Raz's Story: Big 3: Nw4v --> Nw1.5ish

Raz

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Raz's story (Big 3: Norwood 3.5 diffuse --> Norwood 1.5ish)

Note: there's a lot of text in here, so I am using spoiler-tags pretty liberally to make for a more pleasant viewing experience!

Hey guys, Raz here! Thanks for checking out my thread. I'm a mid-20s caucasian male from Finland who has been doing the "big three" (Finasteride, Minoxidil, Ketoconazole) very successfully for a few years. Everything is explained in more detail under the spoiler tags. Feel free to comment and ask questions - all kind of feedback is welcome! :)

Intro:

At the time of originally posting this topic, I was a NW3.5v/NW4ish with additional diffuse thinning in the crown. (To be precise: I had a NW3 hairline with the vertex having a bald spot as is the case with NW3v, but I also had a lot of additional diffuse thinning which annihilated any density on the top and kind of destroyed the forelock and the NW3/4 area so badly that I looked closer to a NW4 in my opinion).

I researched every possibility for a long *** time before getting on any treatment - seeing as I noticed balding issues by 2009 and only got on treatments in 2013. It certainly didn't help me that people around me were either: "lol it's just hair, don't worry, be confident bro!!!", or telling me there was pretty much nothing to do and that I shouldn't care - and that everything is "snake oil".

Well, perhaps mostly everything is - but it's these kind of attitudes that made me lose a lot of time anyway. That is exactly what you do not want to hear. It can make you fall into depression and slowly accept there is nothing to do, because you don't know any better. Time is also everything in combating hair loss - the earlier you get on treatment, the better.

Therefore, a big f*** you to every individual, organization and institution who kept me in the dark with bad intentions. They should definitely teach about hair loss to young men (and women alike) at some point into the schooling system. This is devastating stuff indeed. Well, I hope my thread can help people in some capacity, whether it be giving hope or showing someone that there is something out there that one can do to combat hair loss.

So, that being said - I am currently doing a lot better (when it comes to my hair situation), so if you're interested in seeing how my quest for reclaiming my hair is going; read further into this thread and you'll see a link which links you to my most recent status update!

Background Story:

- Started balding at 19.5~, give or take a month.

- Went from a Norwood 1 to NW3v in 6-8 months, sporting a NW3-buzzcut on my 20th birthday (and having had a flawless NW1, effeminate haircut on my 19th...lol).

- Gave up on my hair upon turning 20 and having to go to the army (conscription), wherein I would have to have short hair anyway.

- Realized the hair loss is not getting any worse (or better), despite the initial aggression of it.

- Spent ages 21, 22 and the start of 23 thinking if my hair loss was lifestyle/diet -related in all of my naivety (the famous "denial phase" - despite my family having a history of male pattern baldness).

- Realized I had only gone up by like 0.25 to 0.5 at worst on the Norwood scale, during ages 20-23, so while it hadn't been 5+ years of follical inactivity yet; I decided to start combatting hair loss.

- Started combating hair loss at 23.5~ years old, being a NW3.5~ diffuse thinner, after 4 years from the onset of male pattern baldness.

Regimen in Detail:


-Finasteride: (1.25mg per day): August 2013-October 2015 & September 2016-present. Hopped on this all guns blazing, meaning no "0.5mg a day" -slow starts or anything, just 1.25mg a day. No sides, except I needed to go pee all the time during the first 2 days or so. This eased up immediately thereafter, though I pee just slightly more often than before (maybe 1x more per day), but no waking up to pee at night or anything ridiculous, so I am more than fine. I quit Finasteride in late 2015, but it had nothing to do with the drug's efficacy or any side effects. Just didn't prioritize hair loss at the time due to familial events. I am back in the saddle now.

-Ketoconazole (Nizoral 2%; 2x~ per week):
August 2013-present. I use this somewhat intuitively, every few days, depending on how my scalp/hair feels. Sometimes I've gone 5-6 days without nizoral, sometimes I use it every 2nd/3rd day for a week, then revert to doing it every 4 days or so. I guess I even out at 2 times ish a week, give or take. Comfortable enough without the "Nizoral-greed", but still keeping it up because it makes my scalp feel pretty good and it's a safe and cheap insurance component in my regimen. What if I stopped it and stuff went downhill? Not worth the stress - thus, using Nizoral.

-Minoxidil: 5% foam + 5% liquid (both 1x a day): May 2014-present. I use the 5% foam by Kirkland during the days, and 5% liquid by Kirkland at night. On days where I have a lot of social activities, or if I stay over somewhere etc. - I tend to use foam twice a day for the ease of use, but I feel like the liquid has a tiiiiny bit more oomph in terms of scalp penetration, and as it's also cheaper to use - so on "normal" nights I use the liquid at night. Then, in the mornings after I've showered, I put on the foam and style my hair after a few minutes - works out perfectly, because unlike the liquid, the foam dries fast and doesn't make your hair look wispy/greasy! The foam also kind of acts as a pseudo-hair gel or mousse, on top of the Minoxidil benefits. So it is a nice product to use to style your hair without any bad smell or adding a greasy look to your hair. Just remember to comb your hair thoroughly a few minutes after applying, so it doesn't dry up to be too clumpy. (But don't immediately comb, to ensure you don't essentially scratch off the product).


Some Notes:

I used to use Minoxidil 5% liquid only (no foam), when I started to use Minoxidil in May 2014, until September 2016, but since I have used the same strength all along (5%) - whether it be liquid/foam - and since I also use Minoxidil twice a day whether it is/was liquid or foam; I put the above paragraph as such to simplify it.

There's not much of a difference between the same strength liquid/foam (liquid might be a tiny bit better for absorption), aside from the ease of use and drying times. But since I have used 5% strength Minoxidil twice a day since May 2014 regardless - with some months of once-a-day experimentation during my liquid-only use of Minoxidil - I simply put the regimen paragraph above this footnote to state that I have used the 5% strength twice a day from May 2014.

My personal recommendation is using liquid at night and foam during the mornings, for optimal results and maximizing efficiency of use and minimizing cost relative to the amount of compromises you have to make in your life to use Minoxidil.

Why do I say this? Well, liquid is a tiny bit better for absorption/scalp penetration, but it takes ageeees to dry (2-3h until you can comb your hair and have your hair look passable). Therefore, liquid is kind of terrible to apply before you want to do anything for the day. On the other hand, foam is much more expensive than liquid to use in the long run - therefore using it twice a day can be a bit costly. So, to maximize bang for your buck and absorption of the products, without compromising your schedule/activities, it's the best to use liquid before going to bed at night for that cheapness and slightly more oomph - and then use foam for its fast drying and nice hair mousse-esque effects in the morning, with the ability to instantly to go out afterwards.

Trust me, you don't want to lose out on Minoxidil applications. It is possible to maintain gains with once-a-day use, but it can result in minor deterioration too. If you only use the liquid variant, you will at some point start to despise it since you have to wait for it to dry, so you literally have to live like a slave to the products, or go out looking like a clown with greasy yet clumped up hair (emphasizes thinning). So if you're on liquid-only, it is tempting to use it once-a-day, but that has its risks. Foam alone can be expensive, so alternating between the two as described is literally as perfect as it gets for Minoxidil use. You get the results, don't use as much money, yet you don't feel like a slave, since foam dries up immediately and can be used fast.

Baseline Pics (Aug 2013) & Early Stages of Treatment (Jan 2014):

WP_000123.jpg WP_000128.jpg WP_000416.jpg hairlogjanuary2.jpg hairlogjanuary3.jpg

Note: the blonde hair colour in the 3 first pics is not my natural colour. Merely had it to mitigate balding issues with scalp/hair colour contrast lessening, but it didn't work out towards the end.


Recent Pics (September 2017 & July 2018 for the bleached ones):

IMG20170918062404.jpg IMG20170918063938.jpg IMG20170918063558.jpg IMG_20180710_145212.jpg IMG_20180710_145244.jpg


Shedding Timeline (Minoxidil):

This is only pertaining Minoxidil-use because I didn't have any noteworthy sheds while on Finasteride alone. Partly due to the fact I had nothing left to shed.

Month 1: Moderate shedding.

Month 2: Moderate shedding into the beginning of results.

Month 3: Incredible amounts of regrowth and cosmetic improvement in hair.

Month 4: Incredible amounts of regrowth and cosmetic improvement in hair.

Month 5: Mostly stable, minor improvement/shedding here and there.

Month 6: Minor shedding early on into the month, followed by moderate shedding. Cosmetic appearance still mostly the same.

Month 7: Moderate to pretty heavy shedding. Mild hit to the cosmetic appearance.

Month 8: Heavy shedding in the first two weeks of the month. Slowed down to moderate shedding on the third week, whilst alternating between minor shedding and moderate shedding on the last week, with the minor shedding -days outweighing the moderate ones increasingly more often. Cosmetic appearance of hair at its worst after the heavy shedding, with probably 35-40% of the previous gains lost. Slowly rebounding thereafter, cosmetic appearance getting back to the pre-shed with pending regrowth/thickness, it seems. We will see.

Month 9: No shedding or minor shedding throughout. Rebounding from months #6 to #8, whilst also having cut my hair short. This made observing minor shedding harder however.

Month 10: No shedding throughout the month. Regaining ground from months #6 to #8. Hair is still short, but growing long enough to notice hairs falling. Practically no shedding, though.

Month 11: No shedding throughout the month - regained density. Started using minoxidil once a day instead of twice a day, like 1 week before month 11 ended. Will keep you updated on how it goes.

Month 12: No shedding throughout the month - no improvements to speak of, either. This was the first month of me using minoxidil 1x a day, so with that in mind, all is going well.

Month 13: No shedding, stable. Might have regained some ground. (Still probably 10-15% worse off than during peak results of month 5, but waaaaaay above baseline, naturally).

Month 14: No shedding, to minor shedding at times.

Month 15: Minor to moderate shedding.

Month 16: Moderate shedding.

Month 17: Moderate shedding, mild cosmetic hit.

Month 18: Minor shedding to no shedding, with some regained density. (Similar to month 13 in terms of appearance).

Month 19: Started using Minoxidil twice a day again. Thanks to that - or in addition to that, I don't know - I also regained what I still hadn't regained from the initial big sheds (months 6 to 8), and the other smaller sheds. I think I achieved peak results during this time, similar to month 5 or a little bit better. I would probably have gotten these results by months 13-14, if not for using minoxidil once a day instead. So realistically, after the initial growth/shed phases and potential further smaller growth/shed phases - I would say it is reasonable to expect to reach peak results in roughly a year.

Month 20 And Beyond: Not a lot of data. As mentioned before, the transition to using minoxidil twice a day again had helped me reach my peak potential (and maintaining that). At this point of use of products, I notice my hairs have quite decent growth cycles and they seem to be kind of "natural" in the sense that my Minoxidil-grown hairs don't really synchronize cycling that much. Meaning, I don't have any reoccurring sheds or growth cycles, but a little growth here and there, and mini-sheds, just like for anyone who has "normal" hair.

In comparison, once a day usage seemed to have triggered shorter hair cycling, therefore I noticed losing hair more - and then having those hairs regrow later after a brief period of looking a bit more diffused. It is never nice to have even small sheds though, so I am sticking to twice-a-day usage. So far I have not seen any deterioration of results, and I am closing in on Month 40 as of making this edit.

A future consideration of mine is using a dermaroller for absorption boosting purposes. I will make an edit to this if I do try that out.

Misc. Info/FAQ:

Everything in here has been either asked in the thread, or people have sent me private messages about this stuff. So, I am including things people have asked me in here, in case a curious new reader has something they want to know! (Don't hesitate to ask me in this thread, or to send me a PM!)

Family history of hair loss?: I answered this question on a certain page into the thread. See here for the specifics.

Did you get any side effects from Finasteride?: As I briefly stated in the OP - I haven't gotten any sides to speak of. In the first few days of starting Finasteride, I needed to pee more, but this might have had to do with anxiety/hyping myself up over starting something which people have written horror stories on. A lot of this can be in your head. Of course, there's stuff like your prostrate getting smaller, so I guess it can explain the peeing thing a bit, but yeah, after a few days, my peeing returned to around the norm anyway (with the same amount of fluid intake per day).

In addition to this, I got very, very mild ball ache a few times in the first two weeks of starting the pill. Nothing drastic, nothing truly painful - just a dull ache that usually subsided within 5 minutes of starting (and only in my left testicle). This is absolutely normal when your body adjusts to things. This ache subsided completely by the 3rd week of being on Finasteride, 1.25mg every day.

Aside from that, I haven't noticed anything. Be it "brain fog" or lower libido, or anything. I guess my semen is a bit more watery, but that hardly matters if the quantity is the same and your overall libido and orgasms are on par. Which they are. Curiously, after resuming Finasteride after a break - my semen quality seems to be so far unaffected (i.e. it is not watery). The first time I got on Finasteride, the stuff turned watery very quick, so I guess that's a bit curious but not a bad thing. I don't care either way.

I also very infrequently feel like my nipples feel a bit more perky (no gyno though), but that is with tight-fitting shirts which have logos or something rubbing on my nipples anyway, while I have been physically active etc., so it can at least partially be in my head. Could it be Finasteride makes my nips a bit more perky? I guess. But there has been zero growth in my breasts over the period of 2+ years, and I haven't noticed this "perkiness" more often than once or twice a month or so, if even that, so it's all right. Do not overanalyze everything!


How about Minoxidil? Any sides?: None whatsoever. I guess my skin flaked a little bit or felt a little dry at first - just resist the urge to scratch, your scalp will get adjusted to things. To ease things, you could look into stuff that mitigates this (I am not very knowledgeable, but there are some things), or you could consider swapping around your Minoxidil product in favor of another one with a different formula. Trial and error, and lots of research is key.

What kind of Finasteride do you use?: I use the Finnish generic variant of Finasteride, which goes by the name of Gefina. I am not sure if this is available elsewhere, but it's a Finasteride-product among all the others. It has worked well for me. The pills I am using are 5mg pills, packaged in 100-pill packs. These pills are then cut into quarters with a pill cutter.

Where did/do you get your Finasteride?: Being a Finnish guy, I have to get a prescription for Finasteride legitimately (meaning, ordering online is impossible). That means, going for a public or a private doctor's appointment. Private GPs and dermatologists are much more likely to agree with your demands and write a prescription for you in the first place than the random docs you're exposed to in the public healthcare sector, at least here in Finland - so the price to pay for a private appointment is definitely worth it.

So that being said, you should probably call your nearest private health care center/hospital/whatever, and tell them of your predicament. Then, they'll give you a time - usually within the same day or the next two or three days. Then, you'll go meet up a Doctor and argue with them for a while likely (because most of them don't know jack sh*t about hair loss), until they give in to your demands.

Most doctors are ignorant about hair loss and the medication pertaining it, so if you come across as being knowledgeable, they will usually not be stubborn, but will instead write a prescription for you - at least the private ones, whom you paid for a lot more than you would in the public sector (less than 100 euros still)
. MAKE SURE TO ASK FOR A PRESCRIPTION OF GENERIC FINASTERIDE, ACCOMPANIED BY THIS "EDUCATION" OF THEM ABOUT HAIR LOSS! I can not stress this enough. You will be paying thousands of euros a year if you use the brand name Propecia, whereas you can get by with 50 euros for a 400 days' dose if you go for generic Finasteride. (Because most generic pill packages come in 100-pill packs, which you cut into quarters, resulting in 400 doses if used every day at a dosage of 1.25mg/day).


Got a question? Ask, and I'll answer and include the information here if relevant. You can also PM me if you want to remain discreet.
 

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ghg

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Nice to see another finn in here. In the 2nd pic I think you're worse off than NW3... NW3 with diffuse thinning all over would be a better judgement. Hopefully you'll have better luck with meds than I did! I too started finasteride when I was 23. Btw, you're as blonde as it gets without being totally white heh :).
 

Raz

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Nice to see another finn in here. In the 2nd pic I think you're worse off than NW3... NW3 with diffuse thinning all over would be a better judgement. Hopefully you'll have better luck with meds than I did! I too started finasteride when I was 23. Btw, you're as blonde as it gets without being totally white heh :).

Yeah I was actually going to write something along the lines of NW3+ or some sub-type of NW3, if not worse, but I got lazy (and editing the OP once already made it disappear once too - guess I will try to edit it now).

Also, I am not really that blonde, I was just bleaching my hair before getting on the meds, because I was kind of throwing in the towel and because bleaching just made my hair loss seem better because I am also really pale most of the time when the scalp redness doesn't kick in. Thus, scalp wasn't so visible when I had my hair bleached. I actually have (light) brown hair, but finasteride has made it really dark brown so far. I am obviously not going to bleach it anymore, but yeah.

I was going to bump this thread in another 8 days or so, when I would hit the 2 month mark on finasteride, but I guess I can post the 1st month update now and the 2-month update in another 8 days:

WP_000416.jpg

My scalp is really red in that pic, but otherwise, so far, so good. I think I started a shed after around 15 days into the pill and got slightly worse than baseline, but I can tell the pill is working. Mainly from that shed and due to the fact my body hair is not growing at all or very slowly (beard excluded). I shave my chest hair (just not my style to have it) and it normally grows in about 2-2½ weeks to the point that I really want to shave it off, but now, I haven't shaved it in about 50 days and it's only getting to the point that I might want to shave it, now. I have noticed that all the young guys who are balding have thick body hair, me included, and there was some study on this topic too, so the fact my body hair isn't growing is probably a sign of the DHT being blocked. At least that's what I hope. Might be off in my guess, though...

Side effect -wise, I had mild dizziness and needed to pee all the f***ing time for the first 2 days or so, but it got better and I think I need to pee less often than I needed to pee before getting on finasteride, at this point (50+ days into finasteride). Apart from that, no brain-fog, no manboobs, no drop in libido or anything. If there has been anything else, it has been inside my head and related to my actual situations in life, not Finasteride.

I will post another update on the 22nd which marks 2 months on finasteride. I think I have a very good chance to be a good responder, mainly from the speed of at which my initial shed occured and due to the fact I am already seeing some textural improvement and darkening of my hair. I am being optimistic!

Thanks for the comment ghg, and best of luck to you. Toivottavasti löydät jotain, joka toimii paremmin kun aiemmat tärpätit. :)
 

talmoode

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you should do something about that scalp of yours....it looks inflammed...
 

Raz

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you should do something about that scalp of yours....it looks inflammed...
Yeah, I was in Japan for one month and the weather was humid and hot all the time, which also contributed to the inflammation. I also was on my finasteride-shed around that time and combined with the weather, I was scratching my head a bit and overusing Nizoral, I think. That picture was taken about 10 days into my trip. Nevertheless, I've been monitoring my scalp with similar pictures and it did calm down even during my trip, but has gotten back to non-reddish state by now, now that I am back in my own, cold-*** country.

Thanks for dropping by!
 

ghg

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Sorry about that quick judgement about your blondiness lol. Anyway, I don't think body hair has anything to do with balding... I have minimal bodyhair and still am balding. My twin brother has practically zero bodyhair (even much less than me) and he's balding too. When I started balding about 10 years ago I couldn't even grow a beard! Most finns don't have much body hair, which is kinda strange since it could help in the cold environment or something.
 

Raz

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Sorry about that quick judgement about your blondiness lol. Anyway, I don't think body hair has anything to do with balding... I have minimal bodyhair and still am balding. My twin brother has practically zero bodyhair (even much less than me) and he's balding too. When I started balding about 10 years ago I couldn't even grow a beard! Most finns don't have much body hair, which is kinda strange since it could help in the cold environment or something.
Admittedly, I can't back up my claims from before, and they are mainly based on empirical experiences and broscience based on "I think I've read or heard something". I did say I could be mistaken too, though. Anyway, as you know we have a Sauna-culture here, so I have had lots of chances to be a Norwood and a body hair -spotter, and from my own experience, nearly all the guys under 35 who had heavy body hair tended to be thinning or nearly bald. Whatever the case, I started thinning right after my chest hair etc. started to grow at 19, and now that I am on finasteride, my body hair growth has completely slowed down, so do you think there's no coincidental DHT-link in there?

Ps. scalp is looking good now.. I think I might be applying Nizoral a bit too heavily, as the pictures I am taking of my head are on Nizoral-days post-shower, and my scalp looks pretty red in most of them. I usually have let the stuff to be on my head for about 10 minutes, but I am trying to keep it down to 3-5 minutes to see if it gets any better. No itching though, which is good at any rate.
 

ghg

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Admittedly, I can't back up my claims from before, and they are mainly based on empirical experiences and broscience based on "I think I've read or heard something". I did say I could be mistaken too, though. Anyway, as you know we have a Sauna-culture here, so I have had lots of chances to be a Norwood and a body hair -spotter, and from my own experience, nearly all the guys under 35 who had heavy body hair tended to be thinning or nearly bald. Whatever the case, I started thinning right after my chest hair etc. started to grow at 19, and now that I am on finasteride, my body hair growth has completely slowed down, so do you think there's no coincidental DHT-link in there?

Ps. scalp is looking good now.. I think I might be applying Nizoral a bit too heavily, as the pictures I am taking of my head are on Nizoral-days post-shower, and my scalp looks pretty red in most of them. I usually have let the stuff to be on my head for about 10 minutes, but I am trying to keep it down to 3-5 minutes to see if it gets any better. No itching though, which is good at any rate.

Yeah of course balding has got something to do with your sex hormones; testosterone, estrogen and dht. Based on my (little) knowledge I'd still go and claim that it's much more complicated than "lots of body hair = hairloss" or "high testosterone = hairloss". Those are both myths IMO. I think it depends more on a person's suspectibility to balding, i.e. how well your body tolerates DHT. For some ppl, high DHT starts to kill off hair follicles but for some it doesn't. Now that you block your DHT production, your body hair growth has slowed down and hopefully you'll see some new hair growth or at least your balding comes to a halt. Didn't work that way for me... what finasteride did was feminize my body, I gained fat on my chest and waist area, you know, like women usually do. Probably had excess estrogen!
 

swingline747

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Yeah of course balding has got something to do with your sex hormones; testosterone, estrogen and dht. Based on my (little) knowledge I'd still go and claim that it's much more complicated than "lots of body hair = hairloss" or "high testosterone = hairloss". Those are both myths IMO. I think it depends more on a person's suspectibility to balding, i.e. how well your body tolerates DHT. For some ppl, high DHT starts to kill off hair follicles but for some it doesn't. Now that you block your DHT production, your body hair growth has slowed down and hopefully you'll see some new hair growth or at least your balding comes to a halt. Didn't work that way for me... what finasteride did was feminize my body, I gained fat on my chest and waist area, you know, like women usually do. Probably had excess estrogen!

Your hair has to be basically allergic to the DHT to cause baldness. This is why usually its only the top hairs on the head that fall out but then transplanted hairs wont. I hear the higher the testosterone in your body the higher the possibility it has to convert to DHT. Whether thats proven or not is meh.

Good luck with your regime. At 23 I really hope you get as much back as humanly possible and get ZERO sides with any med choices.
 

GoldenMane

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I think ghg is right on this one, my body hair is almost non existent, no chest hair, fine white blonde arm hair, poor beard growing abilities, and I'm still losing my hair. Actually since starting finasteride and minoxidil, if anything I've noticed my eyebrows growing some darker hairs. They're usually an invisible fair blonde, but now some dark red hairs are coming into the mix. I wouldn't put much pass on body hair growth, but you never know, it could be a sign.
 

anxious1

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My take on body hair is basically extemes. first off, i have no chest hair, only facial hair is around my chin (no beard and bugger all side burns), and i have slow male pattern baldness. slow recession, but definately there. im in 30's and have receded 1-2 inches into my temples, and an island is forming slowly. its slow but consistant. and fwiw exactly the same as my father and brothers. slow temple recession, and Norwood 3 by 50

but for the connection, i find men with male pattern baldness usually have no body hair, or heaps of body hair, and the inbetweens dont have mbb. also colour seems to be related. men with lots of body hair get agressive male pattern baldness, ppl like me with no body hair have slow male pattern baldness, ppl in between have no male pattern baldness, and blondes seem to suffer alot of male pattern baldness despite amount of body hair.

i think lots of body hair means high DHT, but then they have to have the receptor sensitivity to it as well.

low body hair, might mean low DHt but a high sensitivity to it.

What do i make of this, i dont know, just my observations. I dont think male pattern baldness is complex at all. i think its all about how sensitive our follicles are to DHT. I think microbials, heavy metals, diet, exercise, digestion all plays a part, but only to hairloss and speed of loss. I think once u correct all that, ur still stuck with male pattern baldness and what to do. blocking DHt seems to work the best, but also carries the most side effects. stimulants may work, but not very well.

at the end of the day, i think its 99% genetics. most men i know follow theyre fathers pattern. of course theres always outliers. i blame genetics + triggers. And its proving to be as difficult as changing the shape of ur nose (without surgery)
there really is no easy answer, and i think surgery is the only cure that there will ever be. And i have to ask, what the effect on the population and fertility there will be if all balding 18yr olds get on finasteride. what will the long term effect be over many generations. will we eventually evolve into producing pseudo hermathrodites? or will the ability to produce males be lost. Its not a good position for humanity to be in. MY hope is that robots and hair cloning will make it very cheap and easy to get transplants, despite amount of donor hair. Perhaps one day there will be a DIY machine for cheap. to me it seems plausible. much more plausible than finding a drug that works well.
 

GoldenMane

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Interesting theory there anxious, but I don't think that blonde people are extra sensitive to DHT, i think it's that blondes have thinner, finer and less visible bodyhair regardless of DHT or susceptibility. Body hair isn't subject to male pattern baldness, so I don't think we can attribute the lack of bodyhair to high follicular sensitivity. Could be wrong though, maybe blondes are susceptible to a slow creeping hair loss like you say. I worry though, if you are right, and blonde people really are extra sensitive to DHT, then that means that even with finasteride lowering DHT, we're still extra sensitive to what little DHT is left, in which case our prospects aren't good at all... I hope you're wrong!
 

DoneWithIt

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Your hair has to be basically allergic to the DHT to cause baldness. This is why usually its only the top hairs on the head that fall out but then transplanted hairs wont. I hear the higher the testosterone in your body the higher the possibility it has to convert to DHT. Whether thats proven or not is meh.

Good luck with your regime. At 23 I really hope you get as much back as humanly possible and get ZERO sides with any med choices.

hmmm i dont know about that theory. i have low testosterone and high dht wich doesnt really make any sense.. im a woman as you know so there may be some other factor to my hair loss
 

swingline747

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hmmm i dont know about that theory. i have low testosterone and high dht wich doesnt really make any sense.. im a woman as you know so there may be some other factor to my hair loss

transplanted hairs should never fall out they should be immune to the DHT effect on top scalp hairs. This is why a transplant is a forver thing. Who would do a hair transplant if they would just follow suit and fall out later on.
As for you tho, dont you have Androgenetic Alopecia? Your hairs could all just be hyper sensitive to the DHT in your body.

I dont know much about that so I cant say anything for sure but I would hate to say even the best hair researchers know much for sure or we would have a sure fire fix for this by now.
 

Raz

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Nice to see some conversation going here. At any rate, I should have updated around two days ago for my 2-month mark on finasteride, but I'll do it now anyway:

WP_000627.jpgWP_000628.jpgWP_000630.jpg

This is 2 months on Finasteride, around 2½ months on Nizoral.

I cut my hair around one week ago to literally have no hair (or like 1mm), so that's all gained in a week. I was getting annoyed at how some of my hairs were still blonde (from dyeing), whilst the new ones sprouting back/growing were of a different colour. Also, even though the places where I do have healthy hair have improved - I feel like I've also lost ground with thickness, temporarily, so this was a temporary solution of sort. I can also observe the scalp health and the sprouting of new hairs on my scalp more easy if I keep it relatively short. I'll see about it.

I feel like I am not currently shedding from finasteride, and think it is working properly. (Or hoping!) My scalp health has also improved - any redness you may see in these pics is due to the fact I take pictures literally minutes after a Nizoral-shower. Also, the fact it's getting colder in here and have to wear beanies all the time. Not used to it yet for this winter/fall..

So yeah, 2 months in, my objective was to use the drug safely for these 2 months, and I have succeeded in that part. (Or rather, my body has). I am eagerly anticipating for my 3rd month update, because I feel this is the phase where something might start happening, be it a shed (people report shedding during weeks 11-16), or some smaaalll improvement. At any rate, I am being optimistic, but still realistic enough not to expect to see good results before christmas or so. (Even that will be a stretch as I've been on finasteride 4 months by then, but hey, a man can hope! Seriously though, I am looking forward to the 9-12 month mark the most).

Happy regrowing and maintaining y'all.
 

Raz

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Hey guys! I initially promised myself I'd keep updating this thread monthly or bi-monthly, but it kind of became too much of a hassle with all the real life stuff going on! However, I have been on the regimen religiously since posting the OP, with an addition to it at the 9-month mark!

So, today nearly marks my first anniversary on Finasteride (3 days short), but today also marks my 3-month mark on Minoxidil, which I started 9 months into my Finasteride + Keto -regimen. I wanted to give finasteride + Keto time at first to see if it was enough and to monitor sides, as well as being able to attribute certain things to a certain product. At 9 months into Finasteride, I felt like the time was ripe, so I got my first package of 5% liquid Minoxidil on the 18th of May, 2014.

Since then, I have not missed a single application of Minoxidil - neither have I missed anything during my first full year on hairloss medication. Yay!

So, without further ado, on to some pictures...

Disclaimer: I do have things documented on a month-by-month basis, but not much change occured between some months, so I am just going to attach one set wherein I am 3 months into my regimen of Finasteride, then another two sets where I am 5 months and 9 months into Finasteride, respectively, and finally, the last set of pics, where I have been on Finasteride for 12 months as well as having been 3 months on Minoxidil.

I am terribly sorry about the inconsistencies with the haircuts, the angles, the lighting and everything - but each picture I've taken, I've tried to be as merciless as possible to my hairloss. (Meaning, instead of airbrushing, I would do the opposite and push my hairs to the side so that the scalp was exposed as much as it would be, without "combover coverage").
 

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Raz

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Ok, the limit of attachments per post seems to be 8, so I'll do this in two parts. In the previous post, you saw my hair from November, January and May - here are my August pics (my hair looks dirtier than what it is!)

Needless to say, pretty damn happy about the results so far and I can tell I am responding to Minoxidil very well. :woot:

The last picture is me with my hair as I style it normally, and how the hairline looks with normal lighting I guess. Both temples are having insane regrowth, so I only shot one of them - they look about the same. I feel like my hairline is definitely coming back FAST, which I didn't expect at all. Thickness has improved a lot too, I am definitely hopeful I can get even better results soon. But very happy for now!

I definitely have felt a lot more confident in these last few weeks - chicks from my university circles that I hadn't seen over the summer have been giving me that something is different about him... -look, with some of them having even vocalized their thoughts, with more indications of interest and smiles. Either they really can't pinpoint what it is that is different, or they don't want to hurt my feelings. Hair has always been a part of my identity, so the years between ages 20-23 when I was losing it quick; I had to come in terms with my new looks, being depressed about it and eventually sort of conquering that mood while still not that happy about my aesthetics. Now, I am not "cured" or anything yet, but I feel like I am back and I truly feel more confident than ever. Dunno how to put it better.

Friends have been commenting on my hair-growth and the looks at large have gone from:

"That guy is balding..." to "I wonder if that guy is balding" to, at best, the "untrained eye" not even realizing I have any hairloss, as I am 6'2 tall (no one observes my hairline from above), and because normal lighting/circumstances and styling makes my hair look better than these anti-airbrush logging pics.

Thanks for checking my thread out!
 

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Notcoolanymore

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Really good regrowth compared to when you just started. You now have enough hair to actually do something with it.
 

The Far Side

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Incredible results with the hairline in particular, congrats! Do you think bleaching the hair caused any damage in the first place, or was it just normal male pattern baldness? It's pretty incredible how much your hair has recovered comparing the initial and 3 month pictures to this recent update.
 
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