Religion and Balding?

[Hotlegs]

HELP!!! I can't silence the voices in my head...pleeeasssee I beg your forgiveness. Meerrrcyyy meerrrcy pleeeaseee!!!!!

 

[tzed2]

Belief in God, an after life, a heaven, a saviour and the many other core facets of organized religion is an example of that finest of human traits, selfishness.

You pay into your faith scheme with daily prayer and belief in the knowledge that when it comes to payout time at the gates of heaven you will be rewarded with entry and those who where non-believers will be cast down into the firey furnace of hell.

Religion is about looking after number one, always has been.

So this diety that created us may be omnipotent but a character flaw means he still needs to be validated by his creations with regular prayer and their adhering to his various rules. The deal being that those who drop to their knees and (quite literally) beg not to be burnt for ever in the after life will get eternal joy in heaven the rest can go f*** themselves in etenal pain, after all they didn't beg on a regular basis.

God is a fiction, my hope is that mankind will eventually evolve past this stage in our growth and learn to live together and develop into what we can be, not the savages that believe in god.

And as for war and religion! Are you f*****g blind!

EDIT: After I posted this message a shaft of light dropped from my portait of the virgen Mary. I heard a voice say REPENT!!! I am shaking like a leaf as I type this...will you all hold hands now and pray for me?

Your bang on man. Nicely put. I've always said that the next stage of human devlopement will be removal of religion. I hope we will be laughed at in the future. Wishfull thinking?

 

[Cheyenne Press]

Couldn't disagree with many of you more on this forum.

Jesus even says in the scriptures that he has come to free man from the law, and yet we keep reading posts about religion being all about following rules.

So religion has been all about watching out for numero uno, and yet the Bible stresses humility and concern for one's neighbor above all else. Yet we still see posts like those above, despite the fact that on a local or global scale, religiosity is directly correlated to charitability. The more religious a society, the more its people give to others, through both sacred and secular charities.

A very basic element of the scriptures is that none of us deserve to stand beside our creator, as we have all wronged our fellow men on one occasion or another. It is through grace (not by obeying rules) that we are forgiven and reunited with God.

This is Christianity 101. I'm not sure where some of you have this negative perception of faith, but I don't think it's justified by anything in the life of Christ.

Having stood beside those who treated the ill and neglected in South America, who have assisted those with AIDS in Africa, who built homes for the needy, who taught English to those who could not find a job, I have to disagree that the essence of religion is selfishness. I also have to disagree that organized religion is a bain upon our society.

When no one else did anything, the acts of these men reflect something entirely different.

But as to the proof of it all, I'd suggest simply examing the historical record. Something indeed was going on in the First-century, when a religion spread so quickly, when eye-witnesses travelled throughout the world, giving up all they had, to teach a message. Which they made up? I doubt it.

 

[daedalus]

I apologize if this is a long post, but I just wanted to reply to some comments.

Religion itself is not creating wars , it doesnt say in the bible or in any religion to go take someones life or start war, its the persons choice / decision. It actually is the opposite. I havent really seen anywhere lately about christians/catholics at a war with anyone ... we're in fricking America.. There is organized religion because its true ... no ones making up facts .. no one made up the bible

Why is Christianity or Catholicism any more "true" than the other religions? You are accepting what someone has told you without thinking for yourself. Why is the Bible such an authority? It was written by men, just like me and you. By relying on the Bible, you are depending on someone else for your spirituality. True enlightenment comes from within each person, not from any external source.

And when you say "How can you organize life into anything?" what does that even mean??

Life, or truth, or whatever you want to call it is limitless, unconditioned, unstructured, and constantly changing. Once you try to organize it, you have crystallized it, killed it. You have created barriers and limitations.

Subjects like mathematics or science can be organized in this manner, but no organization can lead you to spirituality.

You pay into your faith scheme with daily prayer and belief in the knowledge that when it comes to payout time at the gates of heaven you will be rewarded with entry and those who where non-believers will be cast down into the firey furnace of hell.

Exactly. A large part of religion is instilling fear.

Jesus even says in the scriptures that he has come to free man from the law, and yet we keep reading posts about religion being all about following rules.

Religion has created a structure of authority, that basically says only certain people hold the key to the kingdom of enlightenment. And if you want that key, you have to listen to what we say. But no one has the authority to hold that key. It exists within each person.

I'm not sure where some of you have this negative perception of faith, but I don't think it's justified by anything in the life of Christ.

In case you hadn't noticed, we are at war right now largely due to faith. What makes the Christian faith any more righteous than Islam?

Something indeed was going on in the First-century, when a religion spread so quickly, when eye-witnesses travelled throughout the world, giving up all they had, to teach a message. Which they made up? I doubt it.

Christ discovered love and compassion and he wanted to express that. But his followers did not truly discover that truth, they just gathered the outer details and converted them into rituals. Then there was disagreement over how these rituals would be performed, which created Catholics and Protestants.

Both of these groups claim to be Christians, yet they have been fighting and killing each other in Ireland for decades. How can someone who claims to be a true Christian kill another man in the name of religion?

Religion clearly divides man and leads to violence. In order for real change to happen in society, it must happen within each individual.

 

[mrlestat]

.
Knowledge will eventually replace faith. Religions/ mythology stem from a fear of the unknown, it is simply an easy answer.. The Aztecs, the ancient greeks, the romans, the jews, the hindus, the buddhists, the scientologists, the christians, the fijian sun god, the muslims etc etc etc all have different versions of the same deception.. At best one religion is right considering their conflicting nature in reality they're all wrong...

A 13 billion year old universe explained by a 2000 year old bible... Please..

With all that said a faith system can be a very positive structure for life.....

 

[drinkrum]

One of you mods, can you please close this thread or move it elsewhere?

D.

 

[Hotlegs]

One of you mods, can you please close this thread or move it elsewhere?

D.

send it to hell.

Religion is a self-serving constuct, it is the height of human greed, we will eventualy be rid of it's cancer on mans growth, we will live in peace (if such a thing can exist?).

Religion and nationality do not cause war they are war.

I am pro-peace, anti-greed, anti-god.

 

[daedalus]

Religion is a self-serving constuct, it is the height of human greed, we will eventualy be rid of it's cancer on mans growth, we will live in peace (if such a thing can exist?).

You're absolutely right guest. Religion is the most selfish of human concepts. When someone says they are a Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, American, Englishman, or anything else, they are breeding violence.

It is violent because it separates that person from the rest of mankind. Someone who is truly interested in the totality of mankind will never identify themselves through religion, nationality, or any other group which divides man.

I also hope that we will eventually be rid of religion.

 

[The Gardener]

Couldn't disagree with many of you more on this forum.

Jesus even says in the scriptures that he has come to free man from the law, and yet we keep reading posts about religion being all about following rules.

So religion has been all about watching out for numero uno, and yet the Bible stresses humility and concern for one's neighbor above all else. Yet we still see posts like those above, despite the fact that on a local or global scale, religiosity is directly correlated to charitability. The more religious a society, the more its people give to others, through both sacred and secular charities.

A very basic element of the scriptures is that none of us deserve to stand beside our creator, as we have all wronged our fellow men on one occasion or another. It is through grace (not by obeying rules) that we are forgiven and reunited with God.

This is Christianity 101. I'm not sure where some of you have this negative perception of faith, but I don't think it's justified by anything in the life of Christ.

Having stood beside those who treated the ill and neglected in South America, who have assisted those with AIDS in Africa, who built homes for the needy, who taught English to those who could not find a job, I have to disagree that the essence of religion is selfishness. I also have to disagree that organized religion is a bain upon our society.

When no one else did anything, the acts of these men reflect something entirely different.

But as to the proof of it all, I'd suggest simply examing the historical record. Something indeed was going on in the First-century, when a religion spread so quickly, when eye-witnesses travelled throughout the world, giving up all they had, to teach a message. Which they made up? I doubt it.

AMEN BROTHER! I'm a Christian, agree 110% with everything you say, and think that Christianity's image has been distorted well beyond what it really is about. I could not agree with you MORE on every point you make.

Christianity is all about making one's self a better person, period. It is about having a good rapport with God (and, NO, I do NOT believe that God is a man sitting on a chair in the clouds, or in space, or whatever) and getting in tune with humanity, the human experience, and your personal experience, and how the former interacts effectively with the latter.

 

[mrlestat]

.
The amount of atheists on these forums has renewed my faith in mankind :wink: .

 

[drinkrum]

Religion is a self-serving constuct, it is the height of human greed, we will eventualy be rid of it's cancer on mans growth, we will live in peace (if such a thing can exist?).

You're absolutely right guest. Religion is the most selfish of human concepts. When someone says they are a Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, American, Englishman, or anything else, they are breeding violence.

It is violent because it separates that person from the rest of mankind. Someone who is truly interested in the totality of mankind will never identify themselves through religion, nationality, or any other group which divides man.

I also hope that we will eventually be rid of religion.

By the way, hinduism isn't a religion -- it's a philosophy. One can still be hindu and be Christian, etc.

D.

 

[Hotlegs]

Christianity is all about making one's self a better person, period.

Yes, this is true, the main drives of religious devotion are to gain advantage for yourself in both life and the 'afterlife'.

self-serving.

It is about having a good rapport with God (and, NO, I do NOT believe that God is a man sitting on a chair in the clouds, or in space, or whatever) and getting in tune with humanity, the human experience, and your personal experience, and how the former interacts effectively with the latter.

what is god?

 

[oni]

I love Satan and I have sold my soul to get my hair back but I have shafted Satan because I had already pawned my soul for a new TV do you think Satan will be upset?

I do really care about Satan but he can sometimes demand too many sacrifices and virgins and goats are in short supply. :roll:

 

[The Gardener]

Christianity is all about making one's self a better person, period.

Yes, this is true, the main drives of religious devotion are to gain advantage for yourself in both life and the 'afterlife'. self-serving.

No, it is not about 'gaining advantage' for yourself. It is about finding the peace in a world that is inexplicably crazy and chaotic.

what is god?

The initial source of all energy that makes earth and the universe go. Scientists have excellent explanations as to how things got from one form to another, explaining how the earth was formed from space dust, etc., and how life on earth has evolved into the form it takes now.

However, scientists have yet to explain where this initial energy all came from. And, how is it that matter is formed into neat little atoms? Have you ever comprehended the beauty of atomic science, electrons and protons and such, and subatomic particles? If there were no source of order in the universe, one would think that the formation of matter would have been more random, and not nearly as elegant as it is.

As to what specific characteristics God may have.. well, I would never be so arrogant to believe that God is a man. God is something far beyond the limited comprehension of my human brain.

 

[Hotlegs]

Christianity is all about making one's self a better person, period.

Yes, this is true, the main drives of religious devotion are to gain advantage for yourself in both life and the 'afterlife'. self-serving.

No, it is not about 'gaining advantage' for yourself. It is about finding the peace in a world that is inexplicably crazy and chaotic.

This 'found peace' is for yourself.

what is god?

However, scientists have yet to explain where this initial energy all came from.

Because science cannot explain the origins of matter, order or any of the forces does not therefore mean it was created on the whim of an omnipotent being.

As to what specific characteristics God may have.. well, I would never be so arrogant to believe that God is a man. God is something far beyond the limited comprehension of my human brain.

And yet you 'know' god exists ?

 

[THOR]

See you in Hell!!

Man, I usually don’t make much noise on this site, but this topic is indeed intriguing.

Most things I wanted to add have already been brought forward in a logical manner by my fellow atheists.

I would however like to state a few things in regards to Christianity.
As I am of Scandinavian descent I have learned most things there is to know about the Nordic mythology. Today we consider this mythology that a saga, a fairytale and a myth. The rational is that we today posses the scientific knowledge to explain much of the phenomenon that creates lightning, thunder, rain and sunshine. Today, only a fool would believe that Thor actually threw a sledge hammer to create lightning, when science proved it was electrically charged storm systems. For some reason this makes sense to a Christian, but not the very fact that science has proven that you can not part the sea or walk upon water or have fish rain from the sky. Still, Christianity is considered a valid religion and the Nordic mythology a “cuteâ€￾ story from the past.

Regardless of the above I also wonder why God refuses to make this world a better place. Why not end all the speculations with a 10 minute demonstration. He could reveal himself and let us know that there really is just one true religion and only one true way to heaven (through him). Perform that one miracle that we all could see and believe. For a man (or whatever it is) that created the world in 7 days this should be an easy task. He could end thousands of years of speculation, war and suffering with just 10 minutes of work. At this point even God must realize that his marketing skills have left much to wish for. Despite bloody crusades and all Christian channels that pledge for money in order to spread the “wordâ€￾, only 1/3 of this world believes in his message. That would have kicked even Mr. Trump out the window with no parachute.

Does the lack of acceptance derive from the fact that we were given a free mind and the ability to think for ourselves? Probably, but unfortunately we are punished with a life in hell if we chose to use our minds and reject his message. (Thanks for that exquisite choice by the way).

So the question remains, why is it so difficult for God to move on and forget about how and why we screwed up. If he (it) is all forgiving and truly want to see a world in peace, step up to the damn plate and deliver your magic. Until then I’m afraid that even a hair loss forum will debate your existence.//Thor

 

[goingoinbutnotgone]

Re: See you in Hell!!

Regardless of the above I also wonder why God refuses to make this world a better place. Why not end all the speculations with a 10 minute demonstration.

He could reveal himself and let us know that there really is just one true religion and only one true way to heaven (through him). Perform that one miracle that we all could see and believe. For a man (or whatever it is) that created the world in 7 days this should be an easy task. He could end thousands of years of speculation, war and suffering with just 10 minutes of work
[/color]

He did that and they killed him.

 

[The Gardener]

I think you are the ones who don't get it.

God is not some 'omnipotent being' who sits in a chair in the clouds and punches buttons to make life easy for you. It is from the struggle that one learns the truth. Personally, the use of the word 'being' implicitly assumes that God is a man, and I do not think that God is a human.

Life is what it is, as a result of the actions of people on earth who don't understand how to properly direct the energy within them.

The problem is that too many people have no regard for their fellow humans, or for humanity. This is what causes the problems in the world, basically, a lack of love and a lack of respect or appreciation for the power that each person has within them.

The God I know doesn't want to force people to make 'good' choices. He wants us to be knowledgeable to make these choices for ourselves, and sometimes this requires adversity. All Jesus tried to say is that YOU have power and the potential to love. Get in touch with what is truly right and wrong, for you, and for those around you, and direct your power and love accordingly. That is the MAIN point of the New Testament in layman's terms. What is so threatening about it? It is not about blindly worshipping some dictator, it is about appreciating 'the creation', which basically is code for you and me and the planet and the things we hold dear... and it is about YOU taking responsibility for the interactions that you have within this.

 

[Hotlegs]

I think you are the ones who don't get it.

God is not some 'omnipotent being' who sits in a chair in the clouds and punches buttons to make life easy for you. It is from the struggle that one learns the truth. Personally, the use of the word 'being' implicitly assumes that God is a man, and I do not think that God is a human.

You don't need to dwell on this idea that god is not a man I really don't think anyone here thinks god is a man.

Life is what it is, as a result of the actions of people on earth who don't understand how to properly direct the energy within them.

Excusing the 'energy within' (whatever that means) this is about right. Religion is not needed to explain that.

The problem is that too many people have no regard for their fellow humans, or for humanity. This is what causes the problems in the world, basically, a lack of love and a lack of respect or appreciation for the power that each person has within them.

True, the worst offenders being the corporate, religious, greed driven, selfish hordes harvesting both resources and morality for themselves.

The God I know..

how do you 'know this 'god'?

...doesn't want to force people to make 'good' choices. He wants us to be knowledgeable to make these choices for ourselves, and sometimes this requires adversity.

And this adversity involves a life of misery, pain, humiliation, heartbreak, poverty and desperation for tens of millions of his poor creatures, if they fail to follow the correct rituals during this desperate life, they are cast down amongst the dammed and burn for eternity.

This to me is the description of a monster, adolf hitler could, by your description, be described as a god and I am sure to many of his victims he was omnipotent, showing them misery and finally ending there days in flames.

And how do you know this is what your god wants?

All Jesus tried to say is that YOU have power and the potential to love. Get in touch with what is truly right and wrong, for you, and for those around you, and direct your power and love accordingly. That is the MAIN point of the New Testament in layman's terms. What is so threatening about it? It is not about blindly worshipping some dictator, it is about appreciating 'the creation', which basically is code for you and me and the planet and the things we hold dear... and it is about YOU taking responsibility for the interactions that you have within this.

You conviently jump form the New Testement to the personal and miss out the 20 centurys of mayhem and chaos this plan has brought on man.

Please wake up.

If your god exists and your jesus then wake up and look for signs of your devil, try and sniff out the burning bodies.

 

[hokiehair]

Yep, religion causes problems because it's rooted in dis-validation...

When there's more than one religion, then the simple act of someone believing in one religion undermines the validity of another religion. It has to.