Questions, answers appreciated!

[postit15]

Hair loss is due to the conversion of testosterone to DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase. Can stressful situations increase this enzyme activity causing ur hair to recede and thin at the top? Or either increase one's testosterone levels making more DHT available to plug up hair follicles?

I am wondering this because I am fairly young, 19 and less than a year ago I considered my hairline to be mature,now it is starting to recede to the top of my scalp more. I'm not sure if it has stopped so but i think its fairly under control now. I still can see fine hairs in the temple region and have seen users such as zeroheat successfully grow hair again in the temple regions. I think he credits it to mixodixil which is said to have yielded better results for those that are younger. Is it likely that I could obtain such results? I understand that everyone reacts differently to it.

Many people say that genetics plays a big role but through my mother's side and none that I know of,well at least 95% aren't bald but I believe have they had hair line recession but not till they were much older till 30-40 years of age. Same thing goes for my fathers side.

THis may not be a factor as many argue that it shouldn't really matter. But over the last 8 months or so I have started working out extensively with programs such as p90x. I wasn't able to keep up with the 6days per week regime but I'd say i was active at least 4-5 times out of the week. Prior to starting that my hairline wasnt receding. The increase in testosterone from working out shouldn't really affect hair lost correct? Also stress from school maybe a contributing factor? As I said earlier once the stress is passed the DHT levels should go down and thinning stops again. If I were to stimulate hair growth with mixodixil the hair follicles may unplug DHT and grow again? Since DHT levels caused my stress may pass would the hair follicles still be dependant on mixodixil to grow or may it be able to grow on its own eventually since DHT levels are lower and aren't plugging up the hair follicles? School is nearing an end, and stress feels like its decreasing...hair should regrow in theory? But it can't if hair follicles are clogged by DHT from a prior event. Oh as an aside, I was able to lose 15lbs from p90x and was wondering if that could be a stressful event for my body to handle. I believe I managed to obtain that over a course of 3 months though which i think is a healthy rate, i could be wrong.
At the same time, I realize my DHT levels could be naturally high causing all this and if I get lucky enough to re-grow temple hair I'd have to continue using mixodil.

Sorry if that was a bit lengthy but I've been lurking these forums for a few hours with these questions racing through my mind. I'm just curious about the mechanism of this since genetics is a big role but all of my relatives or at least the majority that i know of did not lose hair or recede that early. Again sorry if it sounded like rambled and its hard to read all of that. These seem like questions I should ask a doctor and I will probably get on that as soon as possible but I'd appreciate feedback from you guys.

 

[Hoppi]

Doctors don't seem to have a clue in my experience lol I tried asking my doctor and all he said was claimed that finasteride lowers testosterone, which isn't even true heh

And yes I side with you on the stress thing. I suspect it as being a cause for my male pattern baldness.

As I understand, stress seems to increase cortisol, lower testosterone, possibly increase estrogen, lower SHBG, possibly increase DHT, increase neurogenic inflammation, mildly increase insulin resistance and sometimes throw the thyroid off-balance or increase resistance to thyroid hormones. Confused yet? lol

I wish I understood every bit of that too!!

In theory therefore, it SHOULD be curable by counteracting them, for example by taking curcumin, resveratrol and stuff to lower cortisol like magnesium, vitamin C and omega 3.

Unfortunately I am too new to all this to know if that will solve it. If follicles have become miniaturized by DHT I do know that they can usually recover again as long as they are still penetrating the skin, as the DHT doesn't stick to them forever, as far as I know, new DHT has to come along and take it's place I think. Hell even if they're not penetrating the skin anymore I think there are ways to save them, but it may require a little more perseverance as they'll be surrounded in collagen.

Minoxidil is a funny one, I would probably recommend Nizoral as a first topical treatment. This is also a potential more healthy topical, but I don't know enough about it to suggest it really

Going back to the stress thing, I am also suspecting my thyroid to be off-balance and all different underlying factors like that. That's the problem you see, the body is so complex and a million things seem to trigger other things.

What do you think of things like finasteride and beta-sitosterol that lower 5-alpha reductase throughout the body?

 

[dougfunny]

I would suggest you stick with doctors for your advice, not Hoppi.


Stress isn't why you are losing your hair. It's because you have male pattern baldness in your genes somewhere. Unfortunately genes are very complex and it's perfectly reasonable for male pattern baldness to skip a couple of generations thus explaining why you have it worse than your parents.


Now let's go out on a limb and say that stress has caused you to lose hair, even though it is probably a coincidence.


In this case, instead of thinking of stress as making your hair fall out, think of it in terms of making you older.

In other words, stress can cause you to age prematurely.

I'll do something Hoppi and others are not able to do with nonsense they write and provide you with evidence that this is in fact true:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Nov29.html

What I am getting at is that getting older is the root cause of your hair loss, not stress.

Stress just makes what is already happening on its own happen sooner and faster.


The only real option you have for maintaining your hair is finasteride. It's that simple.

 

[Hoppi]

Protection from stress is very important

I'm taking strong steps to reduce my cortisol and neurogenic inflammation, which seem to be the two core impacts of stress. It also seems to harm parts of the brain, Sensoril seems to help with this.

I always believe it's possible to fix and heal things in the body if you know what you are doing, and usually the body will fix itself given enough time and encouragement.

The question then also arises once again "why do older men lose their hair?"

I'd very much like to see a collection of studies that says it's not simply down to gradually lifting levels of DHT in the body, because that's always been the culprit I have had my eye on! Well, possibly also increased inflammation through more free radical damage, etc etc.

 

[Bryan]

The question then also arises once again "why do older men lose their hair?"

I'd very much like to see a collection of studies that says it's not simply down to gradually lifting levels of DHT in the body, because that's always been the culprit I have had my eye on!

???

Why on earth do you say that AGAIN, even after I showed you a study that found that DHT levels in aging men go DOWN, not UP? :smack:

 

[Hoppi]

The question then also arises once again "why do older men lose their hair?"

I'd very much like to see a collection of studies that says it's not simply down to gradually lifting levels of DHT in the body, because that's always been the culprit I have had my eye on!

???

Why on earth do you say that AGAIN, even after I showed you a study that found that DHT levels in aging men go DOWN, not UP? :smack:

To be honest you would probably need to examine the DHT levels as someone aged, preferably someone who is losing hair lol, which is quite a complex experiment!

I would like to see the DHT results of older guys who are losing hair, because if it was simply weakening follicles then I would imagine you could counteract or greatly reduce this factor by supplying them with the right nutrients, a good bloodflow, and a healthy dose of antioxidants and various anti-inflammatories

If it was just androgens eating away at follicles, then they wouldn't just start dying randomly at a certain age, it would always happen slowly over time, after the androgen levels had become mature. Other than that one study about pre and post-pubescent follicles, I don't see any proof of a change occurring genetically later in life that triggers male pattern baldness.

In addition, follicles and androgen receptors heal, they don't just get damaged and not repair


EDIT -- and sorry postit, I have a habit of starting these debates lol

Oh well, good to explore possibilities and stuff isn't it!

Always remember I am not negating the effectiveness of the accepted treatments on this forum, I am just arguing that they are just that - treatments. I believe there is a chance that hidden away, certainly for a good number of people, there could be more cures than we realize! But yes, it will take time for more examples to show themselves! I'll compose a list sometime on a webpage

I also don't understand this constant tendency to not only focus on scattered evidence that male pattern baldness might be permanent, but actually going one step FURTHER and ignoring or attempting to discredit testimonies that would prove it is not, or at least not for everyone.

Even the stress reason given is hinting on permanent, although like I say the body is amazingly resilient. Aaaanyway, I'll prove this stuff more later, and I would also be very surprised if the body was incapable of recovering from the effects of relatively short term stress, particularly when given a hand with things like nutrients and antioxidants!

 

[Bryan]

To be honest you would probably need to examine the DHT levels as someone aged, preferably someone who is losing hair lol, which is quite a complex experiment!

Why? Do you REALLY think it would be any different? I don't.

I would like to see the DHT results of older guys who are losing hair, because if it was simply weakening follicles then I would imagine you could counteract or greatly reduce this factor by supplying them with the right nutrients, a good bloodflow, and a healthy dose of antioxidants and various anti-inflammatories

I'm not sure what you mean by "weakening follicles".

If it was just androgens eating away at follicles, then they wouldn't just start dying randomly at a certain age, it would always happen slowly over time, after the androgen levels had become mature.

What you don't seem to understand, Hoppi, is that the follicular response to androgens (a major component of what I call their "sensitivity" to androgens) can vary over a wide range. It can vary from extremely sensitive (like someone who starts balding while still a teenager) to moderately sensitive (like someone who starts balding somewhat later in life, like in his 20's, 30's, or 40's), to not very sensitive at all (like someone who never develops obvious balding in his entire life).

Other than that one study about pre and post-pubescent follicles, I don't see any proof of a change occurring genetically later in life that triggers male pattern baldness.

I wouldn't exactly call it "proof", but there is certainly some powerful and persuasive evidence for it: guys who start balding later in life (I personally am an example of that). That seems so obvious, I'm wondering why I even have to explain it to you! Or did you mean something else that I didn't catch?

In addition, follicles and androgen receptors heal, they don't just get damaged and not repair

Again, I'm not sure what you mean, especially the part about androgen receptors. That part doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Always remember I am not negating the effectiveness of the accepted treatments on this forum, I am just arguing that they are just that - treatments. I believe there is a chance that hidden away, certainly for a good number of people, there could be more cures than we realize!

If you're just referring to the usual things you've been obsessed with (foods, supplements, Transcendental Meditation, contemplating your navel, etc. etc. ), I strongly doubt it.

 

[armandein]

In this case, instead of thinking of stress as making your hair fall out, think of it in terms of making you older.

In other words, stress can cause you to age prematurely.
....


The only real option you have for maintaining your hair is finasteride. It's that simple.

Which is in your opinion the best preventive method, finasteride or minoxidil?

Neither to me, because are designed to treat, not prevent, and it is for all life.... age

Armando

 

[Hoppi]

Why? Do you REALLY think it would be any different? I don't.

Can't hurt! I mean it does seem VERY strange that someone will show no signs at all, and then all of a sudden it all starts! It doesn't really imply any kind of gradual weakening or increasing sensitivity to me. Or are you saying it reaches a certain point of androgen activity which switched on this gene or pattern of genes? But if that were true then people like Brains and the other guys I've referred to were incredibly lucky.

I'm not sure what you mean by "weakening follicles".

Well, isn't that one of the main possibilities for an older man's follicles dying in response to androgens than a younger man's? I mean otherwise what is that DHT actually DOING up there for like, 22 years or more, while there is NO visible recession?

What you don't seem to understand, Hoppi, is that the follicular response to androgens (a major component of what I call their "sensitivity" to androgens) can vary over a wide range. It can vary from extremely sensitive (like someone who starts balding while still a teenager) to moderately sensitive (like someone who starts balding somewhat later in life, like in his 20's, 30's, or 40's), to not very sensitive at all (like someone who never develops obvious balding in his entire life).

I am with you on this, but I don't get what's triggering them, if as you say the androgen levels are going DOWN if anything, according to what you're saying.

I wouldn't exactly call it "proof", but there is certainly some powerful and persuasive evidence for it: guys who start balding later in life (I personally am an example of that). That seems so obvious, I'm wondering why I even have to explain it to you! Or did you mean something else that I didn't catch?

Do you think that is due to an epigenetic change though? But then how come people have reversed their male pattern baldness without drugs?

Again, I'm not sure what you mean, especially the part about androgen receptors. That part doesn't make any sense to me at all.

I just meant that if it is somehow "weakening" over time (as opposed to increasing sensitivity, changing hormone levels etc) then surely the way to solve that are things like nutrients and antioxidants.

If you're just referring to the usual things you've been obsessed with (foods, supplements, Transcendental Meditation, contemplating your navel, etc. etc. ), I strongly doubt it.

Come of Bryan there's no need to throw up less logical suggestions just to make mine look less credible!

Although I have always wondered what transcendental meditation is like ^_^

I'm just saying that if male pattern baldness was THAT permanent, people like Brains and those other guys wouldn't have cured it without drugs or even supplements, would they?


Additionally dougfunny the thing about aging is wonderfully vague

I mean what is "aging" with respect to follicles? What precise processes within the follicles are you referring to?



I mean possibly somehow their androgen sensitivity could somehow INCREASE with time, but I wonder what would cause this?

 

[Hoppi]

Right I get it! Cortisol may shrink telomere size right?

Well that's easy! Then all we have to do is lower cortisol and stimulate telomerase production! Simples! And shove some antioxidants and nutrients in there for good luck

Told you I have a weird (and constructive!) way to approach problems! ^_^

I'll be bloody immortal by the end of all this lol


Thank you for linking me to that study dougfunny, I now feel even BETTER equipped to deal with this! ^_^


and wow look - http://www.modernmedicine.com/modernmed ... ail/551105

I am feeling VERY hopeful right now, whatever it is that stress has done to my body!

 

[Bryan]

Can't hurt! I mean it does seem VERY strange that someone will show no signs at all, and then all of a sudden it all starts! It doesn't really imply any kind of gradual weakening or increasing sensitivity to me.

It doesn't seem strange to me at all. I don't know why you think it happens "all of a sudden". It's been discussed over the years how the process can be a very slow development (except for those unfortunate cases of balding teenagers, of course, but those are extreme cases), slowly getting worse and worse, until it hits a kind of threshold where someone rather suddenly notices that something doesn't seem right: "Hey! Is my hair a little thinner than it used to be?!" That may _seem_ sudden, but it really isn't. It's been happening to such a person long before that fateful day when he first makes that unhappy realization.

I'm not sure what you mean by "weakening follicles".

Well, isn't that one of the main possibilities for an older man's follicles dying in response to androgens than a younger man's? I mean otherwise what is that DHT actually DOING up there for like, 22 years or more, while there is NO visible recession?

The key word there is VISIBLE recession. Maybe an even better one is NOTICEABLE recession!

What you don't seem to understand, Hoppi, is that the follicular response to androgens (a major component of what I call their "sensitivity" to androgens) can vary over a wide range. It can vary from extremely sensitive (like someone who starts balding while still a teenager) to moderately sensitive (like someone who starts balding somewhat later in life, like in his 20's, 30's, or 40's), to not very sensitive at all (like someone who never develops obvious balding in his entire life).

I am with you on this, but I don't get what's triggering them, if as you say the androgen levels are going DOWN if anything, according to what you're saying.

I don't like the words "triggering them", for the simple reason that it implies a SUDDEN change in hair follicles. But as I've been saying, I don't think it's a sudden change at all, at least not for the great majority of men.

I wouldn't exactly call it "proof", but there is certainly some powerful and persuasive evidence for it: guys who start balding later in life (I personally am an example of that). That seems so obvious, I'm wondering why I even have to explain it to you! Or did you mean something else that I didn't catch?

Do you think that is due to an epigenetic change though?

I'm not sure what you mean by that, in this context. Please explain.

But then how come people have reversed their male pattern baldness without drugs?

I don't believe that people have reversed their male pattern baldness without drugs. Remember, male pattern baldness specifically refers to androgenetic alopecia; while I don't doubt that certain other forms of thinning/balding can be helped without drugs (Brain Expels Hair's balding from gluten intolerance would be an obvious example of that), I thought it was obvious that we were specifically referring to androgenetic alopecia in the vast majority of the discussions on this forum.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean, especially the part about androgen receptors. That part doesn't make any sense to me at all.

I just meant that if it is somehow "weakening" over time (as opposed to increasing sensitivity, changing hormone levels etc) then surely the way to solve that are things like nutrients and antioxidants.

I'm glad you said that, because it gives me the opportunity to expand a bit on something I said earlier which only hinted at something I think is important!

I think it's important to understand that there's more than just one thing that determines how "sensitive" a hair follicle can be to androgens. One way, the way that you and most other posters like to talk about ad nauseum, merely has to do with what I consider to be the more superficial aspects of how androgens do their job: the levels of those androgens that are being produced; various enzymes that can make them weaker or stronger (steroid sulfatase and 5a-reductase are obvious examples); the number of androgen receptors and the various complicated chemistry that affects the activity of those androgen receptors; and perhaps other related issues having to do with all those things that I'm forgetting at the moment.

But I'm not as interested in all those things as I am in something else that I think is the most important of all: how a hair follicle actually responds to a given amount of androgenic stimulation! The reason that a body hair follicle and a scalp hair follicle respond in completely OPPOSITE ways to androgens has nothing to do with the amount of androgen, of course; it has to do with some fundamental design of that hair follicle. You can fool around with levels of androgens and androgen receptors until the cows come home, but it's not going to change the fact that androgens suppress scalp hair at the same time that they stimulate body hair!

So when you go on and on and on and on about various ways to slightly lower the amount of androgenic stimulation by altering the food you eat or the supplements you take, I think you miss the mark considerably! I think the true, final solution to male pattern baldness (androgenetic alopecia) will be to find a way to alter the fundamental design of scalp hair follicles, such that the normal levels of androgens in men will stop having such a pernicious influence on them!

If you're just referring to the usual things you've been obsessed with (foods, supplements, Transcendental Meditation, contemplating your navel, etc. etc. ), I strongly doubt it.

Come of Bryan there's no need to throw up less logical suggestions just to make mine look less credible!

Contemplating your navel seems only slightly less credible to me than the ideas you've been proposing!

Although I have always wondered what transcendental meditation is like ^_^

I tried it several years ago. Didn't get anything out of it.

I'm just saying that if male pattern baldness was THAT permanent, people like Brains and those other guys wouldn't have cured it without drugs or even supplements, would they?

I don't think Brains Expel Hair had male pattern baldness. I think he (mainly) had something else that was far more amenable to dietary treatment than androgenetic alopecia.

I mean possibly somehow their androgen sensitivity could somehow INCREASE with time, but I wonder what would cause this?

Nobody knows that, yet. But doctors and scientists are working on that, as we speak. Some day they'll know why body hair follicles and scalp hair follicles react in such a different way to androgens, and hopefully, we'll have better treatments that get more to the heart of the problem. In the meantime, choosing THIS food over THAT food and taking various dietary supplements won't do much.

 

[Hoppi]

Brains actually theorizes (presumably because he has hair loss in the male pattern baldness pattern) that the gluten was increasing his DHT and/or increasing inflammation. We were discussing this in another thread.

Just like those 2 guys who fixed their male pattern baldness but not masturbating as much lol

They were probably increasing inflammation and/or dht somehow, and it was affecting the follicles. Again, you could possibly say it was another kind of balding, but I would struggle to find something that's not male pattern baldness that could be triggered by excessive masturbation!! lol

But yeah, I do understand and agree with a lot of what you say, it's just that I don't understand how you can say (in essence) that our systemic DHT and T levels don't affect the speed at which we lose hair. Hell I mean if that were true, finasteride wouldn't work!

If the inflammation theory wasn't true, the IH regimen wouldn't have worked on people, and this other guy wouldn't have reversed his hair loss by giving up all inflammatory foods!

So while I am with you on some points, I am very baffled by others!

Additionally, male pattern baldness can happen very rapidly. Very, very rapidly, out of the blue (years into adult androgen levels) and progress quickly. I am walking talking proof of that ._.

And I'm sure many other people are too ._.

 

[Bryan]

But yeah, I do understand and agree with a lot of what you say, it's just that I don't understand how you can say (in essence) that our systemic DHT and T levels don't affect the speed at which we lose hair. Hell I mean if that were true, finasteride wouldn't work!

I'm not saying that DHT and T levels don't affect the speed at which we lose hair at all, just that it's not as significant as you think! That's why it's silly to think you can make meaningful improvements in your male pattern baldness (if it's true androgenetic alopecia) with these efforts to slightly reduce your level of androgens with various foods and supplements.

 

[Hoppi]

Woah look at stuff like this!

POSITIVE update on astral fruit

Well, not from me but before i was interested in using it as a topical but these guys on imminst.org are using it internally and heres 3 different testimonials of hair growth from using it internally.........what you guys think???
Post #199 Group: Registered User Joined: 15-Sep 2008 Posts: 34 QUOTE (tomnook @ 16-Jan 2009, 02:12 PM) Vince

I've been taking Astral Fruit on a 2-wk on 2-wk off cycle (as suggested by James A Green) for the past three months and have seen considerable new hair growth - both dark (my natural colour is dark brown) and grey hairs. I'm 54 yrs old and have been almost bald for the past twenty years or more - I began losing my hair in my late teens/early twenties with the grey appearing before I reached my mid-30's.

Not only have dozens of new hairs begun appearing on my scalp but I also noticed that some grey hairs on my wrist have entirely disappeared, additionally, body hair in other areas where I'm 99% sure there was some grey, has also reverted to brown. I can't say that I've noticed any other physical changes changes and no-one else has actually noticed/commented on any hair colour changes either. However, I've trimmed my hair after each of the 4-week cycles and placed the resulting cuttings in plastic wallets and a friend today placed them in the correct order of "apparent greyness"! There is certainly a significant difference between the cuttings after one month and those of months two and three.

I decided to adopt the 2-wk on 2-wk off cycle and removed the telomerase inhibitors mentioned by James A Green (no curcumin (turmeric), silymarin, garlic (allicin), melatonin, vitamin E, fish oil EPA, resveratrol, quercetin, green tea, ginseng) most of which I normally would take. During the second 2-wk period I have re-introduced the inhibitors and, obviously, ceased the astrgaloside IV. In fact I have a fairly similar supplement regimen to that of Simon007.

For the 2-wk "on" period I've been taking (at midday) 1 x33mg Astral Fruit, 250mg Calcium Ascorbate, Chitosan ( First 2-wk period 500mg (Now), second 2-wk period 250mg (Source Naturals), third 2-wk period 125mg (50% of a Source Naturals cap.) (I reduced the Chitosan due to comments/research given in earlier postings in this thread and others.)

Coincidentally, I had routine blood tests, a nutritional profile and male hormone panel run after the first 4-wk period - the results were all pretty much in-line with previous ones apart from my testosterone level which has always been high/normal (previous test in Feb 08) - this showed a decline of 50% to approximately the middle of the range. Testosterone is known to be related to male pattern baldness and I wonder if the reduction could have resulted in my new hair growth. I haven't noticed any decline in sex drive so perhaps the result was an anomaly! Lymphocytes were also slightly increased to high/normal however this level is not significantly greater than previous results.

Anthony, if you're reading this - I wonder if you've had any blood tests during the period which you've been taking Astral Fruit? Hormone panel? From what I've witnessed personally I imagine you'll be giving us all extremely positive news next month after your follow up telomeres length tests!

Tomnook: Thanks for your interesting posting. I have been thinking about switching to a schedule like yours but hate the idea of not taking nightly melatonin to help my sleep and giving up the powerful anti-oxidant, anti-glycating, cqancer-protective, etc., etc., effects of the substances mentioned for whole two week periods. I could change my mind in the future. I am a lot older than you, 79, and have had head hair loss since perhaps 40. Definitely there are new grey hairs growing on my head, a light fuzz now where there were very few a year or two ago. They are mostly grey though with perhaps 1 in 10 or 20 coming in black. Skin quality also seems to be excellent. . I am taking photos.

I've been up for SO long learning about telomeres and telomerase! This stuff is heavy! hehe

I could REBUILD my telomeres by cycling telomerase inhibitors like curcumin and reveratrol with telomerase activators like astral fruit and strong astragalus! And BOTH have been known to grow hair! Vitamin D also apparently maintains telomere length when taken in high doses, and Omega 3 may increase telomerase as well but I don't know how much.

Heavy.. heavy.. heh O.O



EDIT -- By the way I know this is potentially dangerous lol, but.. still wow.. you know?

DOUBLE EDIT - of course the biggest irony is I'm now doing this research while smoking a cigarette! Oh well! hehe ^_^ (don't worry it's very rare for me now - I know it's bad for my hair and like EVERYTHING! lol)


All I need to do apparently is CYCLE my astral fruit/astragaloside and my curcumin & resveratrol. Maybe a month or two of one and a month or 2 of the other. These would both benefit my hair, rebuild after any effects of stress on my DNA and probably add years to my life! Then if I chuck in 4000 IU of vitamin D a day and a healthy amount of Omega 3, of course the whole time decreasing cortisol and insulin and increasing antioxidants and nutrients, I'm REALLY in business

See sometimes you just need to come at a problem with a little bit of constructive open-mindedness, and it's amazing what can happen!

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

I posted a while ago on my objection to the linking of "male pattern baldness" solely with androgenic alopecia and how it related to my specific case. My hair loss was starting to follow the male pattern of baldness with some key differences. My temples were receding (a strong NW2) but my hair was mildly thinning all over, not just up top. Additionally my hair loss was missing a key step of miniaturization. It was simply thin one day and gone the next and all the hairs I would find on my pillow or desk were thin but full size. Additionally my family history did not match the X linked hypothesis of androgenic alopecia in the slightest (everyone on my mother's side has died with a Norwood 1 at worst).

Where I think this comes into play mainly on this board is the massive number of "self-diagnoses" or diagnosis done by crappy doctors who don't really take much time. It's quite easy to say, hey look, you're a man and your temples are receding along with the hair up top thinning out, why you must have androgenic alopecia. I don't think the simple pattern of how hair is lost is a good indicator that this is what's occurring and I think there are a decent number of people who could benefit from realizing that just because they're following the simple male pattern that they're experiencing just androgenic alopecia.

Additionally I bring up my case because some of the newer methods of testing available for people with my condition put the rough estimate of effected Americans as high as 100 million (potentially 35% of all ethnic groups save for a smaller portion of those with black heritage). This number rises even more in certain at risk populations (diabetics especially).

The condition affects everyone differently and so therefor does not always lead to hair loss or thyroid problems but it is a semi common occurrence. It almost certainly affects systemic inflammation to varying degrees in every person afflicted with the condition who still continues to consume gluten products as well as having the ability to affect various hormone levels and balances (low testosterone is a big one).

Considering the high prevalence of this condition I feel no shame or guilt in bringing up health issues to many of the self-diagnosers that come to these boards but I still also give out the recommendations for the big-3 route for those cases that specifically outline a family history of X-mediated hair loss. Additionally most of my "supplement" recommendations are things which everyone should be taking anyways regardless of whether or not they're losing their hair just to combat the sh*t diet we are exposed to in our modern world.

As for the hair thinning with age, consider that every time a cell regenerates or a protein is remade your blueprint for making it can be degenerated more than the last time due to increased oxidative stress and other sources of nucleic damage. All of our systems slowly degrade over time, that's just a part of life.

 

[Hoppi]

Well said I fully agree with so much of that, it's amazing how often it is overlooked.

Although with regard to the last bit... yes that's true but a bunch of potent antioxidants and some telomerase activators seem to offset much of it rather sharpish O.O and the other things I edited my post to include!

It is AMAZING stuff. I do know the risks don't worry, but I'm still blown away


edit - I think for now until I can rule out the thyroid thing (which I still think is the real cause or one of the main causes) I will just go on a nice higher dose of vitamin D, maybe Krill Oil or a higher dose of Omega 3, and ensure I get antioxidants and stuff into me! That should offset it a bit for now just in case!

My only concern is that if cur and res INHIBIT telomerase, I hope they don't do that within the hair follicles, as hair follicles are supposed to be one of the only kinds of cells in the body that can actually do it. I shall have to look into that. However, if it were that bad / true, then curcumin and resveratrol wouldn't have had some proven effects on people with male pattern baldness. I will research further very soon!

Night night! ^_^