??????Questions on PROSCAR??????

[viperfish]

I just have a few questions on proscar hopefully some of you will be able to answer because I am not really sure of the answers.

What age class were most men prescribed proscar to help with prostate problems?? Most likely I would assume ages 40-60 when most prostate problems occur, but not really sure.

Was the use of proscar used for an extended period of time or until the prostate problem went away?? I assume it was only used in the above age class till the problem went away.

Does anyone know for sure what role DHT plays in the body for a male who is in the 20-30 age class?? Tissue regeneration, bone/muscle mass, neurological activity, etc...........

I'm just wondering why I have come across articles actually putting down the use of propecia and why some doctors are totally aganist prescribing finasteride?? Some members of this forum have even posted related articles on this forum. Answers appreciated! :wink:

 

[viperfish]

Bump

 

[not me!]

What age class were most men prescribed proscar to help with prostate problems?? Most likely I would assume ages 40-60 when most prostate problems occur, but not really sure.

Men aged 18 - 41 were tested over 12 months with Propecia.

The different ages used in the study of Proscar can be viewed here:
http://www.proscar.com/proscar/shared/documents/pi.pdf


Was the use of proscar used for an extended period of time or until the prostate problem went away?? I assume it was only used in the above age class till the problem went away.

See above link for Proscar studies.

Does anyone know for sure what role DHT plays in the body for a male who is in the 20-30 age class?? Tissue regeneration, bone/muscle mass, neurological activity, etc...........

Great question. The truth is, this is a new area for researchers. We don't really know what all can happen when you alter the body's hormone levels for an extended period of time.

I'm just wondering why I have come across articles actually putting down the use of propecia and why some doctors are totally aganist prescribing finasteride?? Some members of this forum have even posted related articles on this forum. Answers appreciated! Wink

Physicians should always err on the safe side. If I walked into my doctors office and he just started writing scripts for stuff left and right I would be scared as hell. When putting information out to the public, it is impossible to gauge the common sense that the people reading it will (or will not) have. Just because some doctor on some website says something is a good idea doesn't mean that it is. Just remember everyone is different on all kinds of levels. How you react to a medication can vary different from how I react. Just utilize yours and your physician's best discretion before embarking on a new regimen. Especially anything that can have an impact on hormonal levels. I really don't think that enough people give Finasteride the proper respect for the medication that it truly is so it is refreshing to see that you are actually doing your research.

Best of luck to you!

 

[viperfish]

Thanks social drinker! I'm suprised more people did not reply to this post. I mean it seems that if people are using finasteride they should know the answers to these questions.

The average age used in the study involving proscar was 62.6 years old (5 year study). So basically we really do not know what role DHT plays in a young male of 20-30 years of age. Also how inhibiting DHT, for a significant period of time (5-10 years), in someone of that age class might affect a person say 20 years down the road. It is very possible that DHT plays a largely different role within the body when comparing a male of 62.6 years of age to a male who is 25 years of age. That is kind of bothersome seeing as we don't really know. Who knows what kind of effects inhibiting DHT could have, on a male 20-30 years of age, 20 years down the road.

 

[not me!]

Exactly. This is the risk that you take when you commit yourself to Proscar or Propecia. It really is a catch-22. It hasn't been around long enough to know its long-term effects, but we do know that you have to take it long term to keep its desired effect.

 

[drinkrum]

We _do_ know how lack of DHT affects younger people for extended periods of time. There have been many studies of pseudohermaphrodites who are born lacking the 5AR-II isozyme altogether. They are born with a microphallus and male gonads but during puberty, things perk up. From a Web site:

"Virilization is incomplete; the infant at birth appears female, although the external genitalia may be somewhat abnormal in size, shape, and color. The feminized phallus appears clitorislike, but the gonads are normal and male, and androgen receptors are also fully functional. As the testes produce testosterone, bodily changes occur. A full conversion to male appearance is noted, with growth of the phallus."

In these people, there is not a statistically different mortality rate than those born with the isozyme. So there does not appear to be significant long-term health problems with blocking DHT.

And by the way, Proscar has been around for a long-time. There doesn't seem to be major health benefits from prolonged usage, even at the two-decade mark.

D.

 

[drinkrum]

Here's a recent clinical study on mice. It echoes the same point, that testosterone is the main androgen in males and that DHT is a signal mechanism, even though the mice that were 5-AR-II deficient were not nearly as affected in sexual development as humans pre-puberty.

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/conten ... 42/11/4652

Bryan, do you have anything to add/clarify?

D.

 

[drinkrum]

Ah, here's the link:

http://www.usrf.org/news/010308-guevedoces.html

Notice the pseudohermaphrodites, born lacking the 5AR-II isozyme, are born looking female but change to male during puberty and later. The only noticeable difference between them and other men is scanty beard growth, no male pattern baldness, no acne, small prostate. The penis eventually becomes normal sized.

Finasteride of course replicates this, which is why it is not indicated in prepubescent men. So, the penis-size, testes-size, etc. issue is not present. As the article quotes, "Specific inhibition of 5-alpha Reductase is the mechanism of action of the prostate drug, finasteride (Proscar), which in adults, shrinks the prostate without affecting the male phenotype."

Hope this helps.

D.

 

[not me!]

Interesting, but it really does not replicate the exact same scenario as a "normal" young man taking Finasteride after puberty.

 

[iseras]

Viperfish, your concerns are absolutely valid, and i really beleive that many decide to get on this drug without full consideration of its potential ramificiations. Did you read the two articles i posted about the apparent crucial roles of DHT?

http://www.bodybuilding-tips.net/s23/t1134.html
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm

I think it's a great point when you say that DHT can probably play a different role in the 18-39 than the 40-60 age group. I just can't see how altering hormonal levels (especially a hormone that you've lived with for this long and played an important role during puberty) can not have some sort of negative effect.

DHT, in my opinion, can not be all that bad! Blocking it gives the following effects: smaller prostate, less hairfall out, and maybe less sexual performance. How do we know there aren't other effects not fully known yet or arent as obvious? The drug has only been used in young people for 6 years (hardly enough time for long term effects to be realized!) But again, this is only MY opinion and should not be taken as fact- it's just that I am simply uncomortable taking a powerful systemic drug for a cosmetic effect. But then again, it has been proven safe so far and many people take it with great success. It's a personal choice, i guess, but one which i think should be thought of seriously.

 

[drinkrum]

I guess you didn't read what I posted iseras. There have been many studies on the effect of inhibiting the 5AR-II isozyme in young people. The pseudohermaphrodites I mentioned are born without it and so offer the perfect demonstration.

D.

 

[drinkrum]

Interesting, but it really does not replicate the exact same scenario as a "normal" young man taking Finasteride after puberty.

But does it need to? If these people that are born without it turn up fine after puberty, why should we be worried?

D.

 

[not me!]

Sure it needs to. You are talking about people born without it and comparing it to otherwise "normal" individuals that are taking the medication AFTER puberty. The consequences can be monumentaly different. Apples to oranges, man.

 

[drinkrum]

Sure it needs to. You are talking about people born without it and comparing it to otherwise "normal" individuals that are taking the medication AFTER puberty. The consequences can be monumentaly different. Apples to oranges, man.

Huh? The exact point is that they develop normally after puberty despite still lacking the 5AR-II isozyme. So that means if a normal person takes finasteride after puberty, they will in effect be replicating the pseudohermaphrodites after puberty.

Get it?

D.

 

[not me!]

Of course I get what you are saying and I dont disagree that it is useful, I am just saying that we cannot rely solely on that study to gauge what the effects will be on an already-mature individual. There are too many other variables to consider. How will the body react when an otherwise "normal" individual goes throught the natural process of releasing DHT and then the UNnatural process of inhibiting it? The fact is that this has not been able to be determined as of yet by chemical means of inhibitance, therefore it is not an accurate representation.

 

[viperfish]

Thanks for the posts drinkrum. I have to agree with social drinker though, in that being born without it is quite different than altering it later in life when mature. There are alot of other variables to consider. The point is this, whenever anyone is asked about the "saftey" of propecia they always point to the proscar studies. They also make the point that proscar has been out for 20 years and on and on we go. However, the men who participated in the proscar study were in their 60's and not their 20's. There is a big difference in age class here so pointing to the proscar studies to back up the "safety" of propecia is not valid. Inhibiting DHT at 20 is much different than inhibiting it at 60, when the body for a male is in decline sexually and in other ways (don't forget also that the average life expectancy for a male is 75?? maybe lower). How do we honestly know that a young male (age class 20 - 30) is not going to suffer a greater chance of cancer or neurological failure 20 years down the road. I mean afterall most doctors don't have a clue about hormones. This is something to consider and we don't have an answer for.

However, I think most posters on here are more concerned with losing their hair and propecia is the most effective weapon in the battle.
There is no question that hairloss is a terrible thing to go through. But........afterall it is just hair and there are more important things to worry about. Don't you think??? :wink:

 

[iseras]

viperfish, i fully agree with you

 

[not me!]

Yeah, I agree with ya, viper. It is a personal decision that you have to think long and hard about. Not enough people do, in my opinion. For me, the risk is worth it. I have always been very healthy but hair loss was the stick in my otherwise clean mud, so to speak. I am also banking on 1) having subsequesnt hair transplant procedures if/when my hair loss progresses and 2) I am young enough to reap the rewards of hair multiplication if/when it is introduced commercially. If/when HM becomes commercially viable I will be more than happy to put away my pill cutter and Proscar. Until then, I will be a finasteride taking fool.

 

[viperfish]

The point of this was that whenever someone new comes to this website everyone immediately tells the "newbie" get on propecia. This new person generally has know idea what finasteride is and what it is doing to help the hair. There are some things to think about.

 

[gonna_win]

most males are fully developed at 21 years of age, so faking finasteride at 21 isnt going to make your balls fall off