Prevalence Study: Correlation between male pattern baldness and ejaculation frequency

[optimystic]

Hi people
Given my personal recent finding (based on myself) that decreasing ejaculation frequency over 6 months decreases male pattern baldness, I tried to look up studies that might verify that my finding is more than just placebo.
Unfortunately I found some conflicting data, and none of it is that strong due to:
-Poor reporting and segregation of data e.g. arbitrary seperation of high ejaculation frequency vs. normal ejaculation ferquency into 2 groups
-Poor population choice e.g. including only men >40
-Conflicting data e.g. finding that DHT is reduced with decreased ejaculation frequency however no evidence that decreasing ejaculation has positive effect on male pattern baldness

So as a curious med student (due to receive my MD in a few months) who would like a bit more data on the topic I would like to conduct a prevalence study, even if it is just an unofficial online survey with a result that will be low yield and insignificant anyway.

This is the weakest type of study because even if the data is strong and a solid correlation is found between ejaculation frequency and male pattern baldness, one can not make the assumption that decreasing ejaculation frequency will decrease hair loss from this study. Nor can one refute that statement from the data that will be collected.

At best, we might say there is a correlation between ejaculation frequency and male pattern baldness, but that correlation will be of unknown significance.

Still, it would be interesting to know.

Please answer the poll with as little bias as possible. And only answer if you truly have male pattern baldness.

The control population data for people without male pattern baldness will consider an average ejaculation frequency of 4 times per week (based on reported population studies)

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Note the reason I set the options like this is that when i calculate the results i will use the mean of the option given
E.g. 1-2x per week will be calculated as 1.5x per week

I will calculate the mean and standard deviation of the findings of this survey (which will count as the male pattern baldness group), and post my calculations and results comparing to the non-male pattern baldness group (which will be considered the general population)

Some Limitations of the study:
1) Even if a strong correlation is established, this will NOT establish a causal relationship. It could be that one factor (elevated DHT) causes both increased male pattern baldness and increased masturbation. It could even be that increased male pattern baldness causes increased masturbation.
A strong correlation only ALLOWS THE POSSIBILITY that increased masturbation could cause increased male pattern baldness.

2) In comparing the study group taking the survey (people with male pattern baldness) to the general population's ejaculation frequencies, the assumption is being made that the general population is free of male pattern baldness.
Since it is known that the general population has 20-40% prevalence of male pattern baldness, this will lead to a MORE CONSERVATIVE correlation (if one actually exists).
This is because I could not find statistics of ejaculation frequency among ONLY those WITHOUT male pattern baldness.

I will explain calculations and results with other limitations after I gather the data.
For now just answer the survey if you have male pattern baldness.

 

[optimystic]

Why what's wrong with this?
If you already have data that might help shed light on the topic please do share.
But I have looked it up a fair deal, and everything I read is either "it's an old wives tale" vs. "masturbation increases hair loss"

And then of course there's the "masturbation is healthy for you" which is a fairly exaggerated statement based on studies showing that prostate cancer risk decreases with higher ejaculation frequency.
(The correct statement is "having a healthy masturbation frequency of at least twice weekly is indicative of healthy prostate function, which is associated with decreased risk of prostate cancer")

As far as what healthy masturbation frequency is, there is no consensus on that either. You will find answers ranging from an average of 2-5x per week to "there is no unhealthy amount".

So yes, I think on a serious note despite it being a sensitive, eccentric, and somewhat funny topic, i think understanding the association between ejaculation frequency and male pattern baldness might shed important light into the pathophysiology of male pattern baldness, and especially the expression patterns of male pattern baldness.

How silly would I feel as someone working in a scientific field trying to figure out why some people in my family started experiencing male pattern baldness in their 20s-30s, while others didn't start till their 40s-50s, if the answer turns out to be that different sexual habits and ejaculation frequency over the long term caused significant fluctuations in DHT enough to alter the progression of male pattern baldness between one family member and another who otherwise have the same susceptibility of their hair follicles to DHT?

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Not. This. Again.

And it's not really cool that you'll take a few seconds to express your cynicism on the topic but you won't take a second to answer the poll.
If you already have the answer, please share it. If you don't have the answer, please help find it.
We do all have a mutual interest in finding answers related to hair loss.

 

[psyhotria]

Yeah a well known topic... and the usual suspects (hi!). So, yeah, I voted for less than once/w, in fact I will be staying (my goal) clear for three months. However, ejection is not necessary to affect hair; anything from "getting horny" up to ejection will do the trick.. However, full turn will have the greatest effect on hair of course.. and doing it several times consecutively will be even worse. And don't forget, there are people with male pattern baldness in whom sex is an effector vs hair (exciter of male pattern baldness), while, otoh, it *seems* in most people (with male pattern baldness) it is not an effector at all.. (just another twist to the same old story, eh?)

 

[Quantum Cat]

This again? this is as stupid and pointless a debate as the 'does diet and lifestyle cause male pattern baldness?' one.

Are we supposed to believe that all bald men are rampant sex maniacs, while all men with full heads of hair are celibate?


male pattern baldness is a genetic disorder. End of discussion

 

[psyhotria]

male pattern baldness is a genetic disorder.

No doubt. However it can be an exciter of male pattern baldness.

 

[optimystic]

Yeah a well known topic... and the usual suspects (hi!). So, yeah, I voted for less than once/w, in fact I will be staying (my goal) clear for three months. However, ejection is not necessary to affect hair; anything from "getting horny" up to ejection will do the trick.. However, full turn will have the greatest effect on hair of course.. and doing it several times consecutively will be even worse. And don't forget, there are people with male pattern baldness in whom sex is an effector vs hair (exciter of male pattern baldness), while otoh it *seems* in most people (with male pattern baldness) it is not an effector at all.. (just another twist to the same old story, eh?)

I don't think staying clear for 3 months is necessary, or even beneficial.
It could be that ejaculating too infrequently will cause a rise in DHT as well, as a response mechanism to your body's sexual cycle going dormant?


So far my theory on the whole ejaculation, DHT and male pattern baldness thing is this:
1) Everyone's hair might be susceptible to DHT with different extents. Most people have little susceptibility and only exhibit balding patters as they age significantly. Others have hair that is moderately susceptible. Very few or rare cases have hair that is extremely susceptible, because if hair was EXTREMELY susceptible in some and MODERATELY susceptible in others, then a part of the population would be NW5 by age 20.
2) In those who ARE susceptible to male pattern baldness, what determines rate of hair loss is the level of DHT. And the level of DHT has a bigger environmental factor than genetic factor.
This explains why in families who might have genes with the same susceptibility of the hair follicle to DHT, different family members start balding at different ages.
This also explains the bi-modal ages of male pattern baldness presentation. Many start showing symptoms in their late teens and early 20s, when DHT would be elevated due to sexual activity.
And many start showing symptoms only after age 40+, when the prostate is getting larger with time and more DHT is being synthesized with time (which would explain why these old people who have had full head of hair in their 30s start slowly losing their hair after 40)
3) Maybe this is taking it too far, but I'll mention it anyway. Perhaps the reason that male pattern baldness seems to be getting more prevalent in younger generations, is the increasingly uncontrolled sexual behavior? With the rise of internet p**rn use and easy access, masturbation frequency could very well be increasing across generations, causing male pattern baldness to be expressed earlier?

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This again? this is as stupid and pointless a debate as the 'does diet and lifestyle cause male pattern baldness?' one.

Are we supposed to believe that all bald men are rampant sex maniacs, while all men with full heads of hair are celibate?


male pattern baldness is a genetic disorder. End of discussion

I'm sorry but I can't accept this answer easily due to the following reasons:

1) I'm not proposing that sex\ejaculation causes balding in ALL men. Just like elevated DHT will not cause balding in ALL men. Only those who are susceptible.
I'm proposing that there might be a long term relationship between sexual habits and DHT level control.
2) I don't know how much "rampant" is. And i don't know if masturbation has the same effect as sex on DHT levels. I am assuming that ejaculation is ejaculation, because it makes sense to me (i've had sex and i've masturbated with similar intensities, how does my endocrine system tell the difference between my right hand and a vagina? And does that really matter to DHT?)
So in terms of ejaculation, you could be having sex three times a week, which is a 150 times per year (which is rampant sex if you are a single man) but in terms of ejaculation and effect on DHT that might be perfectly healthy and much better than masturbating once daily or even more (which would lead to 300-500 ejaculations per year or more)
3) i don't know if ejaculating too infrequently could cause a reactive rise in DHT which could be equally detrimental to ejaculating too frequently?
4) To call something a genetic disease you need to know it's transmission, and the mode of transmission of male pattern baldness is not completely known. The proper term is to call male pattern baldness a FAMILIAL disorder, or say that it's transmission has a GENETIC COMPONENT.
If you want to call it a genetic disorder, you need to be able to tell me whether it's autosomal or sex linked, dominant or recessive, and if i send the mapped DNA sequence of a 5 year old to a geneticist he should be able to tell me if that individual will grow up to have male pattern baldness or not. Sorry, but this is not the case. Not yet anyway.

 

[psyhotria]

@optimystic No, to see benefits I'd usually need to go off for 2-3 weeks and upwards. But one has to go beyond 1 week because there is a seven day cycle of rising testosterone (after an ejaculation) if no further ejaculation has been performed, before the final fall off to baseline (normally). But I just want to see the effect and test some theory. But I think that you are too focused on dht; dht can be easily antagonised by enzyme inhibitors, and androgen action in general by androgen receptor antagonists. But in my experience non of these will antagonise the detrimental effect (I have used spironolactone internally and dutasteride and still use finasteride - spironolactone was great for my hair at low dose like 25-50mg, but could do nothing to stop what we are talking about here). It is inflammation that acutely "hurts" susceptible hair organs. Possibly or likely prostagladins (i.e. pgd2 is involved in the whole process) or some other inflammatory mediators.

 

[optimystic]

I'm not sure you are correct psyhotria because testosterone increasing within one week is not equivalent to DHT increasing.
Moreover, I don't think any study has demonstrated the long term effects of abstaining from ejaculation on DHT. What if your baseline DHT level goes up if you start experiencing wet dreams without ejaculating?
The reason I am focused on DHT, is because those drugs (dutasteride and finasteride) work. We know for sure it is the DHT causing the inflammation. But those drugs have side effects and more over we don't know if they are lowering DHT enough or too much.
As for prostaglandin playing a role, inflammatory mediators play a role in many different types of inflammation. But it is the inflammatory inducer that you have to take care of.
E.g. a bee sting will cause inflammation and cause alot neutrophils and non specific inflammatory mediators(interleukins, cytokines, prostaglandins) and in a few people who are allergic and suffer anaphylaxis they will have a rush of IgE and eosinophils
But the answer for them is not anti-IgE or anti-Eosinophils. They need to avoid the toxin responsible for the inflammatory response.
Many people are never stung by bees, so they might be allergic and not know it.
This is the approach I'm taking when it comes to male pattern baldness. I don't want to focus too much on the susceptibility of the hair.
In my family, there are alot of overweight people. I am a lean person, but for a while i did let myself go and gain abit of weight and it all went to my belly, something called central obesity which is much worse than generalized obesity (it's associated with pulmonary hypertension and many more comorbidities).
As a result, compared to the average joe that will just get a bit flabby when his BMI reaches 27, my health is compromised much more if my BMI reaches 27.
The solution for me has just been to take care of my weight despite being a fit person, I just have to stay fit.

It just might be like that when it comes to male pattern baldness. Perhaps there is a certain "fitness" people who are prone to male pattern baldness need to maintain. Some things to me already make sense in terms of fitness to reduce male pattern baldness, such as reduce stress and depression and eat healthy organic food (vitamins are important for hair and nail growth). This doesn't mean that if you are happy and eat a balanced diet of fruits and vegetables every day that you will stop male pattern baldness, but you might be slowing it down significantly compared to someone who is depressed and stressed and doesn't eat healthy.

As for ejaculation, the basis of my curiosity is focused around the question: What is healthy in terms of ejaculation habits? And how significant an impact could a healthy ejaculation habit have on male pattern baldness vs. an unhealthy one? Can it explain why among two brothers, one starts male pattern baldness at 23 and the other starts male pattern baldness at 34?

 

[anonymous]

If you have male pattern baldness, you're genetically destined to go bald. There's no correlation between ejaculation and hair loss, at all. I'm going bald not because I ejaculate, but because my dad has it, and he gave it to me. I know it's his genes because it's the same, exact, pattern. I'm going to go bald because of genetics regardless how much I jack it.

 

[optimystic]

If you have male pattern baldness, you're genetically destined to go bald. There's no correlation between ejaculation and hair loss, at all. I'm going bald not because I ejaculate, but because my dad has it, and he gave it to me. I know it's his genes because it's the same, exact, pattern. I'm going to go bald because of genetics regardless how much I jack it.

so far studies show you are much more likely to get it from your mother's side than your father's side, although there is an element of getting it from both.
anyway to me atleast it seems like there's more than just genetics to it. I have my dad's hair and his male pattern baldness pattern as well, but he didn't start having apparent balding till he was in his 40s.

 

[drgs]

Even if it was remotely true, one question remains: "So what?" Are you going to stop having sex for the rest of your life? This is and has always been ridiculous.

Sex a couple of times a week <> Masturbation 5 times a day

 

[Helios]

When you stop with masturbation you testosterone will rise till day 5, after that it will go down again. When you ejaculate your testosterone will drop for a short time. So i don't see the pattern of male pattern baldness. Also, you have to have sex or masturbate, to get rid of bad cells in your prostate and testes, otherwise you risk of prostate cancer will grow.

 

[drgs]

Who masturbates 5 times a day?!

Young people....
My record was 11 in one day (in the past)

 

[squeegee]

WOW! masturbation thread again. People masturbates all the times hair or not. Get a life people.

 

[optimystic]

lol everyone seems to have these different opinions and findings, yet no one seems to be citing any sources

the study that shows changes in testosterone after ejaculation did not study DHT levels and it targeted one age group (40+ i believe) and it did not follow up what a chronic change (>6 months-1 year) in frequency of masturbation would do.

I'm not talking about going cold turkey. Far from it. I'm just wondering if there is a healthy standard that might have the right effect in order not to exacerbate hair loss.

For Example: If someone did it 10-14x per week regularly, and then went down to 3-4x per week, IN 6 MONTHS OR MORE what effect would that have on his DHT levels and how would it affect his male pattern baldness? (i personally saw a +ve effect, it could be due to other factors or changes i made, or placebo)

Seriously though, I did not expect so much cynicism on this thread. I expected a couple "it's an old wives tale" responses, but I thot I'd have a couple more articulated answers, perhaps with some sources?

People on this forum try everything from applying minoxidil once a day and massaging the scalp (my regimen), to diet changes, to new shampoos, to hormone blockers with potential to affect libido, to questionable laser hair combs, to even some unapproved use of certain drugs (prostaglandin inhibitors) which can have unknown effects, and we try these methods for weeks, MONTHS, AND YEARS and we even allow for extra hair shedding and hair loss before we start to see results.

All this and when someone suggests that maybe, JUST MAYBE, when one ejaculates at a certain frequency and has a certain hormone cycle which, although NORMAL, might not be OPTIMAL in terms of trying to delay hair loss (Which is all anyone on this forum is trying to do), suddenly no one wants to look for an answer?
Don't you want to know if perhaps there IS an optimal frequency? And if there is, would you not be willing to adjust your frequency to the optimal level for as long as it takes to see some regrowth?

I've seen some of you guys joke that you would cut off one nut if it meant having a full head of hair. (And I fear some of you might have done it if not for the fact that you need full castration to cure baldness)
So if simply "optimizing" your "habits" for the rest of your life might give you a few more years of good hair, would you not do it?


By the way if you haven't been looking at the poll results, I have to point out that so far there is significant difference in both the mean and standard deviation of those who took the poll (those with male pattern baldness) vs. normal population.
A difference in the shape of the curve (distribution of values) alone is significant.

 

[Sparky4444]

Young people....
My record was 11 in one day (in the past)

that a boy! Or you could be a girl, which would be even better

 

[squeegee]

 

[drgs]

No.

Why exactly do you get angry and so eager to prove something -- when this topic comes up?

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lol everyone seems to have these different opinions and findings, yet no one seems to be citing any sources

the study that shows changes in testosterone after ejaculation did not study DHT levels and it targeted one age group (40+ i believe) and it did not follow up what a chronic change (>6 months-1 year) in frequency of masturbation would do.

I'm not talking about going cold turkey. Far from it. I'm just wondering if there is a healthy standard that might have the right effect in order not to exacerbate hair loss.

For Example: If someone did it 10-14x per week regularly, and then went down to 3-4x per week, IN 6 MONTHS OR MORE what effect would that have on his DHT levels and how would it affect his male pattern baldness? (i personally saw a +ve effect, it could be due to other factors or changes i made, or placebo)

Seriously though, I did not expect so much cynicism on this thread. I expected a couple "it's an old wives tale" responses, but I thot I'd have a couple more articulated answers, perhaps with some sources?

People on this forum try everything from applying minoxidil once a day and massaging the scalp (my regimen), to diet changes, to new shampoos, to hormone blockers with potential to affect libido, to questionable laser hair combs, to even some unapproved use of certain drugs (prostaglandin inhibitors) which can have unknown effects, and we try these methods for weeks, MONTHS, AND YEARS and we even allow for extra hair shedding and hair loss before we start to see results.

All this and when someone suggests that maybe, JUST MAYBE, when one ejaculates at a certain frequency and has a certain hormone cycle which, although NORMAL, might not be OPTIMAL in terms of trying to delay hair loss (Which is all anyone on this forum is trying to do), suddenly no one wants to look for an answer?
Don't you want to know if perhaps there IS an optimal frequency? And if there is, would you not be willing to adjust your frequency to the optimal level for as long as it takes to see some regrowth?

I've seen some of you guys joke that you would cut off one nut if it meant having a full head of hair. (And I fear some of you might have done it if not for the fact that you need full castration to cure baldness)
So if simply "optimizing" your "habits" for the rest of your life might give you a few more years of good hair, would you not do it?


By the way if you haven't been looking at the poll results, I have to point out that so far there is significant difference in both the mean and standard deviation of those who took the poll (those with male pattern baldness) vs. normal population.
A difference in the shape of the curve (distribution of values) alone is significant.

A know fact: long term abstinence (3 months+) brings adrenal/androstenolone to prepubertal levels (short term abstinence, a couple of weeks, or going from a lot of sex/masturbation to cold turkey leads to sexual frustration and is not good for hair loss), for men who are older than 30 yo there is even a chance to become impotent, with even longer abstinence periods testicles shrink in size (common to most animals, scientists use it to distinguish alpha from beta males in a pride of crocodiles, f. ex , not because they are just born with big balls, but from having sex)

The body adapts its adrenal levels -- its an evolutionary premise. The more sex, the hornier you are
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22684564
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/sex-addiction-new-study-says-it-might-just-be-a-case-of-too-much-libido/article13327662/

 

[optimystic]

No.

Fine. But just because you want to hide behind your genes doesn't mean others should.

Obesity is largely genetic as well. Two people even within the same family can eat the same food everyday, one gains a large amount of weight and the other remains fit.
But just because your genes point you in the direction of obesity, doesn't mean you have to be obese. Just means you have to work to be fit.
You have to suppress your appetite and make the extra effort to work out when you don't feel like it.

So what if it turns out, like obesity, that there are things you can do to slow down or maybe even stop male pattern baldness that require some lifestyle changes?
Just because YOU are not willing to make these lifestyle changes, does not mean other people are not allowed to look into it.

Pharmaceutical companies don't have any vested interest in seeing if there is a link between lifestyle changes and male pattern baldness.
And medical professionals are too busy conducting studies that seem important and look good on CVs (researching hair loss will not get you that cardiology fellowship).

If people who suffer from male pattern baldness want real answers on this issue, we have to take initiative.
If it turns out that male pattern baldness is not purely genetic, that there are lifestyle changes one can make to change the outcome, it would completely change perspective of the disease.

Hell, it might even make you content with being bald. If you find out that the reason you go bald at 28 and your neighbor goes bald at 38, is that you satisfy your sexual urges much more liberally than he does, you might say to yourself "yeah i'm fatter than he is, but that cake was worth it"

 

[Quantum Cat]

Obesity is largely genetic as well.

LOL not even close

that's an excuse that fat people make to justify their greed/laziness