Question on adding Rogaine to Proscar regimen

[Guest]

Hey guys,


ive been on proscar for a couple of weeks to prevent hair loss and I am 21 years old. I am wondering if I should wait to see if propecia alone will work with me before I add something like minoxidil and the spinorolactane(i know i screwed that spelling up bad) to my regimen. 1 mg/day of finasteride by itself does work for some people right? i have started it in the very early stages of my hair loss so i am hopeful.

thanks,

 

[hellohello]

I would definately wait a year before adding any more to your regime.
Remember, over 80% chance you'll at least maintain on Propecia and you also have to remember that this is a long term battle so don't use all your methods of attack at once.

 

[Guest]

Thanks hello.

Now this 80% chance of maintenance you say, does that mean an 80% chance of keeping all of my hair that I have now?

 

[JWM]

Yup. I agree with hellohello. finasteride may be all you need and you may be one of the lucky ones who gets regrowth from it.

Add Nizoral shampoo a few times a week and give it a year. If after that time you feel you want more growth, then add minoxidil.

Good luck

 

[Guest]

Yup. I agree with hellohello. finasteride may be all you need and you may be one of the lucky ones who gets regrowth from it.

Add Nizoral shampoo a few times a week and give it a year. If after that time you feel you want more growth, then add minoxidil.

Good luck

Thanks. Is twice a week with Nizoral 1% enough?

 

[CCS]

hellohello and JW mean well, but unless you have a full head of hair and just want to maintain it, or just have a little thining in back, I would first hit your loss with everything you've got for a year, and then when you have a full head of hair, give propecia a year to see if it will maintain it.

I do not believe that people get dependent on drugs in the sense some people suggest. Some people think if you get on rogaine and get back off, you will loose more hair than if you never got on in the first place. I've not seen any evidence of this. In the 5 year propecia study, when they swiched some propecia receivers to the placebo group, they lost hair at a faster rate than the placebo only group ever did, for a year. They they were put back on propecia after that year, and in the next 3 years they climbed back up to almost were the propecia only people were at the end of 5 years. In contrast, the people who were on placebo the first year and then were switched to propecia the last 4 years never got has high as this group did, emphasizing the benifits of starting early. You see, DHT just starts hair loss, and then many other factors kick in and stay on even after DHT is removed. Minoxidil and other products help attack those problems from a different angle.

I doubt that propecia to placebo group would have fell below the placebo only group and they not been switched back. Think of rent control as an analogy. If the house next to yours goes up $5/month, and yours does too, you see a gradual loss in your bank account. If yours has rent control, and it stays protected until the houses around you are $1000 per month more, and then the rent control is removed, you see a much more dramatic effect right then than you would have seen in the beginning had you not been on it, but you are still better off for being on it. With propecia, I don't think you keep your savings long, though.

I believe that male pattern baldness is a progressive condition, in which your follicles continue to get more and more sensitive to DHT, whether you are on propecia or not. THe propecia just keeps DHT levels down so that your follicles are not hit as bad. THe 80% who don't maintain their hair have the most sensitive follicles. If anything, I think high DHT levels, not low DHT levels, make your follicles more sensitive to DHT. Propecia may maintain your hair, but if you want to regrow as much as possible, you need to get on minoxidil now instead of later, and use the spironolactone and copper peptides and suppliment your diet with arginine. A good way to do that last part is to eat more vegetables like broccoli and soy protein.

 

[Guest]

Hey, collegechemistrystudent.

You can see pics of my hair in the thread in the tell your story forum. Right now I think that I am barely a Norwood 2, with a little bit of recession at the temples and a tiny bit in the back perhaps. So basically I do have a full head of hair. My only goal is to maintain my current level of hair. Does that change your recommendation at all? I mean I plan on staying on Proscar/Propecia for the rest of my life if it works. I am experiencing no side effects to speak of and I have the money.

 

[CCS]

your hair is think enough you can afford to try just the propecia. I did not see any pics of your hairline, but if it is nearly what your top is like, you will be fine. I don't think you need to do a large combo. just use nizoral 1% 2-3 times a week and watch your hairline closely. it keeps thinning even after 3 months on propecia (3 months is the length of catagen and telogen together), then add minoxidil 5% once a day and copper peptides once a day to just your hairline. It just depends on how fast it thins. From what i've seen, you just need to maintain.

 

[Guest]

thanks college chemistry student,

couple more question if i may.

it says it works for 80-83% of guys in maintaining hair count. And about 66% in regrowing. Does that mean that if I haven't really lost any hair that I will start growing new hair or does it only regrow hair that it's lost?

And by maintaining does that mean that I will able to maintain my current level of hair into my forties and fifties if it works for me?

Thanks.

 

[hellohello]

I don't want to give you facts that will be disputed or mis represented.

Goto http://www.propecia.com and spend 20 or so minutes looking through everything on the site. I mean everything. It will give you all the info you need.

Remember that it's all FDA approved information - no snake oil salesman info on there as they are legally bound to tell the truth as it was reported.

 

[Guest]

thanks hellohello,

i have been to that site before and it's a great site.

i just wondering if i'll likely be able to maintain my current level of hair into my forties and fifties if it is effective. not looking for any guarantees, just opinions and thoughts on it.

thanks.

 

[CCS]

I doubt http://www.propecia.com has the answers to those questions, though it may have some information you can draw conclusions from.

First off, I read that DHT or at least testosterone helps hair growth during childhood, but that sometime after puberty it starts to hurt hair growth. I don't know if that is to different degrees in all men or if it still helps some men in adult hood.

Second, in most men, ALL hairs are hurt by DHT and probably other factors we don't yet know about. Hairs on the sides are not hurt nearly as much. Most people's sides will thin a little over their lifetime, and some people will hit NW7. The only constant is that the sides are much more DHT resistent.

Third, men on propecia lost hair after the second year. This is because genetics cause almost everyone's follicles to become more sensitive to DHT over time, so that whichever follicles are sensitive even to the low DHT levels you have on propecia will be the first to shrink, and more become sensitive each year. This is true of men who do not hav male pattern baldness. Even their hair counts drop slowly over their lifetime. Men loose hair on Propecia not because propecia looses its strength or causes sensitivity, but because propecia has finite strength, and male pattern baldness is driven by genetics and is a progressive condition, with increase sensitivity over time. There will be years when sensitivity remains constant, and times when DHT levels naturally drop and you actually grow a few hairs back naturally, but over the years hair counts will keep going down.

I think I already posted this picture, but here it is again. Notice the slow hair loss after the second year. This shows that Propecia only takes a year or two to regrow all the hairs that will thrive at the reduced DHT level. After that, the new loss if from more hairs becoming sensitive enough to DHT over time to shrink even at that level. Avodart saves even these hairs for a while, but if they are genetically programmed to be sensitive even to 10% levels, they will still go.

http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/430/2006 ... _chart.gif

All men loose hair over time. But men with male pattern baldness become sensitive faster. However, at the reduced DHT levels, the slope of that graph my be similar to normal hair loss.



Now as for your other question about growing more hair, the answer is it depends on your follicles. I strongly suspect that if some are sensitive to your current levels, then all will probably thicken at reduced levels. However, if they are not sensitve to DHT at all, and you just think you are thinning, then changing the DHT levels might not do much. You can even use minoxidil for a few months to jump start things and then get off it and not loose more than you currently have. At worst you will be back were you started.

 

[Bryan]

First off, I read that DHT or at least testosterone helps hair growth during childhood, but that sometime after puberty it starts to hurt hair growth. I don't know if that is to different degrees in all men or if it still helps some men in adult hood.

You're talking about SCALP hair?? Nope, scalp hair has no need for androgens whatsoever, even though all scalp follicles contain androgen receptors. To see that, one only needs to look at the thick hair that little girls have! How much androgen can THEY be producing? :wink: Also, even people with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome have thick, luxuriant scalp hair growth.

Bryan

 

[Guest]

wow thats prety technical ccs, but basically what you are saying is that propecia is effective for me, that i can plan on it slowing down my hair loss to that of a guy without male pattern baldness who has normal hair loss? but since i have a history of male pattern baldness i can still plan on some balding? is that right?

and did i undersatnd you right when you said that my body will build up a kind of tolerance to finasteride? where its not as effective?

thanks

 

[CCS]

I said that propecia will slow down your hair loss no matter what your genetics are, and that after about two years, your hair will continue to thin no matter who you you are, but how fast it thins is determined by genetics. Maybe one of your hairs will be half as think by age 60, or maybe you will be NW7 by age 40. Most likely you will than about as fast as the average person, which is NW2 or 3 by age 50. I did not say your body will build up resistance to finasteride. I said that almost every person, whether they are on Finasteride or not, to some degree will produce more dht and be more sensitive to DHT, so that finasteride can't protect as many of their hairs as well as it did when they were younger.

 

[Guest]

i see. can i slow down the hair loss alot more by getting on minoxidil and azelaic acid and nizoral 1%?

as i said in another thread my genetics are awful so i hope i don't end up a Norwood 7 by age 40.

i hope avodart is approved soon i guess.

 

[techprof]

stay away from AA.
use sods instead

 

[Guest]

sorry, sods?

 

[CCS]

sods are...i'm not sure, but they are in prox-N and some other sources. Just search around and you will find them easily. Just ask us before buying a specific product.

that acid increase minoxidil absoption, but does it by burning your scalp, so that anything will go through. it is not worth it. you are better off with copper peptides and sods, and maybe even spironolactone, though i'm not sure how many places know how to formulate spironolactone right. prox-N at drproctor.com has sods, copper peptides, and many other good things in it. minoxidil is very cheap, nizoral 1% is reasonable, finasteride is a necessity, and spironolactone is about chosing the formulation. worry about that after you are at least on the big three. you want to do it soon, but don't sit around researching everything when you are not yet taking finasteride. dutasteride is no miracle drug, and you can get it without a prescription online at places like elitenetpharmacy.com.