question about diffuse thinning

[nydheart]

Hi all, I would classify myself as a diffuse thinner. My hair has gradually been thinning for about 12 years. There is a small area on my crown where it feels as though there may not be any hair (I shave my head) but other than that I can still feel stubble all around the rest of my head. I also still have a frontal hairline. I have been reading some posts where some people say that diffuse thinners do not respond well to the big 3. I am not sure if there is any truth to this but would like to hear from those of you with a similar diffuse thinning pattern. I have ordered minoxidil foam and am debating about propecia. If I start to use propecia does it actually regrow hair or just stop the loss of what hair you have left? I just wanted to see if there were others in my same situation that might be able to give me some advice as to what to do. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Londo]

Do you have any pics? How old are you?

I'm 45. My story with pics is linked in my sig. After receding in my late twenties my hair has been diffusely thinning in a male pattern baldness fashion, beginning with the vertex and lately in the front. I suppose I just have male pattern baldness, but it hasn't been very aggressive.

My gut feeling is that diffuse thinners have it easier, that since you still have hair everywhere you have a better chance of recovery after you decrease your DHT levels. I've had good results with Finasteride.

The best thing is to take action early, before DHT has done too much damage. I wish I'd started Finasteride sooner.

 

[Nathaniel]

If I start to use propecia does it actually regrow hair or just stop the loss of what hair you have left? .

As with any current hairloss treatment, you should expect mainly maintenance. Yes you can regrow hair with them, specially the big 3, but keep in mind that its usually limited. Its best to start treating hairloss as soon as possible.

 

[nydheart]

I am 32 years old and like I said have been gradually thinning for about 12 years and possibly earlier as I can remember a couple of people mentioning my wide part in highschool. I am a red head so apparently I have less follicles to begin with (damn genetics!)

Has there been people with diffuse thinning who just use rogaine with success? I am not opposed to using finasteride in conjunction with rogaine but I wouldn't mind just starting with rogaine to see if anything changes. I dunno... I have shaved my head for years and everyone around me knows me that way but it sure would be cool to grow my hair out again!

Anyways, thanks for your help and if anyone else would like to offer up any advice it would be appreciated.

 

[Londo]

While I'm sure Minoxidil has helped me, I consider Finasteride the cornerstone of my regimen. I used Minoxidil and Finasteride only my first four months. My individual hairs became darker, thicker, and shinier all over my head. I attribute that to the Finasteride.

Finasteride reduces DHT which progressively damages hair that is sensitive to it into nothingness. Once this happens they don't come back (correct me if I'm wrong). Minoxidil just gives hairs a kick in the *** to grow, but does nothing to prevent damage that I'm aware of.

finasteride is easy to use, just take a pill. Minoxidil is more time consuming to use and can get messy with longer hair. Finasteride is fairly cheap if you split 5mg Proscar pills. If you want reduced dosages to reduce side effects you can split 1mg Propecia pills.

For someone with moderate hairloss considering doing something I'd recommend Finasteride and Nizoral shampoo first. I'd give that 6 months to a year and then consider adding Minoxidil.

Why do you want to try Minoxidil first?

 

[nydheart]

I was thinking of having a 3rd child and wasn't sure if starting finasteride prior to this would be a wise idea, hence wanting to start the minoxidil. first.

Why would you leave the minoxidil out of the mix untill after 6 months? Is it because it just helps the new hair you get from propecia grow? Thanks!

 

[Londo]

Oh, OK. If you are considering having another child I don't blame you for not wanting to start Finasteride. That isn't anything I'd want to gamble with either.

My recommendation for starting Finasteride first and waiting at least 6 months would be so someone could see what kind of results they got with finasteride alone. If a person was satisifed with the results they could put off Minoxidil until they felt they needed it. No sense in spending money and hassling with something you don't need.

My thinning was pretty far along when I started finasteride and Min. I felt like I needed to gang up on my hairloss immediately once I admitted how far it had gotten. I'm at 7 months now.

In your case it makes sense to start Minoxidil first. Good luck!

 

[nydheart]

Just so I am sure of what I have been reading (for the most part) on this site. If I were to use the big 3 I would basically know within a year how much hair I would be expected to grow back and after this point it would just be maintaining that growth? Also, some people on this site say that someting called spironolactone should be used as well? Are any of you guys using this products in conjunction with the big 3?

As far as having children, (im sure this has been asked many times) is it safe to conceive while using finasteride? I know if I want to do something about this I need to get on it as I have already gone a long time without doing anything... Thanks agian!

 

[Londo]

I believe 2 years is about when Propecia has done the most it can do. From then on it is a slow decline, much slower than if nothing had been done.

I haven't used topical spironolactone myself, but I've been interested. I have a friend who may not be able to take Propecia because his liver enzymes tested high the last time he got tested. Topical spironolactone sounds like it should be effective. From what I've read the main problem with it is the smell, something like rotten eggs or sulfer. The 2% lotions are supposed to be easier to use, but are smelly. Dr. Lee is supposed to have a 5% cream that doesn't smell, but I imagine that it is messy. I may try experimenting with that later.

You can take spironolactone internally too, but I wouldn't recommend that because of the sexual side effects.

I think klink has fathered a couple of children while on Finasteride. This is where I would consult a doctor. It is probably safe, but I would be apprehensive. If you waited 6 months to a year to start Finasteride I don't think it would hurt much.

 

[Nathaniel]

Just so I am sure of what I have been reading (for the most part) on this site. If I were to use the big 3 I would basically know within a year how much hair I would be expected to grow back and after this point it would just be maintaining that growth? Also, some people on this site say that someting called spironolactone should be used as well? Are any of you guys using this products in conjunction with the big 3?

As far as having children, (im sure this has been asked many times) is it safe to conceive while using finasteride? I know if I want to do something about this I need to get on it as I have already gone a long time without doing anything... Thanks agian!

If you're serious about your hair, then the big 3 is a must. I added a copper peptide, brand name folligen to the big 3 but so far have seen no impact. Even though I have maintained so I guess thats a plus. When I finish the product I will consider adding either spironolactone or revivogen.

As for having children and taking finasteride, there are a few members here who have conceived whilst taking finasteride and there is no scientific data that suggests that it is dangerous to have children while taking it. However, this is a delicate subject and it would be wise of you to do some further reading about this.

 

[Londo]

nydheart, I see you've been visiting here since 2004. You've only got 10 posts since then? That must be some sort of anti-record. I don't think you have the level of hair obsessiveness required to be on this site

Since you keep your head shaved you would be an excellent candidate for topicals. Topical spironolactone might be an adequate replacement for Finasteride until you've conceived your next child. Good luck with that by the way. Do you think you will have any more after that?

Also, if you try topical spironolactone maybe you can give us a good report on its effectiveness. Go see a doctor first though. I don't think topical spironolactone gets absorbed into the system, but I don't know that for sure.

Maybe others can recommend other topicals. I've heard of Fluridil, but I know nothing about it.

As for starting too late, I didn't start until I was 45. I WISH I had started when I was 32. I'd look like KielMcK now :wink: Here is Kiel's story (He has more pics on his myspace page linked on his profile):

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=39724

He uses topical spironolactone on his temples.

 

[nydheart]

Londo, believe me when I was 18 and first started thinning I was SUPER obsessed with it. I would say 14 years ago I was regularly visiting the regrowth site where John Ertel was using some crazy substance called proscar along with minoxidil. and imagine this, nizoral to combat his hair loss. It is a little discouraging to know that nothing has really changed in this period of time. I thought way back then of doing something because it REALLY bothered me. Not a moment would pass when my thinning hair was not on my mind. When you are that young and your hair starts to thin out it really can screw with your head. Anyways, long story short I ended up shaving my head and all my worries went away.

Fast forward to present. I know I could live with a shaved head for the rest of my life, or at least until I don't give a sh*t anymore but I would like to try and see if treatment would do anything for me. Had I started when I first wanted to but was to chicken sh*t to do so I may not be here coversing with you all today! Anyways, being a diffuse thinner in my opinion was better for me in that it always looked like I had hair when my head was shaved. Anywas, I am open to any suggestions for treatments and I don't mind being a bit of a guinny pig for you guys that might be in the same situation as me. I can start some kind of journal or something if that would be any help to people? Hopefully I will be one of the lucky ones to respond to what is available. Thanks for the input!

 

[Londo]

That is too funny that nothing has really changed in 14 years. That is discouraging too. Sometimes I'll see threads talking about some new wonder drug like RU58841 and then I realize that the thread was started years ago. Advances are happening way too slowly. It sounds like everything new is five years out and has been for years.

We are lucky to have finasteride, Min, and Nizoral. They've done well for me. I wish I'd started sooner. I'm sure what stopped me was the price of Propecia and lack of faith. Little did I know you could split up Proscar tablets and save a ton of money.

I've gained a lot of hair, but I have some vellus hairs that are bugging me because I want them to become terminal. I think they will as I've seen them darken gradually, but they are still slow growing. Also, my front is not coming back 100% evenly. There are a couple of spots that are thinner than the rest. No one but me would notice probably.

Give things a shot. What have you got to lose but a little money? (that is all relative, of course) At least we know that finasteride and Min have been in use for years and are fairly safe. spironolactone has been around a long time too. You can keep a journal in the "Tell Your Story" section. Be sure to take lots of pics.

 

[nydheart]

Hey Londo, it looks like you have had some really good success with your regime. Do you think your hair will continue to improve or do you feel at this point you are just going to maintain what has come back? To me it looks like you have gained quite a lot of hair back.

Also, in your experience on this site, do you think that diffuse thinners are more or less likely to regrow hair on the big 3? I have read where people think we are less likely and some think we are more likely to regrow.

Have you had any side effects from the big 3? Thanks!

 

[RaginDemon]

I dont believe your hair can ever go back to its original pre-male pattern baldness stage. The treatment can only regrow your hair to a certain degree. As long as you can pull off with the hair style you like without looking bald, its a great success already IMO.

 

[Londo]

Thanks nydheart. I'm at about 7 months now. Next haircut I'll take some more pics.

I hope I'll get some more hair before I hit the 2 year mark. You never know. I don't think I've improved much more this last 3 months. There are some vellus hairs just above my temples that have been getting darker and longer. I guess those are Minoxidil hairs. Hopefully they will become terminal.

I have nothing to back it up, but I think diffuse thinners might have it better. Seems to me that it would be easier to restart growth in areas that still have hair.

After about a week of starting Propecia I had sore nuts for a week or two. After that my libido shot up for a couple of weeks. I think Mr. Happy is a little smaller now when flaccid. It may be psychological, but my libido may be down from my average before. Some time in the future I'll experiment with .5 and .25mg dosages of Finasteride. I'll give it up altogether if anyone comes out with a topical that works as well.

I've had no shedding that I've noticed. I check my hands when I shampoo. I was seeing about 4 hairs when I started finasteride and Min. Now I see hardly any.

 

[jcosta]

Londo, you're my inspiration. Like you I'm in my 40's, 43 to be exact, and have been experiencing gradual hairloss since I was 18. Currently I am an NW3v approaching NW4v.

I've seen your pics and they look pretty good from the angle in which you took them. I'm curious as to what Norwood state you started from before your treatment and where do you feel you're at now.

I'm starting Fincar (generic Proscar) in a few weeks as soon as it arrives and will start minoxidil treatment as soon as possible. Currently I'm using Nizoral 1% and am in my last days of the hairmax laser comb before I return it. I've only had moderate success, if any, and figured it just wasn't worth the expense.

Also, you have a great sense of humor. I had to learn to laugh at myself just to keep my overpreoccupation with hairloss from driving me crazy at the outset of my male pattern baldness.

I feel sorry for some of these younger guys who feel like their life is coming to an end in light of their pending hairloss. I can really relate to how they feel. Thank God I have a wife who tells me I'm still handsome which helps a great deal as I fast approach my mid-life crisis.

Anyhow, would love to hear from you and good luck with your treatment.

 

[Londo]

Thanks jcosta. I'd say I've gone from a very diffuse Norwood 2V to a simply diffuse Norwood 2V.

I had my hair buzzed to a #1 (1/8 inch) in July. I've decided that I don't like my hair between a #3 (3/8 inch) buzz and 1 inch long as it really shows the diffuseness. My baseline pics were taken at about 3/4 inch long. I couldn't have picked a worse length as baseline.

You have to have a sense of humor about these things. I have my good, bad, and obsessive days. It's good to vent on these boards and know you aren't alone.

 

[jcosta]

Amen, brother! I only wish they had this technology back in the early 80's when I assume, you were also going through the hairloss process. People today have no idea just how lucky they are that they are able to tackle this problem early on. As they keep saying, the earlier, the better.

Actually, you probably remember that forums like this, let alone the internet weren't available in those days. I had to raid my university library to get any information on this.

I remember a time that I met with a salesman, in a hotel room no less, that was selling a "miracle cure" for hairloss (thank God that was all he was selling). minoxidil wasn't even on the scene in those days.I didn't buy the product but I was subjected to the hard sell tactic of the day because he could sense my desperation with my pending doom! I can't remember what exactly tipped me off that this was nothing more than a "snake oil" cure. So I got out of there as fast as I could.

Now, fast forward to today with all the FDA approved products which as many people here claim, do WORK! But the elusive "miracle cure" still eludes us after so many years.

That same salesman that I met in that hotel room is now much more sophisticated with a lot more vibrant and powerful marketing tool which can dupe the most desperate amongst us (including yours truly). Anybody remember, Avacor?? They got me!! Oh, I forgot, they're still around...

Sorry for the short history lesson Londo and gang. I wanted to remind the younger ones amongst us that the quest for the miracle cure goes back a long way. However there are some exciting prospects just beyond the horizon. Hair multiplication anyone?

Until then Londo, we'll just have to keep each other supported and informed as best we can in the battle against male pattern baldness. Good luck from one 3v'er to another. I still say your hair looks pretty good in the pics.

 

[RaginDemon]

I think diffusive thinner has more risks than receeders...they have the potential to go completely bald in a much more rapid rate.