little sceptical, but on the other hand it is believed that SP acts with different mechanisms than fina, so there is a spark of plausibility for SP.

Anyway, has someone noticed positive feedback from SP?

Saw Palmetto is not a 5AR inhibitor.

Hair Loss Study Abstract: Comparison of finasteride (Proscar) and Serenoa repens (Permixon) in the inhibition of 5-alpha reductase in healthy male volunteers.



Title
Comparison of finasteride (Proscar) and Serenoa repens (Permixon) in the inhibition of 5-alpha reductase in healthy male volunteers.
Author
Strauch G; Perles P; Vergult G; Gabriel M; Gibelin B; Cummings S; Malbecq W; Malice MP
Address
Eclimed Pharmacologie Clinique, Hôpital Universitaire Cochin, Paris, France.
Source
Eur Urol, 26: 3, 1994, 247-52
Abstract
A total of 32 healthy male volunteers (age range 20-30 years) were enrolled in a 1-week open, randomized, placebo-controlled study comparing finasteride (Proscar), a 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor, with Permixon, the plant extract of Serenoa repens. The objective of the study was to evaluate the effect of single and multiple doses of the drugs on the inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase as assessed by serum dihydrotestosterone level determination. Following baseline measurements on day 1, the subjects were randomized to finasteride 5 mg once a day (n = 10), Permixon 80 mg x 2 twice a day (n = 11), or to placebo once a day (n = 11) for 7 days. Serum testosterone and dihydrotestosterone levels, were determined on day 1 (baseline and 12 h) and on days 2 (24 h), 3 (48 h), 4 (72 h), 6 (120 h), and 8 (168 h). After 12 h, a single dose of finasteride 5 mg reduced the serum dihydrotestosterone level by 65% (p < or = 0.01). The decreases ranged from -52 to -60% with multiple doses of finasteride 5 mg once a day (p < or = 0.01). As in the placebo group, there was no effect of Permixon on the serum dihydrotestosterone level. No significant difference was detected between finasteride and Permixon or between finasteride and placebo with respect to serum testosterone, except on days 3 and 6, respectively (p < or = 0.05). However, the corresponding serum testosterone levels remained within the normal ranges. These data confirm the efficacy of finasteride as inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase.

 

[Guest]

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 1995 Sep;54(5-6):273-9 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Human prostatic steroid 5 alpha-reductase isoforms--a comparative study of selective inhibitors.

Iehle C, Delos S, Guirou O, Tate R, Raynaud JP, Martin PM.

Laboratoire de Cancerologie Experimentale, Faculte de Medecine, Marseille, France.

The present study describes the independent expression of the type 1 and 2 isoforms of human 5 alpha-reductase in the baculovirus-directed insect cell expression system and the selectivity of their inhibition. The catalytic properties and kinetic parameters of the recombinant isozymes were consistent with published data. The type 1 isoform displayed a neutral (range 6-8) pH optimum and the type 2 isoform an acidic (5-6) pH optimum. The type 2 isoform had higher affinity for testosterone than did the type 1 isoform (Km = 0.5 and 2.9 microM, respectively). Finasteride and turosteride were selective inhibitors of the type 2 isoform (Ki (type 2) = 7.3 and 21.7 nM compared to Ki (type 1) = 108 and 330 nM, respectively). 4-MA and the lipido-sterol extract of Serenoa repens (LSESr) markedly inhibited both isozymes (Ki (type 1) = 8.4 nM and 7.2 micrograms/ml, respectively; Ki (type 2) = 7.4 nM and 4.9 micrograms/ml, respectively). The three azasteroids were competitive inhibitors vs substrate, whereas LSESr displayed non-competitive inhibition of the type 1 isozyme and uncompetitive inhibition of the type 2 isozyme. These observations suggest that the lipid component of LSESr might be responsible for its inhibitory effect by modulating the membrane environment of 5 alpha-reductase. Partially purified recombinant 5 alpha-reductase type 1 activity was preserved by the presence of lipids indicating that lipids can exert either stimulatory or inhibitory effects on human 5 alpha-reductase.


sounds like its a 5AR inhibitor to me....

 

[HairlossTalk]

Just because something is a 5ar inhibitor does not mean it works for hair loss, nor does it mean that it is the right *type* of 5ar inhibitor.

Saw Palmetto is a is a very weak and ineffective inhibitor of the type of 5ar which affects hair loss, and a very potent inhibitor of the *OTHER* type which is predominantly in the Prostate.

This is why studies like the one above show great results on Prostatic regions but there to this day remains not a single legit study for it working on hair loss.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[Guest]

but it showed to be inhibitory of both types.
hence:

the lipido-sterol extract of Serenoa repens (LSESr) markedly inhibited both isozymes (Ki (type 1) = 8.4 nM and 7.2 micrograms/ml, respectively; Ki (type 2) = 7.4 nM and 4.9 micrograms/ml, respectively).

finasteride inhibited type 2 shown by Ki = 7.3 and 21.7 nM
SP " " 4.9 and 7.4nM

its not as good as finesteride according to this study but it does inhibit both isoforms of 5AR unless there are others not mentioned here...

does the type 2 isoform of 5AR cause the type 2 DHT?