Propecia long term effectiveness

[jd_uk]

From another forum:

"Propecia doesn't fix the problem--it just creates a virtual dam against DHT that will eventually overflow. I've seen very few cases where Propecia is still effective after 5 to 9 years. A theory is that it increases the sensitivity of your androgen receptors which means it may be actually making it all that much easier for your hair to fall out. It's a double-edged sword, and most importantly, a poison. The long-term effects are not good ones so based on the personal experience I've had with it and research to accompany it--I'd say it's something to be wary of."


Comments please?

 

[Rawtashk]

1 person (who I would wager isn't a doctor or biologist) and their personal opinion. Besides, I'll be happy if I keep my hair through my 20's and then lose it when I'm in my 30's.

Actually, that's a lie. It's going to suck whenever I lose my hair, but at least my 20's will be an enjoyable experience that didn't require wearing a hat 24/7

 

[tbforever]

You should def ask for some more details from this guy.

 

[jd_uk]

1 person (who I would wager isn't a doctor or biologist) and their personal opinion. Besides, I'll be happy if I keep my hair through my 20's and then lose it when I'm in my 30's.

Actually, that's a lie. It's going to suck whenever I lose my hair, but at least my 20's will be an enjoyable experience that didn't require wearing a hat 24/7

I'm after general comments from people on here based on their own experiences and their knowledge about:

- whether finasteride effectiveness 'wears off',
- whether it can actually make androgen receptors more sensitive increasing hair loss when the effectiveness wears off

You seem to take any negative comments about finasteride almost as a personal attack. Also, you make out like you're happy but you post even on your own 'success' thread how you're worrying about your hairline not being good enough. I've spoken to quite a few guys who really don't give a sh*t about being bald - they say the process of going bald sucked but now they're happy because they just don't think about it. I have no reason to doubt them. Oh and they don't wear hats (as if that's the only alternative!)

 

[Rawtashk]

Did you see the pic of my brother @ 23? I'm freakin ECSTATIC that I don't look like that. Would I like my hairline to be stronger? Yes. Am I sad at the current state of my hair? Hell no!


You said "Comments please". I gave you a comment.

Then you said "I'm after general comments from people on here based on their own experiences..." I'm pretty sure that's what I did.

The fact that you instantly assumed I was bashing something makes me thing that you're pretty defensive. I'm sure you'll get some negative comments in here too, since it seems like that's what you're looking for.

 

[jd_uk]

Did you see the pic of my brother @ 23? I'm freakin ECSTATIC that I don't look like that. Would I like my hairline to be stronger? Yes. Am I sad at the current state of my hair? Hell no!


You said "Comments please". I gave you a comment.

Then you said "I'm after general comments from people on here based on their own experiences..." I'm pretty sure that's what I did.

The fact that you instantly assumed I was bashing something makes me thing that you're pretty defensive. I'm sure you'll get some negative comments in here too, since it seems like that's what you're looking for.

Wtf. Seriously.

I doesn't take a genius to work out that I'm after info on whether it loses effectiveness and can make hair loss worse in the long run. You 'commenting' that you'll be happy if it just holds your hair loss off for a bit gives absolutely no insight.

and stating you're glad you don't look like your brother holds no relevance to what I said - there are guys who are happy bald, you worry about your hairline yet use propecia...point is that it is possible to be happy with your having no hair at all - to me that is a greater success than temporarily keeping your hair with a drug which <insert post on other thread which you have not replied to here>

 

[slurms mackenzie]

From another forum:

"Propecia doesn't fix the problem--it just creates a virtual dam against DHT that will eventually overflow. I've seen very few cases where Propecia is still effective after 5 to 9 years. A theory is that it increases the sensitivity of your androgen receptors which means it may be actually making it all that much easier for your hair to fall out. It's a double-edged sword, and most importantly, a poison. The long-term effects are not good ones so based on the personal experience I've had with it and research to accompany it--I'd say it's something to be wary of."


Comments please?

It worked for me for more than five years.

I believe i did get sides after about 8 years (discovered by accident after i'd given up through lazyness / cockiness)

The theory about up regulation of the androgen remains just that i believe.

The poster is correct in saying it's something to be wary of, he might not mean don't take it, it just means look out for any side effects such as loss of morning wood.

The dam analogy could be misleading though. It lowers DHT it doesn't block it.

 

[jd_uk]

[quote="jd_uk":1dwtbxr2]From another forum:

"Propecia doesn't fix the problem--it just creates a virtual dam against DHT that will eventually overflow. I've seen very few cases where Propecia is still effective after 5 to 9 years. A theory is that it increases the sensitivity of your androgen receptors which means it may be actually making it all that much easier for your hair to fall out. It's a double-edged sword, and most importantly, a poison. The long-term effects are not good ones so based on the personal experience I've had with it and research to accompany it--I'd say it's something to be wary of."


Comments please?

It worked for me for more than five years.

I believe i did get sides after about 8 years (discovered by accident after i'd given up through lazyness / cockiness)

The theory about up regulation of the androgen remains just that i believe.

The poster is correct in saying it's something to be wary of, he might not mean don't take it, it just means look out for any side effects such as loss of morning wood.

The dam analogy could be misleading though. It lowers DHT it doesn't block it.[/quote:1dwtbxr2]


Cheers. When you say you got sides but didn't realise til later, what do you mean? I've heard a few people say the same.

 

[Rawtashk]

Again, jd_uk, you look at my post and ignore a majority of it, or perhaps you just turn your brain off so that you can rant at me.

You said "You make out like you're happy but you post even on your own 'success' thread how you're worrying about your hairline not being good enough." I posted a very simple explanation to clarify that, and then you say "stating you're glad you don't look like your brother holds no relevance to what I said."

Wow, just....wow.

 

[slurms mackenzie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog[/url]

I wouldn't advise people against using finasteride, it was pretty much business as usual for the first 5 - 7 years, what i would advise is that after a couple of years people take a slight break (maybe taper off), so they remember what life off finasteride is like.

Plus if people get on it now there's a really good chance in 5-7 years they'll be able to replace it with something better anyway.

 

[jd_uk]

Again, jd_uk, you look at my post and ignore a majority of it, or perhaps you just turn your brain off so that you can rant at me.

You said "You make out like you're happy but you post even on your own 'success' thread how you're worrying about your hairline not being good enough." I posted a very simple explanation to clarify that, and then you say "stating you're glad you don't look like your brother holds no relevance to what I said."

Wow, just....wow.

Can't be bothered to get into a petty debate but all i will say is that your post clearly wasn't helpful to the questions in the thread. I think you posted it because of what has been said on another thread. You should have responded there.

 

[jd_uk]

From another forum:

"Propecia doesn't fix the problem--it just creates a virtual dam against DHT that will eventually overflow. I've seen very few cases where Propecia is still effective after 5 to 9 years. A theory is that it increases the sensitivity of your androgen receptors which means it may be actually making it all that much easier for your hair to fall out. It's a double-edged sword, and most importantly, a poison. The long-term effects are not good ones so based on the personal experience I've had with it and research to accompany it--I'd say it's something to be wary of."


Comments please?

I personally think this is a load of crap. There will be no overflow and how the hell can there be an overflow of DHT if it has been reduced by 70%! and there is no evidence that it wil be easier for the hair to fall out unless you stop taking propecia.

Prove me wrong and back up this strong statement with some evidence.

I think the analogy you're misunderstanding the analogy of an 'virtual dam'. I read it to mean that eventually even blocking the DHT to 30% or whatever will not be enough to win the war against your genetics.

I have no idea if the statement posted is true - that's why I'm asking the question. It does seem to be in keeping with a lot of other info I've read though. I think the Dr on balding blog has said before that propecia will eventually not be enough to counter hair loss but if the user stops then there will be a catch up of hair loss which can be pretty shocking.

 

[slurms mackenzie]

From another forum:

"Propecia doesn't fix the problem--it just creates a virtual dam against DHT that will eventually overflow. I've seen very few cases where Propecia is still effective after 5 to 9 years. A theory is that it increases the sensitivity of your androgen receptors which means it may be actually making it all that much easier for your hair to fall out. It's a double-edged sword, and most importantly, a poison. The long-term effects are not good ones so based on the personal experience I've had with it and research to accompany it--I'd say it's something to be wary of."


Comments please?

I personally think this is a load of crap. There will be no overflow and how the hell can there be an overflow of DHT if it has been reduced by 70%! and there is no evidence that it wil be easier for the hair to fall out unless you stop taking propecia.

Prove me wrong and back up this strong statement with some evidence.

I think the analogy you're misunderstanding the analogy of an 'virtual dam'. I read it to mean that eventually even blocking the DHT to 30% or whatever will not be enough to win the war against your genetics.

I have no idea if the statement posted is true - that's why I'm asking the question. It does seem to be in keeping with a lot of other info I've read though. I think the Dr on balding blog has said before that propecia will eventually not be enough to counter hair loss but if the user stops then there will be a catch up of hair loss which can be pretty shocking.

A discussion on mutations of the Androgen Receptor.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=63108&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=mutation

From personal experience i'm not convinced the doctor on balding blog has the facts at his disposal, i don't think the studies have been done, unlike minoxidil (correct me if i'm wrong here please bryan)

In theory if someone used Propecia for 5 - 10 years and the quit which happens, they'd then get 10 years hair loss in a short time, I'm pretty sure you'd hear about this more.

 

[ripple-effect]

Yes, the effectiveness of propecia eventually does decrease as proven by this chart. At the 2 year mark it starts to go downhill in hair count. In about 8-10 years propecia users will reach baseline(back to where they started prior to using propecia).

http://www.regrowshair.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/mean_change_crossover_data_chart.gif


As to why it happens no one really knows. I think the best theory I've heard was that your body adapts to the low DHT levels by making the receptors more sensitive.

 

[jd_uk]

wow, adds even mpre weight to the 'just shave it off'philosophy. if finasteride only lasts a handful of years and can make your hair even more sensitive, as well as the reducedhormone levels then i'm pretty put off it.

 

[Rawtashk]

Your idea of "a handful" might not be the same to other people. That "handful" of years most likely encompasses the prime of your life. A lot of the people that would take finasteride are the aggressive balders in their 20's, which is an important stage of your life. That's when a lot of people get married and start on their careers. Both of those things take some amount of self-confidence, and premature balding gives your self-confidence a real hit.

Now, if you're one of those "OMG! finasteride is horrible and you will never recover from any sides that you get!!!" doom and gloomers, then nothing I say will ever make even the slightest difference for you. But hopefully people out there will do their own research instead of only listening to your doom and gloom (or my cheery outlook, for that matter).

 

[metadalll]

that one guy in success stories came back to post after like 9 years and his hair is maybe better than baseline

 

[Bryan]

Yes, the effectiveness of propecia eventually does decrease as proven by this chart. At the 2 year mark it starts to go downhill in hair count. In about 8-10 years propecia users will reach baseline(back to where they started prior to using propecia).

Yes, haircounts may tend to drop a tad after a few years of Propecia, but that pales in comparison to how haircounts of non-Propecia users drop in the same period of time. Why do you so conveniently fail to mention that Propecia, while less than perfect, still dramatically slows the balding process? :smack:

 

[wilderness20]

WTF? I thought finasteride kept your hair long term?

 

[drunkmonkey425]

Being back at baseline after 10 years doesn't sound too bad to me. That's ten years of more hair (hopefully) than I had to start with, I'd like to see what happens after you return to baseline, continued slowww balding I'm guessing, or maybe it would just level off.

Definitely puts me off a hair transplant though