Question About The Holocaust... Seems Peculiar.

[Goldee Lox]

Why is it illegal/censored in MANY countries to question it?

 

[Dante92]

Because Anne Frankly, it makes Jews führerious.

 

[Goldee Lox]

But, there are many holes in the stories.. lack of physical evidence of systematic gassings. No autopsies or mass graves.. seems like people don't want it investigated further. The math doesn't add up.

 

[Goldee Lox]

Typhus and starvation from Germany's infrastructure being blown to bits caused a lot of deaths, especially the ones in the pictures from liberation.. I don't deny persecution.. just deny the sensationalized subject of it.

 

[SmoothSailing]

It never ceases to amuse me how, even 70+ years later, there are still people who deny it in spite of the incredible amount of undeniable, overwhelming evidence. They insult every single victim, their stories, their tragedies and their families, and I'm not only talking about the Jews.

I think the further in the past it is the more unsure we will become on what exactly happened. So much misinformation these days.

I don't agree that it should be made illegal to deny the holocaust, in fact I consider it ridiculous.

To question whether it happened, or to question some discrepancies in the details of it, are two completely different things. The latter is ok in my opinion but anyone with a brain is clearly going to believe the people who have studied this, or even lived through it, over some nuts on the internet who seem to have some agenda.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Somewhere around 6 million Jews, and 500,000 gypsies, were exterminated by Nazi Germany and its allies. The evidence is overwhelming, kind of like the moon landing or the atomic bombing of Hiroshima.

If you want to know more about this don't stick to reading essays off kukluxklan.com. Go and read and see the evidence for yourself. There's plenty of it out there. There's more evidence than you could possibly go through.

Netflix has a good six hour documentary on Auschwitz from the BBC, its called Auschwitz, you can start there and follow up whatever claims you want.

As @WhitePolarBear said, denial of genocide is part of genocide, that's why it's censored. It's not a free speech issue, we also ban libel, slander, fraud, and false advertising.

You should also not be hesitant to accept that humanity can be cruel. To do so is peak delusional. There are lots of genocides in human history, from Rawnda to the Australian Aborigines and so on, we know more about the Holocaust because Germany lost the war and the USA, with a significant Jewish population, won.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Personally, I do not see anything wrong with questions or questioning the holocaust or aspects of it. Just like as I do not see anything wrong with questioning anything about anything. You should be able to, regardless of context, so long as it is done in a polite, respectful and sensitive manner.
Let's not forget that often history is written by the victors. This often means there can be a lot of selectivity, whole sale omissions, white washing and manipulation of facts. For example, you don't hear anything about the roughly minimum 3 million germans that died post surrender nor does it even come up, funny that.

Of course people hear about German casualties otherwise you wouldn't know about it.

I knew about that when I was ~10, and I'm from Canada.

 

[buckthorn]

JESUS FUCKKKKKKKKING CHRIST.

 

[hairblues]

JESUS FUCKKKKKKKKING CHRIST.

and OP is from Wisconsin...wtf

 

[buckthorn]

and OP is from Wisconsin...wtf

people from Wisconsin are fucked.

 

[hairblues]

people from Wisconsin are fucked.

lololol kind of true actually.

 

[Roberto_72]

This user is kind of obsessed with Nazis having a bad reputation

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...f-bald-guy-you-can-be-is.102671/#post-1407150

 

[Swiss_Tampons]

Yes people who think like this scare me, you'd think we were over the Middle Ages and obscurantism... All I'm asking is that they keep their sick mentality in their own country.

And then comes OP. Absolutely shocking.

 

[Goldee Lox]

Somewhere around 6 million Jews, and 500,000 gypsies, were exterminated by Nazi Germany and its allies. The evidence is overwhelming, kind of like the moon landing or the atomic bombing of Hiroshima.

If you want to know more about this don't stick to reading essays off kukluxklan.com. Go and read and see the evidence for yourself. There's plenty of it out there. There's more evidence than you could possibly go through.

Netflix has a good six hour documentary on Auschwitz from the BBC, its called Auschwitz, you can start there and follow up whatever claims you want.

As @WhitePolarBear said, denial of genocide is part of genocide, that's why it's censored. It's not a free speech issue, we also ban libel, slander, fraud, and false advertising.

You should also not be hesitant to accept that humanity can be cruel. To do so is peak delusional. There are lots of genocides in human history, from Rawnda to the Australian Aborigines and so on, we know more about the Holocaust because Germany lost the war and the USA, with a significant Jewish population, won.

One thing I think that is MEGA blown out of proportion is the 6 million figure.. 6 million is an important number in Jewish history... It was claimed 4 million people perished at Auschwitz for decades and then in the early 90's the figure was revised to 1.5 million. (Which is still much too high)... and despite this Auschwitz revision, the 6 million total figure remains.

This is one of the more annoying aspects of debating the Holocaust.. If you are to point out that you're skeptical of many aspects of the story, even with some compelling arguments, you're still automatically some white trash redneck that is low key Ku Klux Klan. People on here are bashing the state of Wisconsin just because I stated that I'm a skeptic. The main thing I'm a skeptic of is the industrial gassings and the scale said to have been accomplished.

I've seen this documentary several times.. At one point they interview "Sonderkommando" Dario Gabbai. This dude has made some outrageous claims over the years. One claim is that he entered a gas chamber and seen all the people inside dead, STILL STANDING UP and they were a distinct "Black and Blue" color.. Cyanide gassing doesn't cause this coloration. Another claim he has stated on camera is that they would load multiple bodies into a single oven and they would be completely cremated in 15 to 20 minutes... even a modern computerized cremation oven that burns much hotter takes 2+ hours to burn a single average sized body. He's not just some random, this dude is an Auschwitz star.

Here's a link to some of his claims.. https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=984

There's also many youtube vids of his nonsensical claims.. I doubt many would look it up. He was also a professional actor for many years.

You can't always count on eyewitness testimony... For years after the war, both soldiers and prisoners claimed to have seen gassings at Dachau... when now it is accepted that nothing like that ever happened there.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

One thing I think that is MEGA blown out of proportion is the 6 million figure.. 6 million is an important number in Jewish history... It was claimed 4 million people perished at Auschwitz for decades and then in the early 90's the figure was revised to 1.5 million. (Which is still much too high)... and despite this Auschwitz revision, the 6 million total figure remains.

This is one of the more annoying aspects of debating the Holocaust.. If you are to point out that you're skeptical of many aspects of the story, even with some compelling arguments, you're still automatically some white trash redneck that is low key Ku Klux Klan. People on here are bashing the state of Wisconsin just because I stated that I'm a skeptic. The main thing I'm a skeptic of is the industrial gassings and the scale said to have been accomplished.

I've seen this documentary several times.. At one point they interview "Sonderkommando" Dario Gabbai. This dude has made some outrageous claims over the years. One claim is that he entered a gas chamber and seen all the people inside dead, STILL STANDING UP and they were a distinct "Black and Blue" color.. Cyanide gassing doesn't cause this coloration. Another claim he has stated on camera is that they would load multiple bodies into a single oven and they would be completely cremated in 15 to 20 minutes... even a modern computerized cremation oven that burns much hotter takes 2+ hours to burn a single average sized body. He's not just some random, this dude is an Auschwitz star.

Here's a link to some of his claims.. https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=984

There's also many youtube vids of his nonsensical claims.. I doubt many would look it up. He was also a professional actor for many years.

You can't always count on eyewitness testimony... For years after the war, both soldiers and prisoners claimed to have seen gassings at Dachau... when now it is accepted that nothing like that ever happened there.

There's a lot of research by modern psychologists into what's reliable in eyewitness testimony and what isn't. I would think that "I've seen burnings" is more reliable than "it took 20 minutes" -- think about it. When it comes to the passage of time people are often unreliable.

You missed the most important part of the BBC documentary -- that is Oskar Groening's testimony. His whole life he had ignored the issue until he found out about Holocaust deniers like yourself. He then decided to reveal his actions and what he knew about and how things work.

The historical development of industrial gassing actually makes a lot of srnse. They started off killing Jews with bullets in Eastern Europe, that gave the German soldiers a lot of issues with PTSD and alcoholism. They set up an industrial system afterward to separate the German troops from moral culpability.

Today we see similar things where a lot of wars are fought with economic sanctions which kill people indirectly and thus people can deny moral culpability. One million Iraqis died as a result of sanctions during the Clinton years, do you think anybody in that administration is experiencing depression or PTSD as a result? No. Modern human society tries to do it's killings indirectly, because nearly everyone likes to believe that they're good.

By the way you contradict yourself. You cry that no questioning of the Holocaust is allowed, but then you point out that the historical record incorporates new evidence. That's because there is rigorous Holocaust research, there's just no rigorous Holocaust denial. It makes perfect sense in the past sixty years for some of the death camps to have had their numbers revised downward or upward. It doesn't make sense to say that Poland never had a Jewish population of 3 million people.

 

[Goldee Lox]

There's a lot of research by modern psychologists into what's reliable in eyewitness testimony and what isn't. I would think that "I've seen burnings" is more reliable than "it took 20 minutes" -- think about it. When it comes to the passage of time people are often unreliable.

I can agree with some of this research.. but this feels like goal tending in this particular scenario. The dudes claims are so off base that it doesn't coincide at all with what would have really taken place. It doesn't take much research on this character to realize he's a nutcase. Also, just because there are crematoria it doesn't prove industrial scale gassing. Ellis island had a crematorium for the same reasons that German work camps did, disease control.. see the delousing chambers that still have prussian blue staining all over them from Zyklon B. If you look at the layout of Auschwitz, there was a hospital and the previously stated delousing chambers for typhus control. Seems like there was an effort to keep prisoners healthy.. There was also a theater that had plays, a grand piano, a camp currency and a swimming pool. . Things they probably don't show/tell you on the tour nor on Spielbergs Shoah project that was selectively picked. There was a soccer field literally right next to "Krema 2" and "Krema 3" at Birkenau where prisoners had matches.. Why would you put an eyes view recreational field next to 2 facilities when you're supposedly nonstop destroying people in them?

You missed the most important part of the BBC documentary -- that is Oskar Groening's testimony. His whole life he had ignored the issue until he found out about Holocaust deniers like yourself. He then decided to reveal his actions and what he knew about and how things work.

I heard he's convicted now.. If he was such a prominent figure, why wasn't he convicted in 48? Seems like he got all around the camp and saw everything for a low ranking SS and simple pen pusher. Also, he never states that he seen gassings. You still seem to think this is the most important part of the documentary. Are there any truly credible eye witnesses to the gassings?

Has he ever been cross examined?

By the way you contradict yourself. You cry that no questioning of the Holocaust is allowed, but then you point out that the historical record incorporates new evidence. That's because there is rigorous Holocaust research, there's just no rigorous Holocaust denial. It makes perfect sense in the past sixty years for some of the death camps to have had their numbers revised downward or upward. It doesn't make sense to say that Poland never had a Jewish population of 3 million peop

So, 2.5 million dead vanishing virtually overnight from a single camp is just a simple and normal revision? Or is it backtracking?

I'll ask one more question in this reply.. What do you think about the known fact that the soviets modified the Auschwitz I "gas chamber" post war? Specifically the knocking out of walls to form a single room and adding drop holes to the ceiling of the building.

 

[yetti]

If you look at the layout of Auschwitz, there was a hospital and the previously stated delousing chambers for typhus control. Seems like there was an effort to keep prisoners healthy.. There was also a theater that had plays, a grand piano, a camp currency and a swimming pool. . Things they probably don't show/tell you on the tour nor on Spielbergs Shoah project that was selectively picked. There was a soccer field literally right next to "Krema 2" and "Krema 3" at Birkenau where prisoners had matches.. Why would you put an eyes view recreational field next to 2 facilities when you're supposedly nonstop destroying people in them?

Wow.

 

[Goldee Lox]

Wow.

Typical response.

 

[yetti]

What does that mean, typical response? What kind of response do you expect to a post sharing your opinion that things weren't so bad... at Auschwitz? You're impressed by the piano and swimmimg pool... at Auschwitz? There are really no words...

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

The reason they had a piano at Auschwitz was to boost morale. I looked it up to be sure but that's exactly the reason I suspected. It's exactly what one would expect.

Keep in mind that it's nonsensical to apply a static analysis to Auschwitz as the purpose of the camps evolved throughout the war as did German policy. Auschwitz was originally built to deal with the Soviets, but operation Barbarossa was a failure. Large parts of the German establishment wanted to use the Jews for slave labour rather than killing them. Further, there was a plan to send 760,000 Hungarian Jews to the allies in exchange for 10,000 trucks to fight the Soviets on the Eastern front. They ended up dying at Auschwitz.