Ru|minoxidil|nizoral|saw Palmetto|green Tea|vitd

[RegenWaiting]

Hello everybody!

I started losing my hair at approx 20ys, and have experienced a relatively aggressive form of Androgenetic Alopecia.

During the many years since then I have tried both finasteride and minoxidil (4-5 months) together, but with
no or non-significant results. I have always taken pictures, so this is not subjective (you'll have to take my word for it, I guess).

So...I have been shaving my head for some time during this period.

Now, many years later when we're on the brink(anticipating 2 years max) of the release of new treatments(Shiseido and Follica mostly in my mind), I have put together a strategy for my hair and decided to go all in for one last stand against Androgenetic Alopecia.

1. I wanted to save every last strand that I could potentially immunize with Shiseido, which would then give me further options(FUE)(worst case) with a peace of mind regarding further loss.
2. Because I'm already shaving my head regularly, topicals make most sense(efficacy-side effects), and the hassle probably won't go on for very long (timeframe for new treatments). 2 years is nothing, and like said...I'm shaving it anyway.
3. Even if new treatments don't pan out, I have nothing to lose (will know in short time), so side-effect wise I won't go on forever.
4. If my results show good promise, new tech for applying topicals 'with' hair on my head could make it more practical for me afterall. (Shaved head is best for efficacy). (Follicas applicator in mind)

RU - I always 3rd party test it in local farmacy, but there is some things you can do yourself do minimize the chance of not having 'the real thing':
- Melting point 101 celsius (put it in the oven and check out the melting point) Should not melt of you put oven to 95 celsius, and should start melting at 105.
- Water solubility (0,4 mg/mL) approx. (Take 5mg and put it in 10ml - if it dissolves it's not RU) (This is an example)
- Ethanol solubility (250mg/mL) (Try and dissolve almost or 200mg in 1 mL - it should still mostly dissolve)

Kirkland minoxidil 5%

I mix 300mg of RU in 15mL of minoxidil. That equals 2% RU, one application per day, 15 days batch. (Last me some more because I apply 0.9mL).

Saw Palmetto - also 3rd party tested for enough amount of sterols and extracts (80-95%). 160mg 2x ED(every day).

Green tea - 3rd party tested for right amount of claimed ingredients (take it morning and night with Saw Palmetto)

VitD3 - Every day after breakfast

Nizoral 2% - 2x per week, leave it on for 5 mins in the shower.

My days are mostly routine-based, and I apply RU/minoxidil in the morning when I get up, then I eat breakfast and go workout. My theory is that during workout, pores open(temp regulating-sweat) and minoxidil/RU are better absorbed. Approx 3-4hours later when I'm home...I shower. minoxidil absorbs cirka 90% during first 3-4 hours.

Results: pictures are taken at 0 months (start) and at 3 months exactly. Pictures are taken with exactly same hair lenght, same camera, same time of day and with same clothes etc for contrast.

Will update at 6 months.

Cheers all!

 

[DHTpolice]

Looks thicker, but can be better, I think. But why do use Saw palmeto instead of finasteride/dutasteride? And, please, drop the green tea extract, it is a snake oil.

 

[RegenWaiting]

Looks thicker, but can be better, I think. But why do use Saw palmeto instead of finasteride/dutasteride? And, please, drop the green tea extract, it is a snake oil.

Hi to you

Thank you for your input.

Everything can always be better, that's of course true. I'd of course be the happiest if able to make even more gains - but(!), at what cost?
We're all different on this subject as it's highly subjective... so to me; this is a (partial)success, part of a long-term strategy aformentioned in OP.
Plan is to add dermaneedling, but I have to make a good scientifically oriented/weighted plan about it. Also, hard to tell what's working if taking the kitchen sink appr from start. Owndocs derminator has already arrived.

I don't take green tea for hair only, but am a fan of it regardless...and, to my knowledge it could only help the cause.

Cheers

 

[CopeForLife]

I have the exact same pattern like you had on a 3-month mark. So it was a baseline when I popped a first fina pill.

NW3 + diffuse all over in NW5-6 pattern.

Nothing had changed after almost a year on finasteride. Still diffused forelock and disgusting receded temples.

GL anyway

 

[RegenWaiting]

I have the exact same pattern like you had on a 3-month mark. So it was a baseline when I popped a first fina pill.

NW3 + diffuse all over in NW5-6 pattern.

Nothing had changed after almost a year on finasteride. Still diffused forelock and disgusting receded temples.

GL anyway

Thank you for input and good wishes!

I get you man, it's hard indeed. The hardest part is that it's mostly out of our (reasonable)control.

Anyway, this ''last shot'' of mine is about not having any regrets if/when Shiseido/Follica launches. In that sense, I can say that ''I still have hope'', but I'm not relying on it ofc. Would be unbearable if Shiseido launched and I *could* have had hair, but end up with nothing to immunize due to lameness. I'm shaving every 3 days anyways, so it takes me literally 1 min in the morning. The reasons I didn't start earlier are

- Uncertainty for how long until better options and the longer hair-topicals efficacy paradox
- Side effects of long term use

I had tried microdosing on fina before, but gyno signs and mild ED had me scared to sh*t.

Hope there's a better future for you too.

 

[ALightInTheDark]

Man,you should add Zinc 220mg orally,
For temples : Estrogen cream 1 to twice a week ,Dermaneedling (until ertyhema) once a week and LiCl right after that (15mL on each temples) and 5min session UVB lamp (not the same day as wounding.)

Thank me later

 

[SteveTabernack]

That's some high level photo taking skills, well done. Scammers wish they could have photos like that hah.

Looks significantly better, keep it up.

 

[hwezdarik]

I think you should add finasteride again .. 4 months is not enough... U seem not to have any side effects and clearly you are a good responder to AA ! Nice results so far !

 

[Trichosan]

@RegenWaiting, could I ask where you purchase the RU? Also, those are perfect photographs. Far better than some that are used to demonstrate professional, scientific experiments. You show positive results with your treatment. Best of luck going forward.

 

[RegenWaiting]

Man,you should add Zinc 220mg orally,
For temples : Estrogen cream 1 to twice a week ,Dermaneedling (until ertyhema) once a week and LiCl right after that (15mL on each temples) and 5min session UVB lamp (not the same day as wounding.)

Thank me later

Hi

Yea...as you can surely imagine, I'm very conservative/careful with my approach, and am generally like this in life - treading carefully and analyzing what works etc.

I can't imagine I would risk doing estro ever though, as I'm too afraid of the consequences.
I have already purchased derminator and plan on incorporating dermaneedling, but if I were to rush it, it would be confined to one side of temples only (only sure way of measuring significance in my case).
UVB is taken care of(see signature) as I live in highly cloudy conditions in that time-period. Also supplement with vitD3.

That's some high level photo taking skills, well done. Scammers wish they could have photos like that hah.

Looks significantly better, keep it up.

Thanks man!

Getting me motivated there, haha. Actually, the pictures were taken with a cell phone camera(iPhone 5s) which I have since ditched for a newer version, but have continued to take pics with the 5s because of the validity of photos. I'm very rigid in that sense ;P

I think you should add finasteride again .. 4 months is not enough... U seem not to have any side effects and clearly you are a good responder to AA ! Nice results so far !

Thanks you! I try...

Actually, I was on fina microdose for roughly 5 months a couple years ago. Split the 1mg in 4 pcs, and tok those 0,25mg every 3rd day. There's one famous ''curve'' of dose/response of fina, and knowing the half-life, it made sense. I was misfortunate however, as my ED was not only in my head, but my girlfriend noticed too after appr 3-4 months. You can understand why I had to ''move on'', I'm sure...

RU is an AR antagonist, and in theory(!) if one is careful enough with dose, it shouldn't do much else than attach to the right recepetors and hindering the usual biological response that takes place in the cells. If you overdo it, RU will have to many molecules that finds themselves unattached, and will find a way to blood(not good-sides).

Therefore the ideal thing would be to have blood test after a week, 3 months to be sure, but not many have such ''reliable'' physicians.

@RegenWaiting, could I ask where you purchase the RU? Also, those are perfect photographs. Far better than some that are used to demonstrate professional, scientific experiments. You show positive results with your treatment. Best of luck going forward.

Thanks very much! I always wanted to do this, but couldn't justify it with my many situational factors of life/hair and study progress. If I had upgraded my cell phone earlier, they'd be even better, but it does it's job.

That's what I'm most happy about this..the results. Not that they are spectacular, but that they atleast show. It given me evidence, and objective incentive to puch on further with it. If I hadn't had those pics...honestly...I don't know if I would've noticed. Hair grows slooowly

I got my RU from Kane. Tested it at local pharmacy, and it was what was claimed.
But if you don't have connections or in any way can't test it(which I highly recommend on always doing), then there are atleast *some* things you could do yourself. I wrote about this earlier in thread. Anyways - test it if you can. This is not to be taken lightly - imo.
One more thing - do try finasteridef first if you haven't - my suggestion.

Best luck to you, also, whatever your strategy is!

 

[inmyhead]

Hi

Yea...as you can surely imagine, I'm very conservative/careful with my approach, and am generally like this in life - treading carefully and analyzing what works etc.

I can't imagine I would risk doing estro ever though, as I'm too afraid of the consequences.
I have already purchased derminator and plan on incorporating dermaneedling, but if I were to rush it, it would be confined to one side of temples only (only sure way of measuring significance in my case).
UVB is taken care of(see signature) as I live in highly cloudy conditions in that time-period. Also supplement with vitD3.





Thanks man!

Getting me motivated there, haha. Actually, the pictures were taken with a cell phone camera(iPhone 5s) which I have since ditched for a newer version, but have continued to take pics with the 5s because of the validity of photos. I'm very rigid in that sense ;P




Thanks you! I try...

Actually, I was on fina microdose for roughly 5 months a couple years ago. Split the 1mg in 4 pcs, and tok those 0,25mg every 3rd day. There's one famous ''curve'' of dose/response of fina, and knowing the half-life, it made sense. I was misfortunate however, as my ED was not only in my head, but my girlfriend noticed too after appr 3-4 months. You can understand why I had to ''move on'', I'm sure...

RU is an AR antagonist, and in theory(!) if one is careful enough with dose, it shouldn't do much else than attach to the right recepetors and hindering the usual biological response that takes place in the cells. If you overdo it, RU will have to many molecules that finds themselves unattached, and will find a way to blood(not good-sides).

Therefore the ideal thing would be to have blood test after a week, 3 months to be sure, but not many have such ''reliable'' physicians.



Thanks very much! I always wanted to do this, but couldn't justify it with my many situational factors of life/hair and study progress. If I had upgraded my cell phone earlier, they'd be even better, but it does it's job.

That's what I'm most happy about this..the results. Not that they are spectacular, but that they atleast show. It given me evidence, and objective incentive to puch on further with it. If I hadn't had those pics...honestly...I don't know if I would've noticed. Hair grows slooowly

I got my RU from Kane. Tested it at local pharmacy, and it was what was claimed.
But if you don't have connections or in any way can't test it(which I highly recommend on always doing), then there are atleast *some* things you could do yourself. I wrote about this earlier in thread. Anyways - test it if you can. This is not to be taken lightly - imo.
One more thing - do try finasteridef first if you haven't - my suggestion.

Best luck to you, also, whatever your strategy is!

HI, how is your derminator? is it easy to use?

 

[Eren]

I have the exact same pattern like you had on a 3-month mark. So it was a baseline when I popped a first fina pill.

NW3 + diffuse all over in NW5-6 pattern.

Nothing had changed after almost a year on finasteride. Still diffused forelock and disgusting receded temples.

GL anyway

So finasteride did do nothing at all for your hair? That really sucks man. I hear it all too often lately, guys saying finasteride did nothing for their hair. I guess it isn't as good as I initially thought. Did it slow down/halt your hair loss?

I am a guy who always complains about his hair. I almost have obsessive thoughts about it. If finasteride would not have worked for me... then I would be truly clueless as to what I'd have to do to get rid of those thoughts. I still am lol.

Hair loss during teens/early twenties makes life very difficult, psychologically. How do you deal with it?

 

[CopeForLife]

So finasteride did do nothing at all for your hair? That really sucks man. I hear it all to often lately, guys saying finasteride did nothing for their hair. I guess it isn't as good as I initially thought. Did it slow down/halt your hair loss?

I am a guy who always complains about his hair. I almost have obsessive thoughts about it. If finasteride would not have worked for me... then I would be truly clueless as to what I'd have to do to get rid of those thoughts. I still am lol.

Hair loss during teens/early twenties makes life very difficult, psychologically. How do you deal with it?

I still have a thick NW3 so probably I should say thanks to finasteride

I got used to it since I had ~NW3 from early teens and till nowadays (mid 20-s). Started very aggressively but it slowed up eventually. Many of baldcels have it worse.

 

[JeanLucBB]

I still have a thick NW3 so probably I should say thanks to finasteride

I got used to it since I had ~NW3 from early teens and till nowadays (mid 20-s). Started very aggressively but it slowed up eventually. Many of baldcels have it worse.

NW3 is still pretty horrific, my transplant has taken me to slightly less than a norwood 2 from there and I'm still not entirely happy. At least I look like a normal f*****g human being now. Thought I'd be satisfied, but hairloss is an assfucking at anything above a norwood 1 at a reasonably low height.

 

[CopeForLife]

NW3 is still pretty horrific, my transplant has taken me to slightly less than a norwood 2 from there and I'm still not entirely happy. At least I look like a normal f*****g human being now. Thought I'd be satisfied, but hairloss is an assfucking at anything above a norwood 1 at a reasonably low height.

I have the same hairline as you before hair transplant. Just thick NW3 with a dickhead in front

 

[RegenWaiting]

HI, how is your derminator? is it easy to use?

Hello man,

Well, tbh I can't say that I have any reference points for the derminator because I haven't really tried any other
similar product before.

Still, it's nothing more or less than what I initially expected from the information gathered from their website,
so in this regard - I must say I'm at the very least satisfied with how it works.

Since 1 week, I have started a trial on my right temple, where I ''derminate'' the area at 0,25mm depth
until moderate erythema, so I would mention a couple of findings/details I have noticed from this experience:

- Pain wise it's probably just as painful/less as a dermaroller if identical treatment is to be accomplished
- Depth of needle penetration is much better controlled compared to dermarollers, which translates to higher rigidness
of the trial and therefore also it's credibility (a lot of people do a lot of guesswork on this one ie push this hard etc)
- It's a little bit louder than you would have expected (no biggie really)
- It's very practical in terms of speed of treatment and cleanign/disinfecting

I must add; in my (brief) experience of ''derminating'', the depth of penetration is being guessed too much on this forum.
Have started off with 0,25 for a reason (tried 0,5mm, but drew blood straight away). Even now with full penetration at 0,25mm
a little blood on my temple shows. So...either one size(depth) does not fit all or a lot of people are doing it very differently. In
this sense derminator functions as a standardizing tool, which is a good thing.

Will run the trial for 3 months, and then update the results of original treatment (whole scalp) at 6 months, and share also share
the dermaneedling results at 3 months (same time) with minoxidil application 24 hours later.
More on this when the time comes.

Cheers

 

[inmyhead]

Hello man,

Well, tbh I can't say that I have any reference points for the derminator because I haven't really tried any other
similar product before.

Still, it's nothing more or less than what I initially expected from the information gathered from their website,
so in this regard - I must say I'm at the very least satisfied with how it works.

Since 1 week, I have started a trial on my right temple, where I ''derminate'' the area at 0,25mm depth
until moderate erythema, so I would mention a couple of findings/details I have noticed from this experience:

- Pain wise it's probably just as painful/less as a dermaroller if identical treatment is to be accomplished
- Depth of needle penetration is much better controlled compared to dermarollers, which translates to higher rigidness
of the trial and therefore also it's credibility (a lot of people do a lot of guesswork on this one ie push this hard etc)
- It's a little bit louder than you would have expected (no biggie really)
- It's very practical in terms of speed of treatment and cleanign/disinfecting

I must add; in my (brief) experience of ''derminating'', the depth of penetration is being guessed too much on this forum.
Have started off with 0,25 for a reason (tried 0,5mm, but drew blood straight away). Even now with full penetration at 0,25mm
a little blood on my temple shows. So...either one size(depth) does not fit all or a lot of people are doing it very differently. In
this sense derminator functions as a standardizing tool, which is a good thing.

Will run the trial for 3 months, and then update the results of original treatment (whole scalp) at 6 months, and share also share
the dermaneedling results at 3 months (same time) with minoxidil application 24 hours later.
More on this when the time comes.

Cheers

thank you for your reply. So you are not using it on your whole had? Do you think it would be possible to use it for diffuse thinner? I'm seriously considering it, but I'm just not sure if it just won't pull all my other hair while using it on whole scalp

 

[RegenWaiting]

thank you for your reply. So you are not using it on your whole had? Do you think it would be possible to use it for diffuse thinner? I'm seriously considering it, but I'm just not sure if it just won't pull all my other hair while using it on whole scalp

No, I'm not using it on my whole head. There are several reason for that, some of them being that:

1) Since I'm already running the original trial on whole head, adding the dermaneedling only to a confined surface(right temple)
is the only way of telling for sure the potential added value of dermeneedling
2) I have chosen the surface of the right temple with your second question in mind; because I don't have any hair
there at all...so I have nothing to lose, and will clearly notice potential neogenesis of hair follicles
3) Really, it's not that easy to be precise in dermaneedling youself on the vertex, and for that to be
optimal, you'd have to have someone do it for you (this goes for the middle scalp also)

I'm sure you understand now that I cannot give you a straight answer on that second question, because I
myself am not sure. The only thing I can do is have an (educated) guess. But if I were in your shoes,
I would think in a pros/cons way of what can you gain vs potentially lose. In the end, you make the choice,
just like me.

If you do make the decision to proceed though, I would advice you to be conservative with depth. There
are also several medical reasons for this beyond just anticipated result.

I wish I had a definite answer though, but I just don't. In three months we'll atleast know a bit more
than we do today(my personal trial), and maybe, just maybe...we'll get some new info before that
at the Hair Congress.

Cheers man