QR678 injections

[ajax]

Seems to be stories about this kicking around on other forums from about October last year, so not sure what to make if it?

If its been around for 6 months then why is there still very little information about it? why haven't they patented their formula in that time?

 

[Rabid]

At Rs 5000 a shot, QR 678 helps lost hair grow back
....

His concoction is imported from Italy, costing Rs 25,000. "If the patient wants own stem cells to be derived from own fat cells, then cost goes up four times," he adds.
...

So it says they are using stem cells? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Pretty misleading title. Mark_india neglected to mention the additional costs underlined.

 

[mark_india]

At Rs 5000 a shot, QR 678 helps lost hair grow back
....

His concoction is imported from Italy, costing Rs 25,000. "If the patient wants own stem cells to be derived from own fat cells, then cost goes up four times," he adds.
...

So it says they are using stem cells? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Pretty misleading title. Mark_india neglected to mention the additional costs underlined.

Don't get confused between the two completely different articles, as I said before, what Ajax posted is not one but two articles, the one you are referring to is not by dr. shome, and it is not what I am getting. Why would I hide any cost.

 

[Innermind]

See http://www.theestheticclinic.com/cosmet ... earch.html

And look at patient two. His "swirl" goes in a different direction. This raises a red flag for me and I have to question to legitmacy of the picture and of course the product. Please someone confirm that this is evidence of fraud.

 

[Aks20]

Hi that pic doesnt appear to be doctored TBH - just appears to a combing effect.

My primary concerns are about safety of injecting proteins into the scalp.

Mark - did you meet Dr Shome, was he categorical about safety? They were trying for FDA approval, any idea when it would come about? Also, did he say the injections would stop hairfall. I cannot use Finasteride, I had severe side effects within a day of using it. :-(

http://debrajshome.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... tor-story/
http://debrajshome.wordpress.com/2010/1 ... -678-faqs/

I know he says it is safe because they are just injecting proteins depleted in the scalp back to the scalp, but I am sht scared because of the potential the proteins may cause something else. Hence, a FDA approval of any sort would go a long way to reduce my fears. At rate which I am balding, I have moved from NW2 (2006) to NW4-5 (2011) and will be NW6 in few more years since I cannot use Finasteride

Mark - Also, may I contact you over PM (if you could send me your email). I am based out of India, and your help would be invaluable.

 

[mark_india]

So far he is giving this injection for over a year with no side effects. And I haven't experienced any side effect so far from injections. Some from finasteride none from minoxidil.

I agree the second photo is from different angle, but I don't think this guy is fraud, you can see his photo receiving best research of year award from president of India who was scientist himself. So he does hold credibility. Look at his profile http://www.theestheticclinic.com/about- ... shome.html

Aks20 you can pm me for any more info you need. I would say my male pattern baldness is or was going at the same rate as yours. I hope this will at least give me some results.

 

[ajax]

I've been thinking about this and these are my concerns:

1) Why no patent even after its been around for over 6 months?

2) Where are the published journals and research relating to this product? If it really is a "cure" then its worth millions, if not billions! Wouldn't you be proving to the world that you had just found an amazing "cure"?

3) Why minoxidil? I understand using finasteride, as the new hair might not be DHT resistant, but why minoxidil? It just makes absolutely no sense?! How can you possibly judge the effectiveness of a hair growth product if you are also applying another hair growth product at the same time?!

This just seems like utter BS to me.

Shame as I was quite excited when I 1st started reading this thread.

Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, but the minoxidil just makes absolutely no sense and the other 2 points dont add up at all.

 

[mark_india]

1) I don't know why no patents so far? they wrote that they are on the way of making worldwide patent. Considering vast Generic makers in india, as soon as he tell the contents of the injection, we will have several companies starting the production of it with individual brand name. Like Generic finasteride / minoxidil I am using.

2) Probably since because internet / blogging etc is not hat popular in this part of the world, assuming only 700-1000 people only underwent this treatment so far. You can not expect pictures floating around on internet, considering fact the it takes 4-6 months to show any good results. And if people are satisfied with the result, they will never post anything. I can also say counter argument that since none of them felt being scammed so none cared to post their pics.

3) Why minoxidil? may be because it is complimenting the treatment, why are you comparing it like minoxidil and GF injections are same thing, minoxidil increase the blood flow, so GF injection would give better result if the scalp has proper flow channels, since one can not inject GF in each and every follicles they have to rely on healthy blood flow, thats why minoxidil.

I guess time will tell if this is BS or not,

For me due to my long delay in starting any proper treatment, I took the risk and hope my $800 is not wasted. Will know it in Six months from now.

 

[ajax]

1) I don't know why no patents so far? they wrote that they are on the way of making worldwide patent. Considering vast Generic makers in india, as soon as he tell the contents of the injection, we will have several companies starting the production of it with individual brand name. Like Generic finasteride / minoxidil I am using.

2) Probably since because internet / blogging etc is not hat popular in this part of the world, assuming only 700-1000 people only underwent this treatment so far. You can not expect pictures floating around on internet, considering fact the it takes 4-6 months to show any good results. And if people are satisfied with the result, they will never post anything. I can also say counter argument that since none of them felt being scammed so none cared to post their pics.

3) Why minoxidil? may be because it is complimenting the treatment, why are you comparing it like minoxidil and GF injections are same thing, minoxidil increase the blood flow, so GF injection would give better result if the scalp has proper flow channels, since one can not inject GF in each and every follicles they have to rely on healthy blood flow, thats why minoxidil.

I guess time will tell if this is BS or not,

For me due to my long delay in starting any proper treatment, I took the risk and hope my $800 is not wasted. Will know it in Six months from now.

Hi Mark, I dont blame you for giving it a go, if it really does work then its great news for you and many other hair loss sufferers.

Unfortunately people's willingness to try something unproven at hundreds of dollars means that there are a lot of people out there willing to cash in on their hopes, so we must be very careful with new "wonder drugs".

In regards to your responses to my points I'd just like to offer my view point.

1) I honestly dont understand much about patents, and understand that in India people can make very good generics without any legal action. However they have stated they are persuing getting a patent... why hasn't this happened yet, does anyone know how long it takes from applying for a patent, to it coming through? Why didnt they patent their product before releasing it on the market? Isnt that normal business practice?

2) Sorry I didnt mean people writing about their experience... what I meant was scientific journals and research in to the product? They state that they carried out extensive human trials... where is the documented evidence of this? So far all we have is their word that they did this, and nothing more (correct me if I am wrong). This isn't how real effective products come to market. Why have they chosen to not release anything, or submit anything for peer review?

3) minoxidil may help the product be more effective, or actually it might hide the fact the product doesn't do anything. It seems really fishy that a supposed hair growth product requires you to add another hair growth product for you to see results! How can anyone know if the results are from just the minoxidil alone? Its like me saying I can prevent your hair loss by blowing on your scalp, but you should take propecia too because that will help it work even better! :whistle:


This isn't an attack on you, I hope it doesn't come across like that... what I am trying to point out is that there are major problems with the product information out there. Can anyone offer something that shows I am wrong?

I really hope they can because I would love a non invasive product like this to be real as it would be a wonderful thing!

Mark would you be willing to ask them these questions? Good luck anyway with this treatment... even if its just the minoxidil thats giving you hair growth then i'm happy that something is working for you unk:

 

[baldinglikeamofo]

is that peach fuzz in the picture ever grow any longer than just tiny fuzzy hairs? Because if it doesnt, its probably just minoxidil

I think 5% minoxidil will take months to work, but mark is saying he is using 10%. How many times a day do you use it?

 

[Aks20]

Mark, sent you a PM. Please check, thanks

 

[JugZ]

Not too sure of this supposed treatment.

The fact that you were prescribed both finasteride and minoxidil as well does not bode well for this treatment.

You now cannot determine which treatment is actually giving results when/if the results appear.

Seems a bit suspect that finasteride is prescribed along side this. Not convinced at all

 

[philosophersStone]

Mark,

Don't disappear from this forum, please. As you see results, keep us updated. You would be doing everyone a great service.

 

[mark_india]

is that peach fuzz in the picture ever grow any longer than just tiny fuzzy hairs? Because if it doesnt, its probably just minoxidil

I think 5% minoxidil will take months to work, but mark is saying he is using 10%. How many times a day do you use it?

peach fuzz use to grow long like few long hair in the first pic, but in last few years the amount of longer hair reduced from hundreds to handfull.

Using minoxidil 10% daily at bed time, so as 1mg finasteride daily, sometime skipping one or two days in week.

JugZ, I still think these drugs are streangthing the treatment, if the method of action of each finasteride / minoxidil / QR678 is completely different why we need to compare them, I agree it will be hard to know which one is working. Only solution to this problem is to see the results, they should be more dramatic compare to best results one can get only from finasteride/minoxidil (preferably from someone who started late and used only for few months).

Ajax, we need to be aware that this is research of a doctor not a company, may be thats why it is not yet patent. There is no value / usefulness of patents in our country, it is only when you want market it internationally. If he wanted he would have published it, he already have lot of papers on his name.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=DetailsSearch&term=debraj+shome&log$=activity

philosophersStone, yep I am still here.

 

[ajax]

is that peach fuzz in the picture ever grow any longer than just tiny fuzzy hairs? Because if it doesnt, its probably just minoxidil

I think 5% minoxidil will take months to work, but mark is saying he is using 10%. How many times a day do you use it?

peach fuzz use to grow long like few long hair in the first pic, but in last few years the amount of longer hair reduced from hundreds to handfull.

Using minoxidil 10% daily at bed time, so as 1mg finasteride daily, sometime skipping one or two days in week.

JugZ, I still think these drugs are streangthing the treatment, if the method of action of each finasteride / minoxidil / QR678 is completely different why we need to compare them, I agree it will be hard to know which one is working. Only solution to this problem is to see the results, they should be more dramatic compare to best results one can get only from finasteride/minoxidil (preferably from someone who started late and used only for few months).

Ajax, we need to be aware that this is research of a doctor not a company, may be thats why it is not yet patent. There is no value / usefulness of patents in our country, it is only when you want market it internationally. If he wanted he would have published it, he already have lot of papers on his name.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=DetailsSearch&term=debraj+shome&log$=activity

philosophersStone, yep I am still here.

Hi Mark,

I'm not convinced by this product if I'm honest... however I'll keep my fingers crossed that it is legit, and that the results you are seeing aren't just from the minoxidil alone, as it would be a very exciting treatment if this thing is real!

Keep us updated on your progress... we all would appreciate it!

In the mean time I will try and contact the company myself to find out answers to my concerns. I will post any answers I receive here.

 

[baldinglikeamofo]

When those tiny fuzzy hairs grow to be as big as your other hairs, then I will be convinced. It will be interesting how things go.

Keep us updated!!!

 

[smitysmity]

Honestly though, someone with his stage of hair loss, does not usually see these kinds of results from finasteride anmd minoxidil, especially in such a short time span.

Best just to have surgery at this point really.

 

[mark_india]

I already asked Dr if I can do hair transplant at this point, he told me to wait 6 to 8 months and see the growth / thickness, his views are surgery at this point will harm the growing follicles, that is the process of planting the grafts, if I wait I will require lesser number of grafts, may be half as per his views.

I need about 4000 grafts as per my consultation one with one hair transplant Doctor few months ago. So lets see.

 

[smitysmity]

4000 grafts as per my consultation one with one hair transplant Doctor few months ago. So lets see.

Can't wait until they can just clone our hair, then we truly don't need to do any of these injections anymore.

 

[ajax]

I sent this e-mail to them on Wednesday 11th May... I haven't received a reply yet, but will post if I do.

I think if they don't respond it casts further doubts on the validity of the product IMO, so I hope they do reply and answer all the questions I asked:


Hi,


Firstly let me congratulate you on your discovery and success with QR678! It seems to be creating quite a buzz in the hair loss world!



I have been chatting to one of your clients on a hair loss forum and they seem to be getting good early results from your treatment, and as such there are a few of us who are taking note, but would like more information if that is possible?



I have a series of questions, and I hope you can answer them, I apologise if some sound strange but I have little knowledge of how things work when it comes to bringing products to market:



1) Will this treatment be available outside of India any time soon? I live in the UK and know people in the USA who are also watching this products progress with excited anticipation. However due to the length of time required between each injection, travelling to India is out of the question.

2) I understand from reading articles dated late 2010 that you are actively pursuing a patent for QR678, how is this progressing?

3) Also why is the patent being applied for after the product has been brought to market in India? Is it normal to do this, as I think in the UK companies patent their work before release?

4) I have read that you managed to test safety of the product and effectiveness in clinical human trials before bringing the product to market, this is excellent news! Please could you provide me with a link to the findings? I have read bits on the internet, but usually it is possible to view the actual full trial documentation with released products I think?

5) It seems clients are asked to use Finasteride and Minoxidil after treatment, I was wondering if you could explain why? Am I right in thinking that any new hair will still be affected by DHT, and that is why you prescribe Finasteride? I could understand this, as the product doesn’t move hair from a DHT resistant part of the head like a hair transplant does. I’m confused by the use of Minoxidil though? How can you judge the effectiveness of QR678 if you are also using another hair growth stimulator? Do you have a way of determining how much new hair has grown due to QR678, and how much from Minoxidil?

6) Also did you use Minoxidil and Finasteride during the clinical trials? If so did you also have a test group who used only QR678, and a group who only used Minoxidil and Finasteride to compare the efficiency of QR678?

7) As the product is injected in to the scalp, do you see any problems with releasing the product in Europe and the USA, and would it have to go through long and very expensive trials by the FDA? Or will it be seen as a cosmetic product and not require this?



Thank you for taking the time to read my questions. Like I said your product is creating a bit of a buzz in the hair loss world, and a lot of us would love to find out more information regarding the product.